1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

New challenge: Spaceship victories with production poor civs

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by AnotherPacifist, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    I see you tried to vassalize Germany but they must have collapsed under your weight.:p For Turkey it's so easy to expand either west or east, west being probably more productive (Persia has maybe 2 good cities while Germany and France have 4 good cities). Stability-wise I think Europe is worse for Turkey--I didn't have a single revolt since I was solid all the time.

    Anybody want to try for Ethiopia?
     
  2. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Trying it after seeing this thread. I think it will require some experimentation... I don't think I'm "on to anything" yet. :)
     
  3. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    3,738
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I have to agree with this. I am currently playing Turkey towards a UHV and it would a no-brainer to go for a space victory instead as I am in equal first place with France for techs but I control about 3 times the population as Napoleon does.

    The key for me to get enough vassals (I have 4) was Portugal, who came to me just as soon as I circumnavigated the world (beelined for Optics) for the movement bonus, asking to become a vassal state of mine. I was in the process of crushing Arabia into submission, so had a large enough empire to boot. Arabia had 2 Egyptian cities, 5 Arabian peninsula cities and 4 Persian/Indian cities before I invaded. I took Kudus and Mekka and they capitulated. Then I founded Bagdad to hem them in. Arabia was borderline going to declare war on me for centuries if I so much as demanded any resource, but by the late 1700s were actually friendly to the point that I could demand anything of them and get it.

    I also got Khmer and Aztec who volunteered for vassalization. The Aztecs were my insurance policy in case Arabia collapsed (it was touch and go a few times, like when Egypt respawned) and the Aztecs came attached with a war with England - not that that was a problem for me to deal with.

    Turkey has much better lattitudes for the Apollo Program than say Russia or Vikings does. I think this is a significant factor for determining the "ease" of a spaceship victory in RFC.
     
  4. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    One challenge I see in my current Ethiopia game is inflation. In 1856 inflation is 182%, so that my total expenses are 139 * 282% = 391, which is a lot for my empire. I pulled up a save as India and saw that inflation was something like 190% in 1880. In a non-RFC save inflation is 96% in 1908. I wonder if the player has any control over inflation in the current RFC...

    I see Barak was wondering something similar.
     
  5. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    I've never seen the great economist event in RFC to reduce my inflation. Is it just me being unlucky or what?
    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, a positive gold balance to avoid instability means that inflation is going to go up. I always hover around 0-50 gold at most in non-RFC games, but lately I've been hoarding thousands of gold piece simply because of positive balances with every turn.
     
  6. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,420
    Location:
    Ireland
    Yes, the Federal Reserve event is in RFC - I got it as either Germans or Russians, I can't remember which.

    This is a very interesting thread.
     
  7. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    1. Don't need to go for founding religion (use 1500 and 1900 as UHV criteria)
    2. Send 2nd settler south to get copper and iron
    3. Get code of laws quickly (for courthouses)
    4. Fill in South Africa with 1 more city, capture Mombasa, and get Egyptian lands when they collapse, otherwise get other African areas (e.g. Moqdisho, Mbanza Kongo) slowly to avoid draining
    5. Beeline biology, trade to fill in, and computers for internet
    6. Build Space Elevator in Aksum
    7. Vassalize Mali at some point for happiness and stability (or get liberalism for commonwealth)
     
  8. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    ...without being completely unreasonable. Played a perfectly pacifist game, discovered Aztecs and Incans who peacefully vassalized to me, so did Mali and Khmer. Did not build a single city in China (captured Keijo and built Chongjin but that's it to fulfill the 2nd criteria) but had cities in Jayakarta, Philippines, and 4 in Australia. Of course I'm first place in 1500 (that's just principle, nonnegotiable). No war at all. Built every useful wonder (Statue of Liberty and Notre Dame not being among them). I'm always annoyed that the Aztecs didn't build any cities in California so I built Shimonseki for them and "liberated" the same turn. I also captured Tucume and gave it to Inca. Well, these do NOT count as losing or trading a city so I won by default in 1850!:mad:
     
  9. Heathcliff

    Heathcliff Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Sweden
    Babylon is a fun civilization to play to the end because of the constant challanges of new aggressive civ's spawning near you. Monarch mode, latest patch.

    My starting plan was to get early cottages up at Babylon to make full use of the fact that Babylon start very early and floodplains is good for it.

    Not get too many cities too not get the sience costs and city costs too high.

    Founded Babylon on spot building a barracks and teching hunting -> archery, I didnt have any usefull workertechs so no use building a worker first. Build 3 bowmen and use them to capture Dehli, which would be my great people farm later. I was lucky Dehli only had 2 warriors, they have decided to build settler and new city too south east instead and was no problem for my three bowmen. I decided to raze the other indian city to not get behind in the sience race to Great Wall.

    After the 3 archers I build 2 workers and researched pottery, mining, BW, Masonry, Animal Husbandry, to improve Babylon where I whipped a granery, before I started to build spears to prepare for Persia.

    After that I teched Writing, Math...

