New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[Virdrago]

Power of Beer's gonna kill me. I'm finishing a Turkish 3000BC start with a virtual UHV of 1610 - I just haven't been home in three days to complete it.

You guys are getting more impressive every time I check this thread. I still don't know how I still have a high score on here (for now).

 

[Wessel V1]

AP, I think that is the key for a BC victory. Someone wants to try my Egypt game? I think 400 or even 500 BC is very possible, but I don't have the skills to improve the date very much myself.

 

[TDK]

I replayed my Khmer game without moving into Anatolia. I instead founded Harihalaya with Wheat, Sheep, Copper, Iron to have a good missionary city closer to Russia. I was also planning on gifting this city to Turkey in the hope of converting them to Buddhism but in this case that wasn't necessary because I win before they spawn.

I got a GSpy as my first gp after seeing what they can do in the last game. It's extremely powerful in certain situations, in this game with a return of more than 3 times what other gp's would be able to bulb.

Arabia attacked Harihalaya in the last turn and China collapsed.

I had the time to finish the game. Standard expansion of cities with Granary, Baray etc. and Hanoi for the expansion in core area. My final stability was -21 in 1450AD.

 

[TDK]

Both were running Theocracy, but that didn't matter, I just gifted the missionaries and they used them on their biggest cities.

Wow, I didn't even think of gifting the missionaries, that could really improve a Khmer game as the bottleneck is the max 3 missionaries total on board and in production.

Can they spread a non-state religion under Theocracy?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yes, you can spread religion by gifting your missionary to an AI in theocracy, but the AI will usually spread it to a city that already has a religion (i.e. it won't use the missionary on a pristine city until all cities have religion).

 

[Tigranes]

I would assume 5000 gold is trivial to keep until 1500 AD even if I collapse, which is unlikely. Please let me know if someone disagrees.

Spoiler :

Nidaros, Lulea and capital of Denmark with the native spelling making it impossible to remember . Sailed with all my troops to Mediterranean, 2 Galleys returned back for Leif Ericson's voyage. Remaining Galley helped my marauders to sack Tripoli, Benghazi and Alexandria. I incline to believe that Alexandria is the key to any victory for 600 AD start . All my Great People came from that city (one of them Merchant!). I bulbed Optics and was mastering seas uncontested for 100-150 years.

As a side remark, I am not sure why did Rhye include Library for 600 AD start . During Amr ibn al 'Aas conquest of Alexandria in 642 AD Arabs just got rid of the remaining books, the Library itself was burned down many years ago in 273 AD by Emperor Aurelian. While some books have been preserved by 600 AD, Great Library was long a thing from the past, certainly no free scientists there . In contrast, the Great Lighthouse stood until 14th century, when two earthquakes (in 1303 and 1323) reduced building to the ruins.


For my 1st UHV I have closely followed strategy described here except that I managed to chop 3 Settlers in 20 turns, so I could found Copenhagen with my third Settler, instead of saving him for the America.
This time Vinland was founded 940 AD, I spent extra 3 turns preparing my fleet for the war with England.

No other nation in Europe produces so many ships so early, therefore the conquest of England is counterproductive for the 2nd UHV and eventual golden age. I was running Theocracy and Vassalage and have settled all my admirals in the capital. Combat 2 is stronger than Drill 2 and sometimes I would use my galley as a bite for English ships to leave safe harbor in London. Back when I was playing as English I already felt that Drill 2 is an inadequate power for Royal Navy. Why not Combat I and Drill 1 for English?

Early Optics made my Vikings even more impudent . They would sink any ship in sight resulting in an international outrage against me. Check out what my brothers feel about me when Isabella (who DOW on me herself!) attempted to "stop fighting among the brothers in faith"

Spoiler :

I got my 2nd UHV 2 turns later -- in 1340 AD. I stopped all war efforts and squeezed from the Golden Age every sceat I only could. Plunder wars with Aztecs and Incas helped me a lot. Too bad that pillaging cities is not included in Viking's UP . Sometimes mine would give me more plunder than a city.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

You have captured the true spirit of the Vikings--plunder, destroy, found risky colonies in NAm which don't last the little Ice Age (or the Skraelings), don't and shouldn't care for the future with international outrage. (I never used the Vikings UP in my game) Well done.

The Great Library should really be eliminated for the 600 AD start--it makes whoever controls it too strong (usually the Arabs). (it used to be that Rome was the must-get city until Rhye buffed up the Pope's defences).

 

[Power_of_Beer]

The healthy man from the Bosporus!

