New Beta Version - November 9th (11-9)

[Stalker0]

Because the flanking bonus modifier affects the base value of the flanking value (which is now a delta of friendly - enemy units).

Again, would love an example. Can you show us how the math works that turned 10% into 16.48%.

 

[pineappledan]

Just installed the mod. I can't find GAMEEVENT_ConquerorValidBuilding.

Can you say what file it's in? If I am understanding this correctly, I need to list all the buildings Rome shouldn't be able to capture in a lua table? Does this lua trigger once at game startup, every time a city is conquered by anyone, or just by Rome?

 

[chicorbeef]

Again, would love an example. Can you show us how the math works that turned 10% into 16.48%.

This is the explanation that G gave me in Github:

So in your case, 5 (the base value, ignore that 15_ + 3 = 8;

8 * 2 = 16

I don't know why there is a .48, but it is ultimately innocuous, as the real function rounds down. @ilteroi can correct me if I'm wrong.

If you look in the civilopedia the Shock flank attack is indeed +3%.

 

[nekokon]

I'm not sure if the new flanking mechanic a good choice design wise. What's the purpose of this change (except for being a bit more realistic) ?
The old flanking favors good maneuver (when attacking) and strategic unit placement (when defending) which would work even with a smaller number of units, while the new flanking simply favors more units to fill in the blank rank formation style to avoid being exposed. The main battlefield would simply become a slug fest because of the lack of bonus dmg, and flank attack would only be useful when sniping lone unit. Shock promotions are completely useless for infantry units now.

 

[Gazebo]

This is the explanation that G gave me in Github:

If you look in the civilopedia the Shock flank attack is indeed +3%.

The civilopedia automatically adds %, in reality it is just 3 added on to the base define of 5. I think @Infixo added all that stuff to the civpedia, it doesn't check what a value does it just outputs table entries.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Just installed the mod. I can't find GAMEEVENT_ConquerorValidBuilding.

Can you say what file it's in? If I am understanding this correctly, I need to list all the buildings Rome shouldn't be able to capture in a lua table? Does this lua trigger once at game startup, every time a city is conquered by anyone, or just by Rome?

It is in CvLuaCity - it isn't a lua function, but rather a game event hook - you'd need to set up a hook and, if the three values (player, cityID, and builidngID) are all valid, it blocks the building from being conquered by Rome.

Others like @Enginseer can explain lua hooks better than I.

G

 

[Gazebo]

I'm not sure if the new flanking mechanic a good choice design wise. What's the purpose of this change (except for being a bit more realistic) ?
The old flanking favors good maneuver (when attacking) and strategic unit placement (when defending) which would work even with a smaller number of units, while the new flanking simply favors more units to fill in the blank rank formation style to avoid being exposed. The main battlefield would simply become a slug fest because of the lack of bonus dmg, and flank attack would only be useful when sniping lone unit. Shock promotions are completely useless for infantry units now.

It benefits the AI, and closes a weird loophole in which you got a flanking bonus for attacking players when they weren't technically flanked. Made alpha strikes far stronger.

G

 

[ElliotS]

Mongols - now get a large lump yield based on the type of CS conquered when they conquer a CS. Is 250% the value of the heavy tribute of that CS at the moment of capture, scaling with era. Big beefy yields.

Did you remove the Mongol specific cooldown?

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Okay, so, the flanking modifier is now defined in absolute terms. Semantics aren't different, just the interface from the modding side - co-ordination of GC.flanking and the promotions has to be done manually. Okay. It's now a bonus- a "Bonus Per Adjacent Friend". It's the same kind of thing as the GC define.

You've asked about tuning the numbers. Seeing the formula, the number is just 2.5% per promotion which was originally "25% of flanking bonus", since the GC define was 10. Nerfing flanking to 5, the number should be 1.25%. Buffing the flanking promotions separately, well... how strong is it supposed to be to have flanking training? It should be some nice round eighth of a ten. 16.48 does not look right, it don't matter the balance.

I'm guessing now the flanking loophole was any situation of surrounding a hex, but the attacker is in an ambuscade of their own. Formerly, these would give both flanking bonus to attacker and defender, which of course magnifies the base strength disparities of the combatants. Now with a single-payout function, inferior units can improve their situation by reducing multipliers applied to the stronger CS value. I don't know if any of this addresses alpha strikes... a moment where a melee crushes, takes ground, and then flanks into several strong slams is still going to happen.