    Disbanded Sur and Shusha when they flipped.
    When Persia spawned I realise I couldn't take their cities, spears cannot beat fortified archers, so I realised I need catapults for it. Persia declared war on me and we had a long fight, where I sat with spears outside Parsa before the catapults arrived.

    It cannot be emphazied strongly enough how important it is to get greatwall as soon as possible, because of all the horse archers coming from Sammarkand.

    In Dehli I built a library when I got writing and started to get 2 sientists to get an academy in Babylon, before I started hiring priests there to get Shrines.

    Now it was soon time for Arabia and Parsa and Babylon started to build elephants and catapults to meet the camelarchers.

    One strange thing happened in my game, christianity was founded in Yerusalihm, which was an independent city for quite long. That doesn't happen often. But of course was great for me.

    With the elephants and cats I took Yerusalihm and a workboat get contact with Cartage. Before Arabia spawns I moved home all troops to Babylon and let they have Yerusahlim when they spawned.
    It is very important to never ever refuse a flip, because then most of your army will go to the enemies and join the liberation war. It's better to wait 5 turns after liberation and then attack them. (I don't use the exploit to kill them when they spawned before they have founded their first city and you want the Religion in Mecca anyway).
    The war was surprisingly easy, elephants are good against camel archers.
    I only kept Yerusahlim and Mecca.

    Timely enough Egypt collapsed and I attacked and kept Niwit-Rist and Per-Wadjet (a misstake Athens culture made the city useless).

    One big problem was stabiliy, I never got anything better than unstable/collapsing. It was the economic stability rating that kept me down, must have been because of low amount of resources traded as I had nearly everything. Parsa liberated 2 times, it's easy to get back but you loose all building which is annoying. For that reason I kept most of my troops in Babylon. Per-Wadjet also liberated but I didnt take it back.

    Soon it is time for Turkey, luckily Yerusalihm is outside their spawning place, so no cities will flipp. And I decided not to attack them, they were too strong for it anyway. They haven't declared war on me yet and a strong Greece in Constantinopel keeps them weak.

    Rome and Cartage collapsed early, but Greece is going very strong. But wil probably collapse soon, I have 4 galleys ready in Yerusahlim to take Athens if it happens.

    In 1400 a surprisingly strong Ethiopia declared war on me (China also declared war, but they cant get to me). My elephants had to go there, I didnt have enough catapults to try to take any cities. But an AI stupidity which attacked my elephant stack with 10 horse archer outside their capital, reduced their army and i can probably have peace soon.

    Teachwise Greece is way ahead, but Im on par with the rest of the europeans. I missed liberalism with 3 turns in 1530, maybe too japan?! I don't have optics either.

    I got all 5 shrines in 1500, before I had any Shrines my sience was down too 10%, but now it's up too 50% at least. I built two more cities in southern India in 1500, which costs 20 g/turn for every new city. Is it always that high??

    I will try to get any other city, except Athens if they collapse. Im abit production short for a spacerace, but very good tech-cities and highly specialised. The worst thing that can happen is that India/Persia/Arabia/Egypt respawns, which they probably will. That's the only real obstacle I see towards a spaceracevictory. I dont need Egypt, but if anyone else respawn I'll have to get the cities back.

    Im at 1555 now, so I haven't finished the game yet. Babylon is most exciting before 1500 anyway. And there are lots of different starting tactics. Perhaps Another Pacifist has another starting plan for his Babylon spacerace?!
     
  10. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    Heathcliff you're doing way better than I am. Build some courthouses and hope that India doesn't respawn. From my Persian game it's usually enough with the number of cities you have right now so don't bother capturing Athens.
    In my last few games Babylon couldn't generate enough culture to flip Sur or Shush even after 2 wonders...are you playing BTS?
     
  11. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
  12. mushyman

    mushyman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    175
    I guess the only thing you can do is avoid building culture buildings in southern Japan and hope China/Seoul gets enough culture in Korea to miss the second UHV condition? Is that ever going to happen?

    Either that or found/capture a small city near a strong civ you're at war with and leave it undefended I suppose. A lot of effort just to launch a spaceship :rolleyes:
     
  13. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    9,468
    Location:
    Japan / South America
    the "best of" these tips would be nice to have in the wiki, like Jet did. Of course, if something has changed with the new patch, you'll need a bit more time
     
  14. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,561
    Location:
    Torino - Italia
    Ok I am trying to do Spaceship victories with only historical territory.

    So far I was doing well with Carthage (Carthago, Icosium, Lixus, Leptis) but I got to a point where my computers can't run the game anymore... I get stuck at "Waiting for other civilizations" >_<
    Will try with the new patch, otherwise I may post the save in case someone can play ahead.

    With Egypt I am doing also well (Memphis, Butos, Thebes, Selime (?), Abydos) (note: in RFC naming system Thebes and Abydos are quite far from their real locations) but I am dealing with chronical instability, especially due to Foreign being always only one star and I can't figure out why.
     
  15. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Me too for Egypt, couldn't get past 1000 AD due to one star Foreign (and one start Economy, in my case.) Only tried twice though.
     
