New Beta Version - March 1st (3/1)

[Funak]

Elaborate? The absence of specifics is not terribly useful.

I wasn't trying to be useful, but sure, whatever.

Pantheons that were in the upper half of the pack and remain unchanged:
God of the Expanse
God of the Open Sky
Goddess of Love
Goddess of Purity
Goddess of Renewal
Goddess of the Hunt


Pantheons that were always bad, and now got worse:
Goddess of Springtime
Ancestor Worship


Pantheons that are complicated and require separate explanations:
God of Wealth - This belief is still as good as ever, the removal of the market kinda hurts it, but for example as the Ottomans it's still crazy.
Goddess of Wisdom - This belief got slightly nerfed because of how total science works, but on the other hand it adds science to cities, which is a lot more valuable now. Tough to say but the games I've tried this one so far I've gotten a guaranteed religion.
God of Commerce - This belief feels even more snowbally than it already was, picking it as Askia, Dido or Hiawatha is going to double your science output out. On the other hand for other civs it is a lot less valuable, still it feels like a whole lot of science for the early game.

 

[Bromar1]

Not sure if this is just me, but all buildings are showing 66% capture change in the tooltip.

 

[Strigvir]

Well, it means the building has 66% chance to retain after capturing a city.

 

[Kolaris]

Tech cost balance (this is a known concern – AI sometimes rockets into Modern Era by 1800, other times it doesn't. This needs looking at)

I know you're talking about the relative cost of eras, but on a semi-related note the vanilla turns-to-years scaling for Marathon isn't very good. The 17-20th centuries go by too quickly, and then the 21st century slows to a snails pace.

Here's a 1600 turn version where each era gets 20 turns per tech for averages of 180-200 turns per era. Much slower 20th century, which is imo fitting since it contained ~2 "eras" historically.

Spoiler :

	<GameSpeed_Turns>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>180</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>200</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>120</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>100</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>60</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>260</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>24</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>220</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>12</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>100</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>6</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>120</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<GameSpeedType>GAMESPEED_MARATHON</GameSpeedType>
			<MonthIncrement>3</MonthIncrement>
			<TurnsPerIncrement>600</TurnsPerIncrement>
		</Row>
	</GameSpeed_Turns>

 

[Gazebo]

I wasn't trying to be useful, but sure, whatever.

Pantheons that were in the upper half of the pack and remain unchanged:
God of the Expanse
God of the Open Sky
Goddess of Love
Goddess of Purity
Goddess of Renewal
Goddess of the Hunt


Pantheons that were always bad, and now got worse:
Goddess of Springtime
Ancestor Worship


Pantheons that are complicated and require separate explanations:
God of Wealth - This belief is still as good as ever, the removal of the market kinda hurts it, but for example as the Ottomans it's still crazy.
Goddess of Wisdom - This belief got slightly nerfed because of how total science works, but on the other hand it adds science to cities, which is a lot more valuable now. Tough to say but the games I've tried this one so far I've gotten a guaranteed religion.
God of Commerce - This belief feels even more snowbally than it already was, picking it as Askia, Dido or Hiawatha is going to double your science output out. On the other hand for other civs it is a lot less valuable, still it feels like a whole lot of science for the early game.

I appreciate the feedback, though I am less than pleased that I'm being accused of 'gutting' pantheons when the ones that were primarily cut were those you listed as being 'top-tier.' Seems like my balance was on point.

G

 

[ofu]

It's so good to see you back. After install the "Community Patch Project.exe". Should I download the "(1a) Community Patch - C4DF Addon.zip" and extract the "(1a) Community Patch - C4DF Addon" into the mod folder? And load the (1),(1a)at the same time after launch the game?

 

[Funak]

I appreciate the feedback, though I am less than pleased that I'm being accused of 'gutting' pantheons when the ones that were primarily cut were those you listed as being 'top-tier.' Seems like my balance was on point.

Yeah I had misread a few of them, it was more a case of some of the strongest ones remaining unchanged rather than gutting.
That wasn't very clear I'll try to explain.

The old 'average powerlevel' of the pantheons were rather high, and I mistook just how much the 'average powerlevel' had shrunk. So it was more of a case of some pantheons being obscenely powerful rather than half of them being gutted (end result is really the same, but I should balance my assessment of the new average rather than the old one)

It's so good to see you back. After install the "Community Patch Project.exe". Should I download the "(1a) Community Patch - C4DF Addon.zip" and extract the "(1a) Community Patch - C4DF Addon" into the mod folder? And load the (1),(1a)at the same time after launch the game?

No, the Installer does everything for you, those other things are just for manual installation

 

[Bromar1]

Science from shrines is a cool idea but it really flops with global yields because those aren't taken into account for the percentage.

 

[notque]

Is there a manual fix at this point for the wonders issue? I started a random roll game with Egypt and it's a complete mess due to the wonders thing.

I'm happy to just make a manual edit if you can tell me where it is to do it.

Edit: Oh wait is this intended? So I don't even need the tech to build a wonder if I have the number of policies? That just seems odd, and weird.

Okay, this is as intended. You don't need the tech. Well, this requires a lot of different thinking then, because generally I would build a wonder that I think I could get. Now I have almost no idea, and need to manually sit here and go over the wonders, and their unlocks to try and figure out how likely it is I can build it...

And I'm Egypt, with the pantheon for building wonders, and I haven't gotten any. And I have even held back expanding to do it. This is just awkward at the moment, but maybe it will make sense. I'll go some more turns, I'm so confused at the moment.