And dear God, do I want to know why this function is a member of CvPlot ? Saxony lemons, that's gross.

 

[pineappledan]

It is in CvLuaCity - it isn't a lua function, but rather a game event hook - you'd need to set up a hook and, if the three values (player, cityID, and builidngID) are all valid, it blocks the building from being conquered by Rome.

Hm... still having trouble locating it, but it's late. Doesn't look too hard, but if I need help then hopefully I can ask nicely

 

[ryanmusante]

These are only backups (*.bak) and not needed, right?

Delete 12.3kB /home/ryan/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/(3) CSD for CBP/Promotions/Promotions.xml.bak
Delete 4.1kB /home/ryan/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/(3) CSD for CBP/Improvements/ImprovementText.xml.bak
Delete 8.2kB /home/ryan/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/(3) CSD for CBP/DLL/AddDefines.sql.bak
Delete 24.6kB /home/ryan/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/(3) CSD for CBP/World Congress/IdeologyChanges.sql.bak
Delete 4.1kB /home/ryan/Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/(3) CSD for CBP/Units/UnitAI.xml.bak

Same for EUI (*.bak)?

Delete 45.1kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/LeaderHead/LeaderHeadRoot.lua.bak
Delete 36.9kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/CityView/CityView.xml.bak
Delete 36.9kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/CityView/CityView_small.xml.bak
Delete 8.2kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/Core/EUI_context.lua.bak
Delete 65.5kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/CityBanners/CityBannerManager.lua.bak
Delete 20.5kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/CityBanners/CityBannerManager.xml.bak
Delete 41kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/UnitFlagManager/UnitFlagManager.lua.bak
Delete 12.3kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/UnitFlagManager/UnitFlagManager.xml.bak
Delete 41kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/Improvements/WorldView.lua.bak
Delete 73.7kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/NotificationPanel/NotificationPanel.lua.bak
Delete 118.8kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/NotificationPanel/NotificationPanel.xml.bak
Delete 20.5kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/UnitPanel/UnitPanel.xml.bak
Delete 20.5kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/UnitPanel/UnitPanel_small.xml.bak
Delete 8.2kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/PlotHelp/PlotHelpManager.xml.bak
Delete 16.4kB /home/ryan/.oldsteam/steamapps/common/Sid Meier's Civilization V/Assets/DLC/UI_bc1/TopPanel/TopPanel.xml.bak

 

[ilteroi]

missing from the changelog:

• units with noDefensiveBonus flag still profit from forts & citadels
• walls etc don't count against units with ignoreBuildingDefense flag. default promotions on cannon etc should have been changed to compensate this

 

[CppMaster]

I still don't get that new flanking system. Could someone make a guide with examples on images and comparison to the old system? That would be really helpful.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

"Randomness" issues from the last beta that was on Github is being persistant.

Spoiler :

There were actually a number of topics removed without being resolved. It would be nice if at least a reason was given (like addressed in next version), otherwise it seems like we're uploading bugs for nothing

 

[ilteroi]

I still don't get that new flanking system. Could someone make a guide with examples on images and comparison to the old system? That would be really helpful.

easy. the old code was plain broken. didn't work and wasn't aligned with what the combat preview was showing.

now the new system: count the number of friendly units around the defender. subtract the number of enemy units around the attacker. multiply by your flankimg bonus (base + promotions). if positive the attacker gets the bonus. if negative the defender gets the bonus. like before this applies to melee combat only.

 

[saamohod]

How comes the bonus versus barbarians is 63% according to combat widow, while the promotions itself says it is 33%?

 

[saamohod]

View attachment 508131

NVM I see it. Fixed and hotfixed.

This issue is still there. When I started a game the icon was ok, but when I exited and loaded the save, I got the "ICON_CITIZEN" thing.

 

[YukiN]

How comes the bonus versus barbarians is 63% according to combat widow, while the promotions itself says it is 33%?

Probably getting +30% from difficulty modifier.

 

[matlajs]

That yields on CS capture work just for a first time of capture of that particular CS?

 

[tu_79]

easy. the old code was plain broken. didn't work and wasn't aligned with what the combat preview was showing.

now the new system: count the number of friendly units around the defender. subtract the number of enemy units around the attacker. multiply by your flankimg bonus (base + promotions). if positive the attacker gets the bonus. if negative the defender gets the bonus. like before this applies to melee combat only.

So now it wad s.