  16. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    America is much easier playing for spaceship victory. Can't really lose with all that good land and super stable (I was in a Great Depression for much of the 19th century and was "solid" throughout, becoming very solid when I switched to environmentalism).

    BTW, founded Anchorage and Pearl Harbor just to complete the American/Canadian Union.:lol:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    I got space with India in 1.181. I don't think I ever did it all the way with India before, but it does seem harder than it used to be. I think inflation is part of the difference. It was close. I used the Internet, almost lost to a time victory, and was lucky to get the health event. Briefly what I did was
    Spoiler :
    founded both religions and Oracled to Mathematics, defending the border with Archers and forts, then Calendar. 6 cities in India, notably Chennai on the cows which got an Academy and somewhat to my surprise, the Channel Tunnel. To control stability and costs I settled just 2 colonies, in the Phillipines and southeast Australia, for resources and 8 cities total. Later I also grabbed New Zealand, but I don't think it made much difference. Made friends with my neighbors. Cottaged as much as I could. Got the Leaning Tower (wanted the GL) and Shwedagon. Mostly did balanced research, choosing techs for trades and gradually getting to Biology. After Biology it was Railroad, then Computers.
     
  18. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    Note that I did cheat by turning off stability in 1700, but that's just because it's impossible otherwise due to unnatural agricultural bias against Ethiopia in stability. I tried to counter the instability by building the Taj Mahal first, but even then switching civics made me collapse. Free economy is a no-no due to Great Depression (despite 1st in gold and 1st in production).

    Send 2nd settler to found Gondar which becomes the nucleus to colonize southern Africa and also a very productive city. Very important to get early bronze (for spearmen and axemen) so I defended it with my swordsman and axemen. Egypt actually DOW'd on me but collapsed midway due to barbs. I built a sizeable army and conquered Egypt. Razed every native city and founded my own. Even discovered pacifism and liberalism first.:lol:

    The Internet is indispensible since my empire is so large. Also built the Space Elevator in Aksum (no other cities other than Gondar, Hanoi and New Orleans are as productive near the Equator, and mine was the only one alive and having the knowhow to build it). Gondar builds the UN. I was 3 turns from building the Statue of Liberty and 2 from Rock'nRoll before France snatches it from me (Paris was the only city in the interior of France and was superproductive).

    Germany DOW'd on me all of a sudden in the 1700's and I had to divert resources to counter their offensive in Per-Wadjet. Did it again in the 1950's and I signed a defensive pact with everybody and in 10 years Germany was dead from instability.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    yes, it is possible, but only if you turn off stability around 1850--that's when I inexplicably descended into civil war despite being no. 1 in gold and no. 2 in crops, with a 2 star economy. Of course with the new patch expansion penalties are more severe too. And the price of Biology is higher with chemistry being so expensive. And the fact that there's no aluminum in Africa (hence the Australasian expansion).

    Nevertheless here it is. Built Leaning Tower (for 100% Great engineer emergence), and saved 2 of them for building the Space Elevator. Dia built the Internet (even though England had computers forever they didn't build it). Absolutely no war at all.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,878
    Babylon is not meant to survive. So even if you have lots of gold and have 3 vassals, your economy, civics and expansion will be 1 star.

    Decided to found Dur Untash (Shush would have been good since it gets the copper and the 2 oil, but I thought I needed harbors and I know that Parsa will inevitably be founded, which means it'll be hard to get workboats out later). Dur Untash has access to both the stone and marble, which means I got Pyramids and Stonehenge first. Should have gone for Oracle but decided against it in the end, I can trade for everything anyway. Got Moai Statues shortly after Greece spawned, so I had plenty of production. Perfect location for Space Elevator.

    Emar was founded as a 2nd city after Sur was razed. Not as productive as I have hoped since it overlapped with Hattusas.

    Hattusas became my 2nd capital to prevent Turkish flipping--palace just built in 1260.

    Persia as usual declares war on me, so since I got the Great Wall, they were taking hits from both barbs and my axemen/catapults. Vassalized to India but it was too late. I just wish they didn't found Parsa but another city on the coast.

    Gave Jerusalem to Arabia who inevitably declares war on me, so captured Al-Quds and Makkah and they collapse. Disbanded 2 culture flipped cities in Arabia. Aksum flips due to culture.

    Remembering that there's aluminum in southern India, I slowly but inexorably captured those independent cities in India.

    Turkey spawns with just Sogut and since Greece stupidly founded Pityos (called something else), it flips to them. Vassalized Turkey which basically means Hattusas had plenty of production. I captured Istanbul (which became their capital) for them when Greece collapsed but eventually due to my culture Sogut flipped and they collapsed. Respawned and became my vassals again.

    Atenas (captured by Spanish) I got by a conference, and between it and Sparta there was about 8 wonders.

    At the end I decided to experiment a little to see how much I can abuse the
    +125 stability points--became only "stable" after founding Eridu, Akkad, Lagash, Uruk, Eulbar, Shuruppak, and Sippar--all cities in the Fertile Crescent that got transposed to other continents.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page