New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[blizzrd]

It really is 1500 even though the screen says 1505 because on the same turn that my golden age struck, Arabia, China and Khmer all declared on me, and I killed 2 extra boats then.

Similarly, Greece (or any civ with a circumnavigation UHV condition) will get the condition a turn before the victory is declared.

The scoreboard in the OP will be updated to show the way the game calculates the victories, which will sometimes be a turn late (depending on when during the turn script the UHV is checked).

Perhaps we should petition Rhye to swing the various UHV checks which currently are checked at the start of each turn instead to the end of the turn? Or would this cause the game speed to slow down unnecessarily?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

AnotherPacifist, how did you manage to sink the ships that early? Lots of naval war declarations?

I think there were 18 triremes, 4 caravels, 4 galleys:
Portuguese: 1T, 1G
Spain: 3T, 2G, 2C
Independent: 4T--these are tricky because you have pick the right time to declare war with caravels, i.e. you must not be in their territory to start with, and usually you have to kill some workboats (which don't count) to get their attention
France: 2T
Arabia: 2C
Khmer: 1T, 1G--my circumnavigating caravels did double duty here
China: 2T
Turkey: 5T (just park outside Sogut and you'll catch all kinds of stray boats; a pillaging galleon also induces stupid AI behavior in building tons of triremes)

If you notice I'm at war with Portugal, Spain, Arabia, Khmer and China when I won. I had to declare on friends like France (which made them collapse since the Dutch captured Paris) and Portugal (friendly when I struck). Of course I try to be friendly with Germans who were at war with the Russians (at one time the Russians declared on me, no doubt spurred on by the Spanish, and I made peace without losses on either side). Somehow the Dutch lost most of their ships so I couldn't get theirs, plus Copenhagen was rather close to Amsterdam so instead sent a spy there to steal civil service.

 

[Fierabras]

Very impressive. I guess I'm playing RFC way too peaceful, thinking that that many wars will kill my stability. I would love to see how you would handle the more peaceful UHV conditions like the Islam spread with Arabia (although it's UP can be used to spread Islam aggressively) and the Buddhism spread with the Khmer.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yeah, I was concerned about stability, so in the beginning I was mostly at war with Spain. When I was close to the 3rd UHV criteria, I didn't really care about stability, so the more war the merrier.

Speaking of peace, here's a virtual 1590 victory. I've just entered my GA after founding my 15th extra-European city (in fact had 2 settlers in Brazil just in case liberating cities didn't qualify), which made China (my trading partner for a LOOOONG time pleased with me ("past events"). Isabella is a [euphemism for copulating] [euphemism for female dog] in this version because of proximity, so I had to give her education for free, vote for her as AP resident (even though I had plenty more votes for sure), and sell her fish for 3g only. Never even thought of embracing free religion with the 7+ attitude from Christianity.

I didn't show Netherlands, Germany or Russia but I have OB with them too, so that makes 13 civs with OB. Everybody is stable (i.e. unlikely to collapse) so I don't think 1650 would make a difference.

The trick for opening borders is whenever you meet a civ for the first time, if there are no negative modifiers, gift them 10g, and get some back for a peace treaty. (Mongolia was opened that way very early on before the negative influence of Confucianism). Trade stuff if you can't get open borders to start with (e.g. China) and after you sell them maps and trade for a while, even with negative religious influences they will open borders.

Spoiler :

 

[Marshall_WP]

A historical victory for arabia, 1415.

 

[blizzrd]

Virtual German UHV in 1904AD. Didn't expand to more than 10 cities until right near the end (4 techs to go).

Bloody 1-size Spanish cities in Venice and Murcia wouldn't disband to me, despite going into German revolt about a dozen times each.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Very nice. I see you gave Venice to the Spanish just like I did. Why not raze some Scandinavian cities?

 

[blizzrd]

Very nice. I see you gave Venice to the Spanish just like I did. Why not raze some Scandinavian cities?

Actually Venice was captured by the Spanish themselves. I'd already shrunk it's area to just the city square.

