New Beta Version - March 1st (3/1)

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On a quick glance:

  • Skirmishers look somewhat boring now with only 1 range. Still need to playtest them, though. I might later change them to 5 movement myself and hide "Screw you, Funak!" somewhere in the code :p Just kidding! :lol:
  • Typo in the pedia text for special forces: says paradrop range 5 when it's actually 9.
  • Paratroopers look more advanced than special forces, you may want to switch the models.
  • Should the instant science from council scale with era? I don't know, but it's sure worth thinking about it.
  • It's probably almost impossible to get 3 policies before unlocking stonehenge through techs - is this intended?
 
Skirmishers look somewhat boring now with only 1 range. Still need to playtest them, though. I might later change them to 5 movement myself and hide "Screw you, Funak!" somewhere in the code :p Just kidding! :lol:
Why would that screw me? I suggested increasing the movement to 5 myself. As they are I think they have slightly too low CS/RCS I'm also not sure they still need the combat penalty vs cities.
 
Why would that screw me? I suggested increasing the movement to 5 myself. As they are I think they have slightly too low CS/RCS I'm also not sure they still need the combat penalty vs cities.

Just a joke! :lol: I just blame you a tiny bit for the recent nerf of my favourite unit ;) No offense!
 
  • Bugs
  • New
  • General Balance
  • Big Stuff
  • Religion
  • Tech Tree
  • Units
  • Buildings

Cheers,
G

Which of these sections affect the CP and which only affect the CBP?
 
Update:

Insert this line into your CBP to fix Helicopter Gunships not being able to attack!

Code:
	UPDATE Units SET Range = '1' WHERE Type = 'UNIT_HELICOPTER_GUNSHIP' AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM COMMUNITY WHERE Type='COMMUNITY_CORE_BALANCE_UNITS' AND Value= 1 );

Put it in Balance Changes/Units/MountedUnits.sql

Cheers,
G
 
My ICS strategy has obsoleted. :sad: Lack of science per pop and gold deflict severely hinders my teching. When they are producing embassies in 250AD, I'm stuck at military tradition with 0 beaker.

To be honest, I think this works fine. No more no-brainer ICS. :goodjob:
 
My ICS strategy has obsoleted. :sad: Lack of science per pop and gold deflict severely hinders my teching. When they are producing embassies in 250AD, I'm stuck at military tradition with 0 beaker.

To be honest, I think this works fine. No more no-brainer ICS. :goodjob:

Interesting. I thought the culture & science penalty-decreases for number of cities would make ICS a bit easier. Is the AI expanding their land area slower or faster in this patch?
 
Oh sweet, I always wanted to see Zeppelins in Civ V! :D:D:D
All of these changes seem pretty great, especially attaching a new building to the wheel to make it more desirable (though I stand by my belief that Assyria should have a hard limit on it's exp, but whatevs.)
 
Oh sweet, I always wanted to see Zeppelins in Civ V! :D:D:D
All of these changes seem pretty great, especially attaching a new building to the wheel to make it more desirable (though I stand by my belief that Assyria should have a hard limit on it's exp, but whatevs.)

We'll see about Assyria, may need a cap of 30 or 45 XP.

Is this intentional? (Berserker)

I'll bump it up a bit, probably to 18 or 20. Some of the unit values will shake out a bit once people use them. Ideally the Berserker should be a fast-attack unit that targets wounded/weaker units and pillages its way to freedom.

G
 
My ICS strategy has obsoleted. :sad: Lack of science per pop and gold deflict severely hinders my teching. When they are producing embassies in 250AD, I'm stuck at military tradition with 0 beaker.

To be honest, I think this works fine. No more no-brainer ICS. :goodjob:

ICS is stronger than ever, Liberty and the city-connections pantheon means 4 free science per city, which is enough to cover the cost of ICS. Following it up with either Piety or Aesthetics covers you for the rest of the game.
 
This patch is actually bigger than I thought. Perhaps just as big as the change in science mechanics are the changes to units' combat strengths. Combat strengths have been reduced across the board. I haven't completely played through it yet, but I'm already seeing some potential problems:

-Warriors now have 6 strength while scouts still have 5. Warriors are even more useless now when they're nearly even in terms of strength.

-Archer RCS reduced to 5, but is still 33% more expensive than the scout or warrior.

-Chariot Archers and War Chariots cannot move after attacking, so they end up right next to their targets. They presumably turn into easy meal afterwards.

-I'm worried a bit about the balance between Trireme (10) and Dromon (15/5) as the latter can still attack land units and might be overall more useful.

-Spearmen (10) and Pikemen (15) are now even weaker relative to the units they supposedly counter: Horsemen (15), Knights (25).

-Swordsman (15) a bit stronger but Longswordsman (20) a bit weaker. The slight buff to the swordsman is very welcome, allowing it to finally be a match with the horseman. Previously, I never built swordsmen if I could just build horsemen and save the iron for siege units. It was also unlocked later, slower, and weaker.

