New Mod: "Bigger, Better Worlds"
- Thread starter DB_in_Omaha
- Start date
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
Personally, I never play at higher than Monarch level, and even then, usually get my ass handed to me unless I'm playing at Regent. Suffice it to say I'm better at modding than at playing. 
That's why it's nice to have other folk playtesting my changes.
A less drastic change might be to "help out" the AI a bit. Right now, AI civs get no bonus worker units until Emperor level, and no bonus settler units until Demigod level. Perhaps if AI civs got their first extra worker at Monarch level, and their first extra settler at Emperor level, they'd fare a bit better.
That having been said, though, I have to admit, I find your specific proposal intriguing. The idea of starting everyone with two settlers, but allowing no one to build any more "right off the bat," has potential....
This I'm going to leave as is. Settlers can already get anywhere they need to, so long as they're willing to wait for workers to build roads.
I seem to recall this point being brought up in the distant past. Unfortunately, though, it's not something I can adjust. It's possible for a mod to alter the maximum number of turns that AI civs will have to endure anarchy at various difficultly levels, but there's no way to adjust it for the human player.
But on this point, I'll conveniently decide to favor realism over playability, anyway. After all, revolutions are not things that should be undertaken lightly.
Ack. I'll fix that. The Mayans previously couldn't build pikemen, as the basic stats of the javelin thrower are just as good, anyway. I changed that last week, when it occurred to me that as a Medieval unit, the pikeman *does* have an advantage in that it gets a bonus hit point. But I didn't notice that the units had the same cost when I decided to allow that upgrade.
-- Darryl
That's why it's nice to have other folk playtesting my changes.Bluekkis said:
A less drastic change might be to "help out" the AI a bit. Right now, AI civs get no bonus worker units until Emperor level, and no bonus settler units until Demigod level. Perhaps if AI civs got their first extra worker at Monarch level, and their first extra settler at Emperor level, they'd fare a bit better.
That having been said, though, I have to admit, I find your specific proposal intriguing. The idea of starting everyone with two settlers, but allowing no one to build any more "right off the bat," has potential....
This I'm going to leave as is. Settlers can already get anywhere they need to, so long as they're willing to wait for workers to build roads.
I seem to recall this point being brought up in the distant past. Unfortunately, though, it's not something I can adjust. It's possible for a mod to alter the maximum number of turns that AI civs will have to endure anarchy at various difficultly levels, but there's no way to adjust it for the human player.
But on this point, I'll conveniently decide to favor realism over playability, anyway. After all, revolutions are not things that should be undertaken lightly.
Ack. I'll fix that. The Mayans previously couldn't build pikemen, as the basic stats of the javelin thrower are just as good, anyway. I changed that last week, when it occurred to me that as a Medieval unit, the pikeman *does* have an advantage in that it gets a bonus hit point. But I didn't notice that the units had the same cost when I decided to allow that upgrade.
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
Slyk said:
An improvement or wonder can only be set to expire when a tech is discovered; there's no way to set it to expire when a different wonder is built. (If there were, I'd have the Great Library expire when the Encyclopedia is built, and the Encyclopedia expire when the World-Wide Web is built. It'd make perfect sense, at least to me!)
That being said, having Slave Trade expire with Industrialization, the tech which *allows* Universal Suffrage, probably makes as much sense as anything else that doesn't involve an entirely new tech.
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Actually, Oligarchy also gets rid of the tile penalty, and is available a bit sooner, requiring only a quick sidestep from the path that leads to Monarchy, anyway.
The whole reason I added the Advanced Settler with a population cost of just one was to address the very problem you're bringing up, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I just *DON'T* want a one-population settler unit available at all. Even with a high shield cost, it still undermines the whole "slow expansion" thrust of the mod.
Another very interesting idea was suggested earlier this evening, which would (at least indirectly) help this issue. What do you think of the idea of doing away with "cheap" settlers completely, and allowing no settlers to be built before Expansionism is researched, but starting each civ with two settler units instead of just one? That would allow you to found your capital immediately, but also allow you the luxury of looking for a more fertile spot for your second city; either or both could later start producing more settlers, once you've gotten around to researching Expansionism.
I like the idea, though for simplicity's sake, I'll probably merge your improvements into a single "spa" improvement.
Did you happen to have graphics handy?
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
ARGH!
The "two settlers" idea won't fly, without refinement. The only way I can change the number of starting units is to set custom player data as well as custom rules, which would have the unfortunate side effect of "locking" the number of players without regard to the world size.
(The rest of this post has been deleted, as the proposals I was making turned out to be impractical.)
-- Darryl
The "two settlers" idea won't fly, without refinement. The only way I can change the number of starting units is to set custom player data as well as custom rules, which would have the unfortunate side effect of "locking" the number of players without regard to the world size.