First turn, i bombarded Constantinople (Byzanz was still alive) and captured it the second turn at the loss of 1 trebuchet. 2 Settlers were sent to the northern shores of the black sea, 1 was sent to the Balkans to found a city on the copper (a german settler was on its way already, so i had to found it in a rather bad spot).

The horse archers were upgraded to knights and captured Athens with the cannons and trebuchets. A Cataphract and a Trebuchet was all that flipped from Anatolia, and meanwhile Arabia was hit hard by the plague, leaving Jerusalem unguarded and Baghdad with only 1 Longbowman, so both cities were soon mine.

That was the second UHV in about 1450... now where do i get 3 vassals from? No India, Persia or other classical civs around in the 600AD start. Portugal vassalized soon voluntarily, Mali a bit later, just one more to go... my plan from the beginning was to be the first one in the new world and vassalize Monty and/or the Incans, so i beelined optics and beat a french caravel to Mexico by one turn ... Monty soon vassalized after i burned 2 of his cities.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

This can probably be beat easily, but I tried to build as many wonders as possible. Great Wall and Moai Statues in Athens, Great Lighthouse and Colossus in Salonae, Colosseum, Oracle (I love the fact that the Oracle can be built by the classical civs now), and Temple of Artemis in Rome. Parthenon being built.

Monarchy and Calendar traded from Persia/Parthia (who declared war on me twice no less after that). Left Carthage and Regius Hippo to grow, and also waited for Carthage to found a Spanish city before I annihilated them.

Really lucky game in that Greece had all but warriors in their cities, a flipped Paestum from them, and got Aesthetics from a hut in Portugal! First things built were barracks, then as aqueducts as soon as Math was learnt, then amphitheaters. One settler went to pick up all the huts then founded Londinium.

The only question now is should I try to reconquer everything when the Europeans show up.

Addendum: Khmer and India were vassals. I just gave everything away: you'll notice the Arabian Spanish city and French London. Tyrus and Jerusalem were given away to Persia, who then captured Mekkah, while I declared on the Arabs and recaptured my 2 cities. German settlers were wandering around trying to find a good spot but continually frustrated by my culture. Liberalism in 980, chose Divine Right.

Spoiler :

 

[Virdrago]

I actually would have won in 1545 if I had bothered to found Tiflis earlier, but I still like dawdling sometimes. Oh well.

First turn, moved the inhabitants of formerly Babylonian Gordion across the Bosporus and founded Istanbul. Babylonia was massive, with Hattusas (Bogaskoy), Sur, Artacoana, Ninovah, and Artashat. They also happened to have around ten wonders. Astashat (on the Caspian) had Moai and Great Lighthouse! Even Sur had the ToA. I gained a lot of goodies. Germany had just captured Athen.

Germany, Ethiopia (w/ AP), and Babylon were Jewish. Persia and Russia were Buddhist. Spain was the only Christian nation (the Holy City Sparte had been destroyed earlier.) Everyone else was Muslim (India switched from Hindu to Buddhist at some point).

Babylonia declared war, then collapsed. There was empty space between Athen and the next German city, Klagenfurt, so I founded Dirac in Croatia. Then I built Yas in Moldova, and whipped out a settler in Istanbul when it grew to size 6 (pretty quickly). Taganrog was founded just before German and Russian settlers got to the area. Tiflis I left for later, but I wasn't expecting three vassals so quickly.

I gained 9 GP, seven of them Scientists from Bogaskoy (Great Library and two other Wonders), two Merchants from Istanbul to settle there and build Wall Street. Many Academies were built around the empire with the scientists. This helped me stay way ahead in the race for techs.

I took Babil, the Persians gifted me Ninovah, and I had an uneasy peace between them and the Arabs the whole game. All of my wars involved Europe.

Portugal, Mali and Netherlands all decided they wanted to be my vassals early on. I didn't even have to ask.

I saved the 1610 because that was when Tiflis was founded (and Atina captured). As I played on I got France to voluntarily vassalize, and almost lost Netherlands and Portugal at various times, so I chose to keep playing to legitimize the virtual UHV. At one point early, the Dutch were down to two badly wounded units in Amsterdam when I made peace with the Germans; the Portuguese lost Lisboa to the Spanish, but managed to hold on, even after Arguim declared independence. Both of these incidents happened post-Eyelat of France, so I still would have had three other vassals, but still...

Spain, Russia, and Germany were my nemeses. I was always at war with one or two of them throughout. I actually lost 100 points (over 200 normalized) due to a plague that knocked off five points of pop, on average, from each of my cities during the five turns prior to victory. Did stay Solid/Very Solid throughout, except for the last couple turns (thanks to the plague).