-Where does the weaker Longswordsman fit in all this? Its only advantages against the Knight are terrain bonuses and unpenalized city attacks. With full terain advantages (Hill+Forest), it gets 27 CS, which the Knight can easily match if it gets Shock I. Besides that, any combat bonus the Knight gets is more significant thanks to its higher base CS. It's therefore incorrect to say that Longswordsmen are stronger defensively. I am positive that Knights and Knight UU's are overpowered this beta. As for the city attacks, iron is better spent on siege units.

-The Danish Berserker only has 16 CS, quite noticeably less than its non-unique counterpart.

-The drop in Greece's and Persia's power is even more noticeable now in the Medieval era. It's already bad that their Pikemen (upgraded Hoplites and Immortals) are met with Knights and Longswordsmen, so it's worse with the even lower strength ratios.

-I'm worried about the Siege Units' higher CS than regular ranged units. The latter might lose its niche.

-Helicopter Gunships are absolutely overpowered, with their ranged CS stronger than contemporary tank and infantry CS, plus their bonus against tanks, plus their superior mobility.

-Are city strengths adjusted for the lower overall unit strengths?
 
Just an example of the ancient wonders being unlocked without the required tech or 3 social politics.



After messing about, it seems that the Cultural Diversity mod together with Exploration Continued Expanded is causing the issue.



Tried five times with both, and it kept happening - Celts and Byzantium.

Individual, no issue 4/5 times. One crash going into the city screen.
 
That's what I'm often wondering too! ;)

Unfortunately, G has yet to answer my inquiry :( As a CP user, I’d like to know which changes I should be looking out for and which ones I can ignore.
 
This patch is actually bigger than I thought. Perhaps just as big as the change in science mechanics are the changes to units' combat strengths. Combat strengths have been reduced across the board. I haven't completely played through it yet, but I'm already seeing some potential problems:
I think the CS changes are messed up as well, but some of the things you say just don't add up.

-Warriors now have 6 strength while scouts still have 5. Warriors are even more useless now when they're nearly even in terms of strength.

-Archer RCS reduced to 5, but is still 33% more expensive than the scout or warrior.
So, the warrior is useless, but the only other unit of comparable level is also useless? Isn't that what's called balance? Or are you comparing the warrior to the scout?

-Spearmen (10) and Pikemen (15) are now even weaker relative to the units they supposedly counter: Horsemen (15), Knights (25).
They are not supposed to counter them. Spearmen and Pikemen are generic foot-soldiers without resource-costs, they aren't supposed to counter anything.

-Swordsman (15) a bit stronger but Longswordsman (20) a bit weaker. The slight buff to the swordsman is very welcome, allowing it to finally be a match with the horseman. Previously, I never built swordsmen if I could just build horsemen and save the iron for siege units. It was also unlocked later, slower, and weaker.
Yeah, this actually makes very little sense to me.

-Where does the weaker Longswordsman fit in all this? Its only advantages against the Knight are terrain bonuses and unpenalized city attacks. With full terain advantages (Hill+Forest), it gets 27 CS, which the Knight can easily match if it gets Shock I. Besides that, any combat bonus the Knight gets is more significant thanks to its higher base CS. It's therefore incorrect to say that Longswordsmen are stronger defensively. I am positive that Knights and Knight UU's are overpowered this beta. As for the city attacks, iron is better spent on siege units.

-The Danish Berserker only has 16 CS, quite noticeably less than its non-unique counterpart.

-The drop in Greece's and Persia's power is even more noticeable now in the Medieval era. It's already bad that their Pikemen (upgraded Hoplites and Immortals) are met with Knights and Longswordsmen, so it's worse with the even lower strength ratios.
This is the exact reason why the weaker long-swords fit in, it is however really weird that both the regular swords and the knights got buffed.
With the overall weaker units (aside from the sword and the knight) I think the unique spears fare better now.
Danish Berserkers got gutted for no good reason at all.

-I'm worried about the Siege Units' higher CS than regular ranged units. The latter might lose its niche.
I haven't checked the actual numbers on the siege units ingame but as long as they need to set up to attack and cost resources, there is still room for archers, especially with the horse-archers getting their ranged reduced.


This patch have way too much going on, the science-rework by itself is enough of a change. But the questionable CS re-distribution the really weird scout-change and the lowered faith of about half the pantheons is a bit too much.


I mean just the pantheon change alone, some of the weakest pantheons got gutted while some of the absolute strongest one went untouched, makes this really hard to actually judge.
 
Unfortunately, G has yet to answer my inquiry :( As a CP user, I’d like to know which changes I should be looking out for and which ones I can ignore.

I'm in the same boat! :)

Also I hope that there will be a version of C4DF that only requires the CP soon!
 
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