The reason I didn't raze cities in Scandinavia was the same reason I didn't raze Venice - to keep my stability up. I didn't raze any Russian cities, but I did raze a few French ones very early on to be sure that I couild keep a core of no more than 10 cities for most of the game (i.e. all the cities builidng wealth in the screenshot) and also had to raze about 3-4 Turkish cities to get them to capitulate to me.

Those Scandinavian cities (all of which the AI built on crappy locations that missed key resources) were only captured using Modern Armor in the late 1890s. I captured all of Britain and Ireland in one turn around 1900 similarly (although the English cities were at least better positioned).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Obviously, found Reval/Tallinn and Kiev, and get some key resources such as stone and copper (all within reach) for wonders. Whip monuments/libraries/religious buildings and Germany will be gone in no time. Istanbul and Athens should be captured as soon as the Turks arrive and they'll be locked in Asia Minor forever.

I guess this should really count as a virtual victory since I'm the only one who has assembly line and just defied 2 world congresses with Turkey wanting Atina. Germany was crushed beneath my culture early on in the late 1600's. America, Inca, Mali and Netherlands are my vassals, with England in a pact with me.
It's kinda funny that I had the Apollo Program without even Railroads.

Regarding my capital:

In September 1989, there were famous UFO sightings in Voronezh, which drew attention from the press and TV. There were also reports on two strange creatures that came out of the UFO after it landed in a park.

Spoiler :

 

[TDK]

A historical victory for arabia, 1415.

Was that a 3000BC or 600AD start?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

For the quickest virtual UHV, here are some questions:
1. Is it better to found Jayakarta or Winburg, or Frankfurt (if the French razed it for you)?
--Jayakarta has spice and good growth but takes a long time to get there
--Winburg is closer but not as much growth potential
--Frankfurt would increase science much quicker initially
2. Meditation-Compass-Optics, but where to squeeze in Civil Service (because Amsterdam will be doing most of the work)?
3. Is it quicker to research Astronomy by itself or to bulb Education/Philosophy and get Astronomy via Liberalism?

 

[Wessel V1]

1. I think that Jayakarta is the best option if you want Slavery, if not Winburg is I guess (since it doesn't take so much time to develop the city). Anyway, I'm going to try both of them once since I've only considered that city in Australia with the fish, iron and gems (?) as a possibility. A question on Winburg though: what is the benefit of building the city on the gold, compared to 1 tile NE? I assume it's growth capabilities but if you want to finish the UHV before 1600, it won't matter much and the gold is quite important to boost research, isn't it?
2. That would probably depend on the arrival of the Plague. Cottages that are small, aren't really boosted by Bureaucracy, so it won't help much soon after the plague. In short, if it is possible to discover Civil Service many turns before the Plague, that would be the best option, if not, then it is better to wait until the cottages have grown a bit again.
3. In the 3000 BC start, Greece is sometimes still alive. If that is the case then they have already researched Philosophy and sometimes also Education, so you can trade that part. I'm currently playing a Japanese game where they discovered Liberalism in 1220 AD. In general, I think that the 3000 BC start is superior to the 600 AD start, since many classical techs that Medieval Europe doesn't have, are researched by Persia / Rome / Greece / Carthage etc. Also, Persia might want to trade some spices.

 

[Marshall_WP]

Was that a 3000BC or 600AD start?

Of course 3000 BC. In 600 AD start all civilizations in europe have christianity. I was lucky to have the holy city of christianity in Ursalim, so islam spread as quickly as christianity. Persia, Germany, Efiopia, England were happy to convert in islam for 1 technology. Then I captured Rome and gifted it to France, and France also converted in islam. It gave me open borders with all this civs, so my victory wasn't very difficult.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Founding Winburg on the gold gives a lot of advantages:
1. Amsterdam needs happiness (gold right away)
2. It catches the iron, copper, gems, cow, sugar and fish--any other position you'll lose one of them
3. It's also much more defensible--to attack Winburg, they have to cross a river (from the tile with gems) or brave a crossbow sitting on the hill NE. Obviously, once you finish improving the gems and sugar, you can fan out and park crossbows on the cow, iron and copper.

Personally I would love if Rhye changed the gold to the hill 1NE so I can work it.

