New Beta Version - January 8th (1-8)

[Workerspam]

You could always invest in the shrine and monument. What you couldn't do is both plus a unit. And you still can't. The difference in versions is not transformative.

From what I can remember from my current game, you are correct. With this version you can buy a pathfinder and invest in only 1 building upon founding. You have to wait until turn 2 or 3 to invest in the second building.

Carthage is nuts right now but investing costs appear to be in flux; not much sense worrying about Carthage (other than to add it on the To Do list) until investing values are settled.

 

[infidel88]

Dido's strength has shifted entirely to her UA. She might as well not have a UB now. No one ever said she's weak.

This is actually a big problem. Past classical, Dido doesn't have UB, doesn't have UU and only "Resource diversity triples the Gold value of Trade Routes." part of UA remains. How many cities do you found in medieval or later? One? Two? That's like 500-1000 . Not a lot actually. Yes, I know early snowballing is huge, practically guaranteed religion due to buying shrines, lots of culture due to buying monument. Still - Carthage feels generic, their go-to policy tree has been struck by nerfhammer and if you believe Carthage is stronger now than before 8-1 version, that's just nuts.

Oh, Dido's events are utter crap too!

 

[Mad Madigan]

Carthage's whole point of power is their ability to expand incredibly quickly in the early game and build needed infrastructure faster than any other Civ. Yes, this means they get more "boring" once they're done settling and have their Great Cothon up, but that's just how it goes when all of your Unique power is concentrated in the Ancient/Classical eras. It would be nice if Carthage had a little something to keep them unique and flavorful in the late game, but I don't think it is that big of a problem. They are one of the Kings/Queens of Snowballing and it's fun that they can get great use of God of Commerce when other Civs really can't. If there was a flavorful way to make them more interesting (like as was done recently with Morocco) without shifting their power balance then great, but I don't have any ideas as to how to do that given that I don't really like to play as them (mostly because I feel like they pigeon-hole me into wanting to play Progress w/ God of Commerce regardless of my starting location and Civ neighbors).

*shrugs*

Ceterum censeo, Carthaginem delendam esse.

 

[Ziad]

No need to reinvent the wheel honestly. Carthage's quick and efficient expansionism is unique and fun. That's not the problem.

The issue here is that it all hinges on the gold settlement part of her UA. The rest of the kit feels tacked on.

The resource diversity adds some gold to your trade routes, but is it really that impactful?

The Great Cothon adds 2 TR, up from 1 TR from East India so it's no longer unique in that aspect.. It also adds some culture and production, but that's not really that unique by itself either. Think of it as being a lighthouse UB that adds +2 culture. That's just so.... flavorless.

I think we should look at the resource diversity so that it carries some more potential after the early game. Why does it only increase gold? Maybe add some culture?

Great Cothon should also be completely reworked. I think the GC should get some scaling on the number of trade units you can build. That way you're continuously rewarded for expansion, even when it falls off in efficiency later in the game. It would also encourage some warfare and conquest, which Carthage completely lacks right now after Ancient.

Alternatively, make Great Cothon buff Lighthouses/Harbors in a different manner than just a static amount of yields.

Of course, I also think the gold on settlement needs to be reduced. Power needs to be shifted away from the UA. Not too significantly, as it would hurt their gameplay, but just enough that it isn't the only flavor they have.

 

[pineappledan]

What if Cothon gave +25-50% or more to trade unit production? A small addition, but it would be in keeping with the Cothon being one of the earliest examples of a drydock.

So @Ziad, you are proposing some thing like +1 TR and +1 TR for every 4 cities?

 

[Ziad]

I don't know if that's all that helpful. There's only so many trade units that you need to have.

 

[Stalker0]

I really don't think Carthage needs a bump to the UB. An extra TR is still an extra TR, you get a nice production bonus to all of your coastal cities through harbors (and if your carthage it will probably be most of them).

Sure its not the coolest building in the world...but its not needed. Carthage has a crazy amazing early game, it doesn't need more.

 

[Ziad]

What if Cothon gave +25-50% or more to trade unit production? A small addition, but it would be in keeping with the Cothon being one of the earliest examples of a drydock.

So @Ziad, you are proposing some thing like +1 TR and +1 TR for every 4 cities?

Well maybe not 4, but something along those lines.

 

[Txurce]

I agree with Workerspam that Carthage is not worth worrying about until the new changes settle, but regardless, the Carthage conversation (fun as they always are) is derailing the thread.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Maybe just allow the Great Cothon to boost all Harbors with an additional +10% production of naval units on top of its current unique bonuses?

