New Game- random leader:Roosevelt
- Thread starter joe6778
- Start date
UnforcedError
Settler
That's right 
Roading inside Ragnar's cultural borders would only make sense if we didn't have trade routes with him already and wanted to connect his city to us. However, that road does not speed up the war because your units won't profit from road movement bonus in enemy territory.
Roading inside Ragnar's cultural borders would only make sense if we didn't have trade routes with him already and wanted to connect his city to us. However, that road does not speed up the war because your units won't profit from road movement bonus in enemy territory.
UnforcedError
Settler
Alright then. I think we should change the way we play this a bit How about you tell me what you intend to do this turn (without actually making any changes) and we discuss the whys and whens? (This will slow down the game even more but I think now you are familiar with the basics and you can always learn faster by puzzling out things yourself).
So let's do this systematically. First cycle through your cities and try to decide...
1. whether a city build needs to be changed (for whatever reason)
2. whether a city should be whipped
3. whether a city needs urgent tile improvements
And let's try to make a plan for unit moves as well. Let's also check if we can make a trade. And since we're about to declare war, let's decide it it's safe to attack Ragnar or not.
EDIT: btw moving our whole stack onto the road you just built was a mistake. This will lose us commerce and is totally unnecessary given that the stack could have moved 2 tiles from inside our culture and could have landed 1NE of Birka next turn in any case. This is why I insisted on building that road. On Noble this mistake is not crucial but it might cost you the game on the higher levels.
How about you tell me what you intend to do this turn (without actually making any changes) and we discuss the whys and whens? (This will slow down the game even more but I think now you are familiar with the basics and you can always learn faster by puzzling out things yourself).So let's do this systematically. First cycle through your cities and try to decide...
1. whether a city build needs to be changed (for whatever reason)
2. whether a city should be whipped
3. whether a city needs urgent tile improvements
And let's try to make a plan for unit moves as well. Let's also check if we can make a trade. And since we're about to declare war, let's decide it it's safe to attack Ragnar or not.
EDIT: btw moving our whole stack onto the road you just built was a mistake. This will lose us commerce and is totally unnecessary given that the stack could have moved 2 tiles from inside our culture and could have landed 1NE of Birka next turn in any case. This is why I insisted on building that road. On Noble this mistake is not crucial but it might cost you the game on the higher levels.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Hehehee, this is fun 
! Noble overkill 
! Good job Joe!!
! Noble overkill ! Good job Joe!!Alright then. I think we should change the way we play this a bit
So let's do this systematically. First cycle through your cities and try to decide...
1. whether a city build needs to be changed (for whatever reason)
2. whether a city should be whipped
3. whether a city needs urgent tile improvements
And let's try to make a plan for unit moves as well. Let's also check if we can make a trade. And since we're about to declare war, let's decide it it's safe to attack Ragnar or not.
EDIT: btw moving our whole stack onto the road you just built was a mistake. This will lose us commerce and is totally unnecessary given that the stack could have moved 2 tiles from inside our culture and could have landed 1NE of Birka next turn in any case. This is why I insisted on building that road. On Noble this mistake is not crucial but it might cost you the game on the higher levels.
Attached is what I would change including whipping a couple of cities.
I need to hook up pasture/camp in the new city up north. Turfan needs cottages.
I have almost 2:1 advantage over Ragnar militarily, so I think it's safe to attack next turn. I can get his worker and attack Birka from the NE.
I can trade Pacal for some gold but I'm not ready to.
UnforcedError
Settler
OK, I could finally have a look at the save.
Some comments:
Nongoma and Ulundi can whip their courthouses.
no need to road up the new city that urgently because it is connected via the river to our land. However, tile improvements are urgent. Let's stop that roading worker. Both of them should start on the deer.
You can build two confu missionaries. Please select the cities to build them in
There are two urgent mines to build in kwaDukuza (also for GLH city to use).
We don't really need that confu monastery in Bulawayo (leave it in the queue, given that it's almost done, but let's use the horse tile instead of the 3F farm). Nor do we want one in kwaDukuza.
Some comments:
Nongoma and Ulundi can whip their courthouses.
no need to road up the new city that urgently because it is connected via the river to our land. However, tile improvements are urgent. Let's stop that roading worker. Both of them should start on the deer.