(The rest of this post has been deleted, as the proposals I was making turned out to be impractical.)
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
(Post deleted, since the proposal was impractical.)
-- Darryl
-- Darryl
I absolutely love what I've seen of this mod, but I've got a problem and I keep getting this error:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/damn.gif
I've downloaded the patch for Conquests. Deleted the mod, re-downloaded the zipped files and reloaded the mod into the Scenarios folder twice and I'm still getting this error.
Any ideas?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/damn.gif
I've downloaded the patch for Conquests. Deleted the mod, re-downloaded the zipped files and reloaded the mod into the Scenarios folder twice and I'm still getting this error.
Any ideas?
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
p.bubel said:
Either the BBW scenario file and folder aren't actually in the "Scenarios" folder, where they belong, or the "Middle Ages" conquest file and folder aren't in the "Conquests" folder, where *they* belong....
If everything's present and located correctly, the game shouldn't have any trouble finding the files it needs.
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
(Another deleted impractical idea.)
-- Darryl
-- Darryl
Thanks DB.
The BBW appears to be in the right place:
CivIII/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds
And the Conquest files appear to be in the right place:
CivIII/Conquests/Conquests/MiddleAges/Art/Units/Spy
Wait, should the BBW be under the Conquests Scenarios or original CivIII scenarios? Could this be my problem?
Thanks for you patience with all of us.
The BBW appears to be in the right place:
CivIII/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds
And the Conquest files appear to be in the right place:
CivIII/Conquests/Conquests/MiddleAges/Art/Units/Spy
Wait, should the BBW be under the Conquests Scenarios or original CivIII scenarios? Could this be my problem?
Thanks for you patience with all of us.
Bluekkis
Chieftain
DB_in_Omaha said:
This definately would help up AI bit, and it currently needs all help it needs.
DB_in_Omaha said:
After bit of thinking, I don't think this is such a good idea after all. With it expansionism would become one of the most important techs in game.. but how can AI know it? With all the years I've played civ3 I've learned that AI tends to research tech in certain pattern. I don't know how versatile AI code is on techs, can it evaluate expansionism important enough to research it fast enough? As I noticed that it dosen't really value pottery enough in this mod.
In my game I encountered egyptians on a mid sized island. They had river, hills and few lakes too and mostly grassland. Fairly good place to expand but stil when I found them... in late MA... they had 2 cities. They definately could expand as they had 2, but why only 2? They we're still on despotism and and they had "terraformed" with bunch of roads and mines, no irrigation even with capitol next to river. I don't really have that much experience with modding to know how well AI can work with modified tech tree. But I can't really get any other solution to why they haven't irrigated. I conquered them and settled that island so I can't check anymore what level of tech they actually had, not too high I think since they were on their own and only with 2 citys.
EDIT:
I thought 255x255 was max size for a map? Yes you can set it that big but it will downgrade to 255 (or 254) when saved. In anycase, maps that big should be played only on least land options. Otherwise max amount of cities cap will be reached fast. (I've done that few times, pissed the hell out of me)
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
p.bubel said:
That should be:
CivIII/Conquests/Scenarios/Bigger, Better Worlds
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
woodelf said:
Yes, just download the whole thing again; as the files aren't really all that big, anyway, I don't bother with "patch" versions.
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
Bluekkis said:
362x362 is the max map size, apparently, and 31 civs is the max number of players.
BUT....
As it turns out, the whole point is moot.
I just can't catch a break on this.
I was just doing a bit of playing, and it turns out that by setting custom scenario data, you're not just locking in a certain number of players, you're locking in *8* players. Period. No more.
*Sigh*
-- Darryl
EDIT 2005/08/01: Actually, you *can* (as I should have realized) define the number of players in the scenario; it's just done on a different page than the one I was looking at.
But as I've gone in a different direction on the whole "early settlers and despotism" issue, anyway, it really doesn't matter much.DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to myself, but what the hell.
OK, looking at things from a different angle....
The problem I'm having is that I'm trying to come up with a way to handle settlers which manages both to accommodate my desire to slow initial expansion, and to work around the fact that the increased food consumption requirements, when added to the despotism tile penalty, prevent some cities from growing much or at all. Unfortunately, those ends are damned near mutually exclusive.
So what if, instead of trying to finagle the settlers, I finagle despotism instead?
If the despotism tile penalty was removed, the problem of cities being stuck at size 2 would no longer exist. But the increased food consumption requirements that already exist would still tend to keep growth slow. As well, if I made workers only 50% rather than 100% efficient under despotism, it would serve both to rebalance despotism as an "undesireable" government in the absence of the tile penalty, and serve as an additional mechanism to keep initial expansion at a reasonable rate.
Comments?
-- Darryl
OK, looking at things from a different angle....