In general, I like to play the 600 AD civs as Rhye intended, since things can change so drastically that it makes some UHVs very easy (Khmer, Arabia--good job though MarshallWP) or very hard (trying to circumnavigate when the Greeks or Romans have caravels for ages and built Notre Dame early on).

 

[ZachScape]

I never play the 600 AD because isn't impossible for ancient and classic civs to respawn? THat's what I have always figured, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Wessel V1]

I know that one resource will be lost then, but does the city have enough population to work the Iron, since it is on a desert tile? And, it's not on a river, but that's not much of a problem with the dutch with their magnificent dikes. I'm going to try it next time.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

You know, I just noticed that there are 2 rivers ending NW of Winburg, i.e. it's not on a river! Stupid me. And you're right, for the purposes of the UHV it's probably better to have growth than production.

Let's not forget SE India which also has a spice, plus elephant, sugar and fish, perfect for growth and it's just midway between Jayakarta and Madagascar. I'm actually going to try for that first.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It's been a while since I tried to get those spices and workers are so damn slow. This was using Winburg (1NE of gold) which got an early settler out to Madagascar and Pallikol (India), then Jayakarta since Khmer lost Singapore to Independents! Aztecs were duly subdued; Mexico City whipped a settler to Havana while Tampico whipped a galley, and both of them whipped workers out for the South American 2-Spice city. Rhye has made it much more difficult to get it done early (if it was just enclosing the spice I would have been done 100 years ago).

Very unfortunate that I went the philosophy/paper/education route since I spawned a freaking great spy rather than another great scientist (even though the odds were 70% GS). Would have gotten Astronomy much earlier otherwise. I just now got education in 1560 after another GS.

It is actually OK to sell the world map after you've circumnavigated because nobody is going to get more map than you if you send explorers to Greenland and Australia. This provides a much needed source of cash.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

Didn't even get to use my Triumphal Arch.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Speaking about Winburg Love the name: 'Win'-burg! Excellent city. Iron is less important than gold, IMHO.

Finished with 20 cities and London as a Capitol Was hoping for GA to bulb Radio and finish 1 turn earlier than you, but no luck, got GS instead .

Took very different approach: Metropolis was busy building research/wonders (Angkor Wat is a must have one!), colonies helped to found new colonies.

Found London (representing England), 2 Axeman from Inverness flip (Scottland), later conquered Dublin (Ireland).

Sailed with 3 initial galleys and 3 settlers+3 LB to found Winburg (Africa), Madras (Asia) and Bromme (Australia). Declared on Arabs and Khmer just to pass through their waters, stole workers along the way. Whipped 3 settlers from Winburg (2 for Africa and 1 for New Zealand), 1 from Bromme (for Adelaide), 2 from Madras (New Delhi and Bombay after razing "Old" barbarian Delhi and Bombay), 2 from Mexico City (Philadelphia and Georgetown), 2 from London (Halifax and Fort Willoughby) and 2 from Inverness (city in New England that starts on "P" and Falklands).

15+ city tech penalty works really odd. Was 2 turns away from Electricity, bulbed it with GS, progress bar rearranged in front of my eyes, the tech become more expensive and I became 3 turns away after the bulb Anyway, it was my very first try ever, I didn't even know what is the shortest path to the Modern Tech, toyed with Economics/Corporations instead of telling Mali to research it for me.

Finished a little disappointed... Felt like something was missing... UP almost never used/helped and the tech for the UU was not even researched (why bother?). In addition Victoria is less applicable leader for the human player than Elisabeth, since even if you win in 1700s it's still captures the age of Elisabeth, rather than Victoria (1800s, which you never play).

Let's petition Rhye to replace circumnavigation with something like "ensure there is no independent America at 1800" or "capture Paris and defeat Napoleon after he appears as a leader head for French". This way Redcoats will have some use and human player will have to reenact the War of independence or Napoleonic Wars. Alternatively, one could replace Redcoats with English Longbowman or some English Frigate, as a new UU, which is a departure from Civ4 and less desirable. UHVs for England make her finish too early, and unique unit will be never used by the human player aiming for modern technology and peaceful colonization...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Um, you do realize that I replayed that England game and got 1615? I'm sure blizzrd can do something like 1575 but until then...