You can build two confu missionaries. Please select the cities to build them in
There are two urgent mines to build in kwaDukuza (also for GLH city to use).
We don't really need that confu monastery in Bulawayo (leave it in the queue, given that it's almost done, but let's use the horse tile instead of the 3F farm). Nor do we want one in kwaDukuza.
UnforcedError
Settler
Sorry, I meant kwaDukuza and Beshbalik, just forgot half the sentence
So what are your micro plans for this turn?
So what are your micro plans for this turn?
It seems like this shadow game has grown stale, so I guess its time for me to move on.
I believe that given this start, I can definitely win a Conquest Victory. I was trying to get a Space Race win only so I can see how that kind of victory can be achieved so early in the game.
This particular game, and how it has progressed, shows me how much I still dont know about the nuances of playing CIV IV. The way the cities were established and the way the tiles are worked are a thing of beauty. I tried to play a few turns beyond my last save on my own, but I dont remember a lot of the actions taken that got me to this point in the game. Consequently, I reverted to my own style of playing, which is far from optimal. After all the games Ive played, and all Ive been taught here, I still dont remember why certain actions are taken and for what reasons.
Even so, I took some of the lessons learned here and Ive won all but one game played on Prince difficulty. But I couldnt have gotten to this point without help from this website- especially the time and patience devoted to me by Lymond and Unforced Error. I cant thank you enough.
I may actually take a stab at Monarch difficulty. This is amazing to me because I was all ready to move down in difficulty or give up on CIV IV altogether a couple of months ago.
Anyway, I would just like to thank you for all the help that has been graciously given to me these past months in order for me to improve my gameplay.
(Im sure Ill be coming back to this forum with the same questions and frustrations I had when I started.)
I believe that given this start, I can definitely win a Conquest Victory. I was trying to get a Space Race win only so I can see how that kind of victory can be achieved so early in the game.
This particular game, and how it has progressed, shows me how much I still dont know about the nuances of playing CIV IV. The way the cities were established and the way the tiles are worked are a thing of beauty. I tried to play a few turns beyond my last save on my own, but I dont remember a lot of the actions taken that got me to this point in the game. Consequently, I reverted to my own style of playing, which is far from optimal. After all the games Ive played, and all Ive been taught here, I still dont remember why certain actions are taken and for what reasons.
Even so, I took some of the lessons learned here and Ive won all but one game played on Prince difficulty. But I couldnt have gotten to this point without help from this website- especially the time and patience devoted to me by Lymond and Unforced Error. I cant thank you enough.
I may actually take a stab at Monarch difficulty. This is amazing to me because I was all ready to move down in difficulty or give up on CIV IV altogether a couple of months ago.
Anyway, I would just like to thank you for all the help that has been graciously given to me these past months in order for me to improve my gameplay.
(Im sure Ill be coming back to this forum with the same questions and frustrations I had when I started.)
CivNoobie
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2012
- Messages
- 614
kudos to Joe for listening, this game was beyond over when you had KK down even before medieval era.
The Land you gained from Germany were mostly flood plains and it lacked hammer.
feel free to open a new thread and start a monarch game.
UnforcedError
Settler
Hi Joe,
sorry, I missed your post with the save, will have a look at it when i get home from work, if you still want to move on with it. Then again, I was thinking of you posting your ideas about the next moves and not actually playing them out before we discuss them, because then we'd end up doing the same as we did previously, I would just post a micro plan and you'd execute it blindly (or not even executing some of it, because you don't think those moves could be important). So I'd say, I can have a look at the save and post what I'd do differently, but it'd be better if you posted your thoughts about the next moves and waited for a discussion.
If you don't want finish this particular game, that's OK too, here's some general advice I can give you for your Monarch games:
1. cycle through your cities every turn and inspect which tiles they are using. Make sure they're always working the best possible ones and make sure you improve the important tiles in their bfcs.
2. determining what to do with your workers is another key to success. If you overbuild on workers early you realm's going to suffer, if you don't have enough spare worker turns your realm will suffer as well. It's actually not easy to find the most optimal solution and it really requires you to know which worker actions should be prioritized at what point of the game.
