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New Deity Challenge Series **Suggestion thread**

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by DingleBirdy, Jun 17, 2014.

  1. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Yes they do not count but that is for those format. I also do not do it... I just stated it's possible to do it.

    Yes I do think you're very wrong if you think rewards are balanced.

    Oh I really do understand what you mean regarding the law of large numbers. But the fact that something yields average results over a large number of trials is totally irrelevant when comparing one game to another. That is my point.
    I agree however that if we both played 50 games, ruins wouldn't matter (and I think that's your argumentation). But you'd agree that on a game to game basis it does matter (which is my point) and that fact is why I do not like it.

    Though, yes... ruins are somewhat more fun. Until you get Map, Barb, 55gold :/

    Really, I can see why someone would preffer them on. The fun of exploring and not really caring for results. But to me it doesn't offset the negative.

    Edit: The part you edited in your post just confirms this. You're making the argument that they are balanced due to them having equal probability. But that isn't what I'm talking about at all. I'm saying that one specific result is better than another and only randomness will give you one result or the other. And that, I do not like. The fact that on average it's the same is a totally different matter which to me isn't relevant... for the simple reason that we do not compare hundreds of games.
     
  2. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Ok this is my last post. I guess your saying in the short run they matter which I can agree with but in all honesty I think you have to look at the big picture because we don't just play 1 game we are addicts and we play 1000s. On a last note and I think you went over this, when you do these challenges even if you take off the ruins and compare them to each other they are always going to have odd results and factors which will change finish times drastically. Case in point is like on that #38 challenge so far my game was the only one where Alex got rolled very early and that has a major impact if he stays in the game or not with turn times. However, seriously, if anyone knows the true math behind popping ruins Id like to know. Is that true if I settle a cap or a city and pop a ruin in the same turn do I have a better chance of getting a Free Pop ruin?
     
  3. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    That's our new chaos free challenge series for you, good sir! :D Honestly... all I can say is just... sigh. :) I see no way to counter this.

    Regarding upload dates, I want to elaborate on my previous statement. I really expect the challenges to be regular and bi-weekly, but I'd rather have a 3 days window than specific date. And again, I don't have strong objection to the latter. I just think it's a more realistic goal for us.
     
  4. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Problem being we do compare only one game to the next rather than a lot of them ;)
    I also understand that we cannot eliminate all elements of luck (or randomness since you seem to not like the L word (pun intended)). But I'm just not a fan of ruins :/ At least if rewards were relatively equal in value I'd like them a lot better. That's why I'd appreciate some games with it turned off. If it was up to me it would be always off but I doubt seeing previous answers here that it would be the case.

    Well a community is better when people are free so I'm fine with some people proposing their stuff in their own thread. But I'm also not really interested in playing a random map with only one other guy... That's why a resurgence of something that at least a handful are interested to participate in is interesting.

    Don't really care if intervals of time are flexible. As long as it doesn't go shorter than 12 days and longer than 20 I guess.

    Posters should remember to deactivate Map DLCs though...
     
  5. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Well, that games not going to work. I couldn't load it because I don't have the appropriate dlc. Disabling the pointless map packs is going to be a must for these games.
     
  6. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Does anyone know how to remove DLC? I've gone in and unchecked the explorers map pack, but it seems to reactivate itself every time I reload civ.
     
  7. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    It would be nice if there were always link to this thread (or other information thread). This would make it easier for new players to know the meaning of challenge series and propose new challenges to host etc.
     
  8. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Central problem with ruins in general, in my opinion, is that particular culture ruin, which theoretically enables one to end up with 7 turn faster NC (time invested in a monument), given identical build path and skill level. I say it's a small factor, especially comparing to the luck of CS alliances and random barb camp placements (hello, worker in a barb camp next to Kuala Lumpur giving a 10-15 turn faster full tradition)

    Another good one is meeting two unsuspecting Egyptian workers on t.14, then making peace and sending a caravan into Thebes ~t.30 to completely eliminate warmongering penalties and befriend the recipient of said caravan, just because it's the biggest diplomatic bonus early in the game.

    Whether all three events will line up inside one game, giving the player a significant amount of head start is the question. But i say the free culture ruin has smaller magnitude than a free alliance with Kuala and/or 2 free workers. Certainly, removing ruins will make a playing field slightly more level. On the other hand - is it worth it to deliberately make exploration process less entertaining just to end up with 5-10 turn slower finish times for each skill level?