Edit 2: I'm sitting here, and I can't even decide what to tech to. You might as well remove the wonders from the tech list, because they are irrelevant for me making a decision as to what to tech for.

Edit 3: Yep, I've lost every wonder. Okay then, Time to stop bothering with them entirely and just focus on trying to save this game. Yuck.

 

[Gazebo]

Is there a manual fix at this point for the wonders issue? I started a random roll game with Egypt and it's a complete mess due to the wonders thing.

I'm happy to just make a manual edit if you can tell me where it is to do it.

Edit: Oh wait is this intended? So I don't even need the tech to build a wonder if I have the number of policies? That just seems odd, and weird.

Okay, this is as intended. You don't need the tech. Well, this requires a lot of different thinking then, because generally I would build a wonder that I think I could get. Now I have almost no idea, and need to manually sit here and go over the wonders, and their unlocks to try and figure out how likely it is I can build it...

And I'm Egypt, with the pantheon for building wonders, and I haven't gotten any. And I have even held back expanding to do it. This is just awkward at the moment, but maybe it will make sense. I'll go some more turns, I'm so confused at the moment.

Edit 2: I'm sitting here, and I can't even decide what to tech to. You might as well remove the wonders from the tech list, because they are irrelevant for me making a decision as to what to tech for.

Edit 3: Yep, I've lost every wonder. Okay then, Time to stop bothering with them entirely and just focus on trying to save this game. Yuck.

Haha. I'm not sure what the problem is! There's a compatibility issue with JFD's mods, but otherwise it is working as intended. Welcome to the future!

That said, the # of policies required can and will probably shift based on feedback. But since it's only been a day, we're not at a good place to talk about that yet.
G

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah I had misread a few of them, it was more a case of some of the strongest ones remaining unchanged rather than gutting.
That wasn't very clear I'll try to explain.

The old 'average powerlevel' of the pantheons were rather high, and I mistook just how much the 'average powerlevel' had shrunk. So it was more of a case of some pantheons being obscenely powerful rather than half of them being gutted (end result is really the same, but I should balance my assessment of the new average rather than the old one)

Fair enough. Which ones are we looking at?

 

[notque]

Haha. I'm not sure what the problem is! There's a compatibility issue with JFD's mods, but otherwise it is working as intended. Welcome to the future!

That said, the # of policies required can and will probably shift based on feedback. But since it's only been a day, we're not at a good place to talk about that yet.
G

I am only using the base stuff, so it's working as intended. Which means that all Civs essentially unlock a group of wonders at the same time.

I'm even playing below my normal level. I play Deity on the base game, and I play King on CBP beta just to try things out. But Egypt + Wonder Pantheon + A lot of Silver Mines were not enough to score even 1 wonder. They all just flew off the board.

I mean, maybe that's a better consequence. There's a bit too much of wonders going to the few, so maybe that's a good thing. But I'm certainly gobsmacked how this game has played out so far.

Edit: Just going to start a new game, and play anyone but Egypt. I have no interest going down that route again at the moment.

Edit 2: Of course I did random, and rolled Egypt... Tis the life.

Edit 3: allright, let's just random roll and twitch stream the play through. Here goes nothing.

 

[Guynemer]

FYI, I initially had some random crashes with this build. I disabled my other mods (Infoaddict and Quick Turns), and the crashes resolved. Previous builds did not crash with these mods.

 

[Funak]

Fair enough. Which ones are we looking at?

Pantheons that were in the upper half of the pack and remain unchanged:
God of the Expanse
God of the Open Sky
Goddess of Love
Goddess of Purity
Goddess of Renewal
Goddess of the Hunt


Pantheons that were always bad, and now got worse:
Goddess of Springtime
Ancestor Worship

These are probably a good start.

I think Ancestor Worship could either go back to what it was pre-change, or we'll have to think of something else for it, because that belief is kinda underwhelming.
Goddess of Springtime is kinda hard to balance, Markets got a lot worse and the plantation-aspect of it have always been kinda underwhelming. Big problem is that you can't really bump the plantations up to +2 faith as that doesn't fit very well with the model, maybe buff the bonus to markets? Let markets add +2c +1f or something?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I can keep Bullying Tyre for infinite Production.

Even at -60 Influence cause too much power apparently. I'm not even that strong in Military. I just have 4H'Wachas nearby and like 2 Lancers parked near my cities..

 

[Strigvir]

What is the point of a "civilian" penalty? I knew it would derp somewhere and here it is. He literally ran with a worker unguarded up to my border and got mad for it. The penalty for one worker is higher than for a denouncement.

 

[tompliss]

Goddess of Springtime is kinda hard to balance, Markets got a lot worse and the plantation-aspect of it have always been kinda underwhelming. Big problem is that you can't really bump the plantations up to +2 faith as that doesn't fit very well with the model, maybe buff the bonus to markets? Let markets add +2c +1f or something?

Maybe add an extra gold or culture to the plantations ?
After all, they come pretty late (comparing to other improvements), especially when they need forest/jungle razing.

 

[IcyAngel]

What is the point of a "civilian" penalty? I knew it would derp somewhere and here it is. He literally ran with a worker unguarded up to my border and got mad for it. The penalty for one worker is higher than for a denouncement.

It's the price we have to pay to punish the game-breaking early worker/settler stealing.

You could simply have let the worker pass by. In real life, during war, would you systematically kill/capture any civilian that came into your sight?

 

[ExpiredReign]

Was the city range limit extended in this beta?

I was trying to liberate a CS that fell to barbarians and the city was bombarding my units resting in the 3rd ring from it.

 

[Lynnes]

Will you also include the new VMC v73 into the next version?