Or maybe something like Ottoman's UB: Replace the +2 Culture on Lighthouses to "When you construct a Naval Unit in this city, gain 20% of its Production as Culture".

That way it scales with how many ships you actually build and scales better into the late game.

Anyway, sorry for the further derailment...

 

[Moi Magnus]

So you need to install this and only this to play with this mod? Doesnt seem to appear in my mods. Should I unsuncribe all other mods from steam and try only this with automatic installer?

I have restarted game

If you have subsribe to "More Luxuries" or to "Community Patch", unsubscribe. However, you should not need to unsubscribe to the other mods.

First, find your MODS folder (in the files of Civilization V). You should find in this folder all your usual mods.

Run the auto-installer. When it is done, check into the MODS folder that you have VP. You should find 6 mods, with number (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), and either (6a), (6b), (6c) depending on you options.

1) If you don't find those mods in the MODS folder, then it mean that during the installation, you selected the wrong folder. (At some point, the auto-installer ask you to give the position of the MODS folder, and you selected the wrong folder)

2) You find those mods in the MODS folder, together with your usual mods. Then run Civ V and you should be able to enable them. If not, I don't know what is happening.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Carthage can be played in a number of ways, it's just that some are more optimal, as is with most civs. Aggressive Carthage progress expansion is the best option, but its UU and UA also give you the option of a very efficient/strong early warmonger start (great early UU - check; lots of early money -> lots of units/military infrastructure - check; almost guaranteed religion&city connections (no unhappiness from disconnect) -> great for warmongering with the right founder/follower beliefs).

Possibility to go strong with either Progress or Authority while having a religion really opens up the selection of medieval and industrial era policies, and you can leverage your early game advantages for basically all victory conditions.

Great Cothon could perhaps use with an extra couple of gold per TR to make up from going from 2 to 1 extra TR, but I wouldn't buff it any harder. Carthage is great, a fun civ offering various paths to success and a top tier human and AI civ.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

What if Cothon gave +25-50% or more to trade unit production? A small addition, but it would be in keeping with the Cothon being one of the earliest examples of a drydock.

So @Ziad, you are proposing some thing like +1 TR and +1 TR for every 4 cities?

I suggest a population based system for all nations, but Gazebo declined due to balance issues by tourismn from traderoutes, so i dont think, this will happen. Instead, I would play with GPTI, like "+2 gold for every trade route for every town you own, maximum of 20" or something like this.

 

[pineappledan]

Is anyone noticing the Moroccan AI is being weird? I played a game as Aztec and got to the renaissance last night. Morocco had only built walls in 2 of its 5 cities by that time. I took their cities in 2 turns, but I imagine they must have been crushed under crime unhappiness anyways

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I'm never sure when to chop or when to farm, and this patch has confounded my issues. Curse you, Lone Gazebo.

Mostly I just want the latest version of the mod at the top of the forum, though.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm never sure when to chop or when to farm, and this patch has confounded my issues. Curse you, Lone Gazebo.

Mostly I just want the latest version of the mod at the top of the forum, though.

I'll only do that when it's not a beta.

G

 

[ridjack]

Is anyone else noticing the AI overwhelmingly picking Progress and also overwhelmingly ignoring Tradition entirely?

 

[ElliotS]

Is anyone else noticing the AI overwhelmingly picking Progress and also overwhelmingly ignoring Tradition entirely?

Not me.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm very curious to see if the tactical AI fixes are working. One of them was pretty funny...a good old fashion > < switch that was keeping the AI from thinking it could attack a city unless it couldn't do enough damage to siege it. Should see more persistent AI sieges now.

G

 

[ridjack]

I'm very curious to see if the tactical AI fixes are working. One of them was pretty funny...a good old fashion > < switch that was keeping the AI from thinking it could attack a city unless it couldn't do enough damage to siege it. Should see more persistent AI sieges now.

G

I definitely just felt the change in my most recent game. Given that war is my only claim to fame in Civ, it's been a very long time since I've felt remotely threatened in a war against Civ AI. Enough so that I've clearly gotten way too lax... I had to fight India's Horsemen, Skirmishers and Catapults with Warriors, Archers and no city walls. I was still able to beat him back badly enough that the war was declared a victory for me, but I genuinely thought I was going to lose a city (and I probably would have if he had pressed the attack instead of offering the treaty.)

I love it! My sadistic little warmonger heart is eager to have some actual fights again.