    My vote - keep em.
     
  9. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Very well said Moriarte. Also, as someone else mentioned, it would really hurt The Shoshone, so I've decided to keep them in the game.
     
  10. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    I think we should alternate ruins and no ruins games just for the sake of those who feel strongly against them. Personally I agree they have no game changing effect, yet they add to randomness and skew the playing field. I see both arguments as valid.

    P.S. Totally unrelated - nice game you had there, DB. Very well done. But man, you've got lucky! :)
     
  11. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    What are you talking about? Was it Mt K? Not going against the GW? Basically every capital having no defense? Venice aka the weakest ai civ in the game? Yeah, I was pretty damn lucky.

    Alright, you are the man. No take backs!

    I agree. All map packs will need to be disabled. It should increase the amount of participants.

    Alright, I think that can be arranged.

    Agree...if you have any games saved (with map packs disabled, please send them my way. Email is dallasmurpyhbird@gmail.com because apparently you cannot send them through pm.

    I'm going to quote this in the new deity challenge series introduction. I believe this sums up the issue with the current challenges.

    I think at first we will start with them on, and maybe start alternating between on and off. We'll see where the interest is as we move forward.

    I've decided every other Friday as someone suggested. It fits in your 12-20 range, plus there will probably be a boost in activity if they are posted right before the weekend. And ****NO DLC MAPS.*****

    Good call...it could clear up some future confusion.
     
  12. hicks53081

    hicks53081 Chieftain

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    Every other Friday sounds perfect. Are we starting this Friday? Next Friday? Do you have a save picked out?
     
  13. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    This Friday will be Game #1 and yes I have a save picked out. But seriously send me any saves you think would make for a good community challenge. I would like a stockpile of games in my saves folder. And remember, Disable map pack DLC. Again, my email is dallasmurpyhbird@gmail.com
     
  14. hicks53081

    hicks53081 Chieftain

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    Great, I'm excited. Do you have a screen shot of the save? I want to make another suggestion. Please don't start messing around with the start dates in the settings. Nobody has strategy when the game era is set to start in for example the Industrial era. It just becomes a clusterf*ck and nobody knows what to build and when to build it. Just keep everything in the ancient era.
     
  15. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    I look very much forward to it. :)
    Granted, for people saying disable ruins, I'm totally fine with that (will probably revert to my GnK build order for early game as scouts are almost useless without them save for religious CS... but even then worker first is better)

    But while you're at it, would you consider disabling barbarians as well? (they are rather luck based too but then we'd miss out on a lot of easy CS clear encampment quests...)
     
  16. Aibeit

    Aibeit Chieftain

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    1. I don't think the game upload dates matter, just as long as there ARE some challenges...
    2. Don't care either...
    3. I would say leave that up to the OP... winning with a certain victory condition can actually be the challenge rather than winning at all, I think it tends to add some spice to the challenge, so I wouldn't forbid predetermined VCs...
    4. Duh.
    5. Yes.
    6. Yes.
    7. I don't see why you would disable this. I personally think having a LOT of barbs early on sometimes adds interesting elements to the game (makes honor openers viable etc.)
    8. Makes sense, I agree.
    9. Yes. While they're not always completely fair, they do help keep the game interesting in my opinion.
     
  17. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Let me start by saying the only time I have ever played with raging barbs was on a GotM. I don't have a lot of experience with them. The issue raised is it seems to work the opposite as intended. The idea behind them is to slow down human progress at the beginning of the game. It forces you to create a military and thus changes your build order, tech order, and possibly social policy selections. In reality it causes the ai to never expand as they constantly lose their settlers. They also lose their workers because they are so bad at protecting them. In the end it causes the ai to just basically sit there in passive mode for the entire game.
     
  18. DingleBirdy

    DingleBirdy Chieftain

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    Yep, ancient will be the set starting date. And here is a picture of the the starting point for you.
    Spoiler :
    We'll start out using Shaka on salt. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
     
  19. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    Are modified maps and starts OK? I have something in mind like adding extra AI to OP starting position or giving one of the AI's extra settler. I have all kinds of different ideas but if I create those maps they wont be interesting to my because I already know surprises that are waiting.
     
  20. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    If people send you saves, ask for a short description as to why it is a spacial game
     

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