3. check the trade screen every turn. This is something you generally tend to forget Trades and bribes are a powerful feature of the game, use them
4. An early space win has its particular tricks, so do all other VCs, so checking out strategies and write-ups on this forum never hurts
5. Pay attention to what buildings or wonders you build. What building you need will always be determined by your strategy for a particular map (except for the really basic ones, like granaries). Overbuilding is another common mistake players can make.
Do you want to carry on with this particular game or rather open a new Monarch thread?
sorry, I missed your post with the save, will have a look at it when i get home from work, if you still want to move on with it. Then again, I was thinking of you posting your ideas about the next moves and not actually playing them out before we discuss them, because then we'd end up doing the same as we did previously, I would just post a micro plan and you'd execute it blindly (or not even executing some of it, because you don't think those moves could be important). So I'd say, I can have a look at the save and post what I'd do differently, but it'd be better if you posted your thoughts about the next moves and waited for a discussion.
If you don't want finish this particular game, that's OK too, here's some general advice I can give you for your Monarch games:
1. cycle through your cities every turn and inspect which tiles they are using. Make sure they're always working the best possible ones and make sure you improve the important tiles in their bfcs.
2. determining what to do with your workers is another key to success. If you overbuild on workers early you realm's going to suffer, if you don't have enough spare worker turns your realm will suffer as well. It's actually not easy to find the most optimal solution and it really requires you to know which worker actions should be prioritized at what point of the game.
3. check the trade screen every turn. This is something you generally tend to forget
Trades and bribes are a powerful feature of the game, use them 4. An early space win has its particular tricks, so do all other VCs, so checking out strategies and write-ups on this forum never hurts
5. Pay attention to what buildings or wonders you build. What building you need will always be determined by your strategy for a particular map (except for the really basic ones, like granaries). Overbuilding is another common mistake players can make.
Do you want to carry on with this particular game or rather open a new Monarch thread?
I posted my last saved game after I made certain decisions/actions just so I wouldnt have to explain in words what I did. I thought you could just see it. I can always go back to the previous saved game if my actions are too wacky.
I dont think Im ready yet for Monarch. Although Im winning on Prince, I find that Im still making stupid mistakes or not taking the optimal actions, especially early on. There are so many decisions to make that Im not sure Im making the right ones. Im following your advice as much as possible and what I can remember, but my city locations and builds still might not be the best. I do try to check every city every turn and check for trades, but sometimes I dont know what to build or why certain things happen (like losing my money early and not being able to build a large army or tech quickly, etc.) The way this Noble game is progressing is a thing of beauty that I cant repilicate on my own.
My formula is: I usually try to take out a civ or two early and then just tech to rifling/assembly line and steel ASAP, build tons of cannons/infantry, and attack and vassal the remaining civs. Its worked all but one time when another civ with a higher population than mine and my vassals won a Diplomatic Victory through the Apostolic Palace. I dont know how to stop that from happening again short of attacking the largest other civ. And I dont think this formula will work on higher difficulties.
Anyway, I still have this Noble game saved if you want to continue although its evident Im still not grasping a lot of what Ive been taught.
I dont think Im ready yet for Monarch. Although Im winning on Prince, I find that Im still making stupid mistakes or not taking the optimal actions, especially early on. There are so many decisions to make that Im not sure Im making the right ones. Im following your advice as much as possible and what I can remember, but my city locations and builds still might not be the best. I do try to check every city every turn and check for trades, but sometimes I dont know what to build or why certain things happen (like losing my money early and not being able to build a large army or tech quickly, etc.) The way this Noble game is progressing is a thing of beauty that I cant repilicate on my own.
My formula is: I usually try to take out a civ or two early and then just tech to rifling/assembly line and steel ASAP, build tons of cannons/infantry, and attack and vassal the remaining civs. Its worked all but one time when another civ with a higher population than mine and my vassals won a Diplomatic Victory through the Apostolic Palace. I dont know how to stop that from happening again short of attacking the largest other civ. And I dont think this formula will work on higher difficulties.
Anyway, I still have this Noble game saved if you want to continue although its evident Im still not grasping a lot of what Ive been taught.
UnforcedError
Settler
Explaining in words what you intend to do and why is a good way to get better at the game, Joe, and basically the only way one can learn from his mistakes, so I don't think it's that useless.
Some immediate thoughts and questions:
Ulundi: assign two scientists when building wealth instead of two mines.
Nobamba: Whip the courthouse.