Interesting to note: Built the SoL in Dirac (Europe). Evidently, Istanbul is not considered a part of Europe, but Tiflis (the desert just south of the Caucasus on the Black Sea) is.

Lefkosa is the same spot as Knossos would be for Greece, so the island south of Athens can be Crete when Greece builds on it, or Cyprus when Turkey does. Interesting mix, Rhye.

Too bad I couldn't build anything but work boats in Artashat (the Caspian is off-limits for warships). With the wonders, I would have loved to attack Russia with some amphibious units.

Attached is the 1610 save and the screenshot from 1872 (I keep forgetting to capture a screenshot before continuing).

 

[blizzrd]

Blizzrd, would founding a city on Mali's coast be even better for your trireme upgrade?

I don't think so. From Azores to Aztec spawn tile takes two turns, as does New Zealand to the row with the Aztec spawn tile (with an attached Great General).

No advantage to be had from the African coast, I would think it is around two tiles further away from Aztec lands actually.

 

[Wessel V1]

Just a thought, could the trick with the flipping galleys be used here? Give a city to India, then do the trick and sail to the other side of America. Or would that interrupt other important things?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I don't think so. From Azores to Aztec spawn tile takes two turns, as does New Zealand to the row with the Aztec spawn tile (with an attached Great General).

No advantage to be had from the African coast, I would think it is around two tiles further away from Aztec lands actually.

Oh duh, I keep thinking that I actually have to complete a "sailable" circle (i.e. around the southern tip of South America).

In that case a city on Papua or Philippines would be better since you're going towards Mexico, right?

 

[blizzrd]

Interesting to note: Built the SoL in Dirac (Europe). Evidently, Istanbul is not considered a part of Europe, but Tiflis (the desert just south of the Caucasus on the Black Sea) is.

It is, until the Turkish spawn when it dynamically changes to be a part of Asia. This change was implemented in a recent patch by Rhye to encourage AI Turkey to actually conquer Constantinople. The AI was having difficulty because of the continent line in its original location, and the change certainly has improved the AI Turkey's likelihood of conquering Constantinople.

 

[blizzrd]

In that case a city on Papua or Philippines would be better since you're going towards Mexico, right?

Not right (I think). The only city founding site available on Papua is surrounded by coastal water tiles (as opposed to ocean water tiles near New Zealand). This makes Papua less favourable than New Zealand, although they are about the same longtitude (this is where I have to say "I think" because I don't have a map handy).

As for Philippines, they are definitely further west than New Zealand and so are not favourable for this reason.

 

[Virdrago]

It is, until the Turkish spawn when it dynamically changes to be a part of Asia. This change was implemented in a recent patch by Rhye to encourage AI Turkey to actually conquer Constantinople. The AI was having difficulty because of the continent line in its original location, and the change certainly has improved the AI Turkey's likelihood of conquering Constantinople.

Good point; I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

Reminds me again: Russia vassalized to Babylonia for a while before i spawned (according to the histories). First time I saw either Russia vassalizing or Babylonia being a master.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Speaking of Russia vassalizing, I started out so well endowed with former barbs that I conquered France even before the Dutch spawned and Russia lost 2 cities to barbs so they wanted to vassalize then! (They obviously didn't have history in mind) Eventually they vassalized to Persia which kept them small for a while. I built the AP and Hagia Sophia myself (best 2 wonders to start for such a huge empire) and stayed at 11 cities until 1820. Mass media was the last tech I researched (to preserve the hammers) and stole artillery from the Portuguese which was the last tech. The only use of the Internet was fission (which I could have stolen easily with espionage).

Voluntary vassals were Portugal, Aztecs, Turkey (they were small too because Persia was strong) and China. I basically conquered all of Babylonia, Persia and Arabia for Turkey.

Got to be one of the luckiest game all around--Rome built the Notre Dame in Aemona Julia right before it flipped to me as Laibach.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

@blizzrd

Would you accept Ethiopia games? Like VV with earliest Religion, given that 1500 and 1910 conditions are met?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

There seems to be something broken with the synergy between police state/nationhood and mercantilism or communism: I only got a 10 point boost (I thought it was much bigger)? I ended up doing domination for my 3000 BC Germany game in 1856 because I couldn't get my stability up, although I think with my army I can reconquer any civ that respawns.

 

[blizzrd]

@blizzrd

Would you accept Ethiopia games? Like VV with earliest Religion, given that 1500 and 1910 conditions are met?

Sure, seems reasonable. Would definitely need proof that your empire can survive to an actual UHV in the 1900s AD though - I know from personal experience that this can be quite tough.