The problem I'm having is that I'm trying to come up with a way to handle settlers which manages both to accommodate my desire to slow initial expansion, and to work around the fact that the increased food consumption requirements, when added to the despotism tile penalty, prevent some cities from growing much or at all. Unfortunately, those ends are damned near mutually exclusive.
So what if, instead of trying to finagle the settlers, I finagle despotism instead?
If the despotism tile penalty was removed, the problem of cities being stuck at size 2 would no longer exist. But the increased food consumption requirements that already exist would still tend to keep growth slow. As well, if I made workers only 50% rather than 100% efficient under despotism, it would serve both to rebalance despotism as an "undesireable" government in the absence of the tile penalty, and serve as an additional mechanism to keep initial expansion at a reasonable rate.
Comments?
-- Darryl
Sounds doable DB. Your monologue is proceeding nicely.
If you can eliminate the AI getting stuck with 1 city until they get conquered and balance your desire for slowed expansion it would be a great deed. The human can always Ctrl-Shift-Q when put in a bad spot. Not that I'd do that......
If you can eliminate the AI getting stuck with 1 city until they get conquered and balance your desire for slowed expansion it would be a great deed. The human can always Ctrl-Shift-Q when put in a bad spot. Not that I'd do that......
I think the idea of removing the despotism tile penalty is good. With the increased food consumption the growth is already slow anyway.
The AI seems to research in a pattern, though, and sometimes it gets stuck with a few cities.
Btw, it's a great mod to play. Thanks!
The AI seems to research in a pattern, though, and sometimes it gets stuck with a few cities.
Btw, it's a great mod to play. Thanks!
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
UPDATE
Version 2005/07/31:
- Removed the tile penalty from Despotism, but reduced its worker rate.
- Reduced some tiles' food production just a bit, since there's no longer
a tile penalty to work around in the early game.
- Removed tech prerequisites from some resources and "toned down" most
resource benefits a bit.
- Added units: Early Tank, Ocean Curragh.
- Removed Advanced Settler unit and Expansionism tech from the game.
- Increased Colonist population cost from 4 to 5.
- Decreased Mayan Javelin Thrower shield cost to 25.
- Removed the upgrade path from Privateers to Destoyers. (Piracy is, when
all is said and done, a dead-end career.)
- Added improvement: Baths.
- Revised the trait-specific small wonders, so that all eight of them have
prerequisite city improvements. Also tweaked the effects a bit; most
notably, Great Harbor now produces Ocean Curraghs (OK, yes, the name
sucks), and Military Headquarters produces Warriors.
- Replaced Lenin's Tomb with Soviet War Memorial, since I found a great
war memorial Wonder splash by "Rufus T. Firefly," and hadn't found a
good pic yet of Lenin's tomb....
- Adjusted Machiavelli's Il Principe to produce assassins every 15 turns
instead of than every 10.
- Set Slave Trade to expire with Industrialization rather than Medicine.
- Moved Brothel from Code of Law to Polytheism. (Early prostitution was,
after all, often tied to religious practices.)
- Helped out the AI civs by giving them each their first extra starting
worker at Monarch level rather than Emperor, and their first extra
starting settler at Emperor level rather than Demigod.
- Updated/corrected a few other graphics files and Civilopedia entries.
-- Darryl
Version 2005/07/31:
- Removed the tile penalty from Despotism, but reduced its worker rate.
- Reduced some tiles' food production just a bit, since there's no longer
a tile penalty to work around in the early game.
- Removed tech prerequisites from some resources and "toned down" most
resource benefits a bit.
- Added units: Early Tank, Ocean Curragh.
- Removed Advanced Settler unit and Expansionism tech from the game.
- Increased Colonist population cost from 4 to 5.
- Decreased Mayan Javelin Thrower shield cost to 25.
- Removed the upgrade path from Privateers to Destoyers. (Piracy is, when
all is said and done, a dead-end career.)
- Added improvement: Baths.
- Revised the trait-specific small wonders, so that all eight of them have
prerequisite city improvements. Also tweaked the effects a bit; most
notably, Great Harbor now produces Ocean Curraghs (OK, yes, the name
sucks), and Military Headquarters produces Warriors.
- Replaced Lenin's Tomb with Soviet War Memorial, since I found a great
war memorial Wonder splash by "Rufus T. Firefly," and hadn't found a
good pic yet of Lenin's tomb....
- Adjusted Machiavelli's Il Principe to produce assassins every 15 turns
instead of than every 10.
- Set Slave Trade to expire with Industrialization rather than Medicine.
- Moved Brothel from Code of Law to Polytheism. (Early prostitution was,
after all, often tied to religious practices.)
- Helped out the AI civs by giving them each their first extra starting
worker at Monarch level rather than Emperor, and their first extra
starting settler at Emperor level rather than Demigod.
- Updated/corrected a few other graphics files and Civilopedia entries.
-- Darryl