Bulawayo: if you want to grow the city before finishing the settler, use the pig.
kwaDukuza: whip missionary (whip away a coast tile and a plains cottage, not the scientists).
Nongoma: this is something you don't want to do: put 20
OF into a missionary in a city with poor natural . In these cases you either want to save the OF until later (you can do this by building wealth) or put it into something that won't become a one pop whip after capturing the OF. Let's build the missionary somewhere else.
Beshbalik: yes, I remember the monastery. Totally unnecessary, but since it will finish in 1T anyway...
Karakorum: What's the purpose of the Confu temple here?
Berlin: use mine instead of unimproved river grass.
Alright, now let's practice determining worker actions: which improvements do you think are urgent?
Some immediate thoughts and questions:
Ulundi: assign two scientists when building wealth instead of two mines.
Nobamba: Whip the courthouse.
Bulawayo: if you want to grow the city before finishing the settler, use the pig.
kwaDukuza: whip missionary (whip away a coast tile and a plains cottage, not the scientists).
Nongoma: this is something you don't want to do: put 20
OF into a missionary in a city with poor natural . In these cases you either want to save the OF until later (you can do this by building wealth) or put it into something that won't become a one pop whip after capturing the OF. Let's build the missionary somewhere else.Beshbalik: yes, I remember the monastery. Totally unnecessary, but since it will finish in 1T anyway...
Karakorum: What's the purpose of the Confu temple here?
Berlin: use mine instead of unimproved river grass.
Alright, now let's practice determining worker actions: which improvements do you think are urgent?
Explaining in words what you intend to do and why is a good way to get better at the game, Joe, and basically the only way one can learn from his mistakes, so I don't think it's that useless.
Some immediate thoughts and questions:
Ulundi: assign two scientists when building wealth instead of two mines.
Nobamba: Whip the courthouse.
Bulawayo: if you want to grow the city before finishing the settler, use the pig.
kwaDukuza: whip missionary (whip away a coast tile and a plains cottage, not the scientists).
Nongoma: this is something you don't want to do: put 20
Beshbalik: yes, I remember the monastery. Totally unnecessary, but since it will finish in 1T anyway...
Karakorum: What's the purpose of the Confu temple here?
Berlin: use mine instead of unimproved river grass.
Alright, now let's practice determining worker actions: which improvements do you think are urgent?
What I don't get:
Ulundi: Isn't wealth based on hammers?
kwaDukuza: Why whip? Don't I need the commerce?
Nongoma: Why not whip here if I'm whipping in kwaDukuza?
Beshbalik: Doesn't it help research?
Karakorum: Doesn't it boost happiness cap?
UnforcedError
Settler
Yes but Karakorum is size 3, has a current cap of 10 and will be whipped regularly.What I don't get:
Ulundi: Isn't wealth based on hammers?
Yes. But a rep scientist gives you morethan the
you'd get from a mine.
kwaDukuza: Why whip? Don't I need the commerce?
We also need the missionary which will also translate into commerce and hammers.
Nongoma: Why not whip here if I'm whipping in kwaDukuza?
Because Nongoma's missionary is a 1-pop whip while kwaDukuza's is 2.
Beshbalik: Doesn't it help research?
Beshbalik makes exactly 3C natural commerce. You will get +0C from the monastery even at 100% research.
Karakorum: Doesn't it boost happiness cap?
UnforcedError
Settler
So? Any ideas about worker actions?
I've been out of town for the weekend. I'll take a look tonight.
Ok. I'm back.
Worker actions:
Ulundi: farm
kwaDuzuka: chop jungle- grassland farm
Umma: finish cottage
Nobamba: finish farm
Munich: riverside farm and then plantation after border pop
Cologne: chop forest-riverside cottage
Berlin: finish farm
Hamburg: riverside cottage
Ndonda: pasture and then riverside farm and grassland farm
Birka- finish connecting road
Karakorkum: farm
Worker actions:
Ulundi: farm
kwaDuzuka: chop jungle- grassland farm
Umma: finish cottage
Nobamba: finish farm
Munich: riverside farm and then plantation after border pop
Cologne: chop forest-riverside cottage
Berlin: finish farm
Hamburg: riverside cottage
Ndonda: pasture and then riverside farm and grassland farm
Birka- finish connecting road
Karakorkum: farm
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