New modding info (6/25) Bitmob interview with Jon Shafer

[mjs0]

Bitmob have put up their full interview with Jon Shafer at E3, and it contains a lot of new information on both modding tools and in-game access to mods.

On the in-game mod browser:

You’ll be able to rate mods
You’ll be able to sort by what has the most thumbs up.
You’ll be able to see what people really like and sort by type of mod.
You can sort for just maps, for certain tags, like World War 2, or whatever you want.
You’ll be able to enable, disable, and install whatever you want. (mod management from the browser)

On more complex mods:

Something that we’re going to be releasing is the gameplay SDK, which is the game code. It’s the same thing that we did with Civ 4.

On the world builder tool:

You can generate random maps from within the world builder and then tweak them if you want to just set up something. You can make a scenario out of it. You can put units and cities and other stuff down. You can change diplomacy -- who’s at war with whom -- all sorts of things like that.
At the base, it’s a map builder, but there are all sorts of other things attached to it.

The tools sound OK, but the key point for me was that Jon confirms the gamecode will once more be available as an SDK just as it was in Civ4.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Sounds good to me - he also confirms modular elements.

 

[Thunderfall]

Weird... the link seems broken.

Thanks for posting it, mjs0!

 

[mjs0]

Weird... the link seems broken.

Hmmm...it looks like they took it down.

If you go to google and search on "site:bitmob.com e3 2010 civilization shafer" it does show up in the results but the link still doesn't work and it is not in Google's cache.

 

[deanej]

Sounds good to me - he also confirms modular elements.

Can you give a quote? I can't get to the article. I sure hope this isn't true, though - if it is, total conversion mods are sunk and we're stuck will less elegant XML.

 

[Afforess]

Can you give a quote? I can't get to the article. I sure hope this isn't true, though - if it is, total conversion mods are sunk and we're stuck will less elegant XML.

Best Case Scenario: It lists mods that are incompatible with one another, and will alert the user to disable the incompatible ones.

Worst Case Scenario: CFC is going to become a lot more important if you want to get more than an extra civic or building.

 

[Ahriman]

I'm guessing that centrally run mods would only be able to have one mod installed at a time?
So there would be high demand for "bundled" mods, like RevDCM.

 

[mjs0]

Best Case Scenario: It lists mods that are incompatible with one another, and will alert the user to disable the incompatible ones.

Worst Case Scenario: CFC is going to become a lot more important if you want to get more than an extra civic or building.

I didn't make a copy of the article before they took it down (won't make that mistake again!!) but there was a question about this.

As I recall, towards the bottom of page1, Jon was asked if the in-game browser would support multiple mods with conflicts, to which he responded no (with some extra details that I forget).
The follow up question asked if would at least be able to flag incompatible mods, to which he responded that he wasn't sure.

Maybe someone else who read the article can remember more clearly.

 

[Afforess]

Good news and bad news. Google had cached the article, which I promptly downloaded. Unfortuanlty, the second page of the article is lost to time, as google only cached page 1.

Page One Can Be Found Here.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Can you give a quote? I can't get to the article. I sure hope this isn't true, though - if it is, total conversion mods are sunk and we're stuck will less elegant XML.

The one does not follow from the other. You can have both. The quotation is lost in time, but Shafer indicated that you would be able to mix and match compatible mods from the browser. His "I'm not sure" comment was in regards to whether or not the mod launcher would warn you of mod incompatibility or not. He noted that they had a dedicated employee (as in: this was his sole responsibility) working on the mod browser and that it wasn't finished yet - thus he didn't know if warning functionality was/would be included.

Given the fact that Shafer continually references Fall from Heaven when discussing the great mods the community has created, it seems pretty obvious that they value total conversion mods. He also (not sure which article it was) specifically noted that the civ modding community has managed to create entirely different games from previous versions of civ, and that they are including the mod browser to bring greater exposure to the mods.

He has also confirmed release of the SDK. I think total conversion mods are pretty safe.

 

[djc5]

Jon Shafer: You can import Civ 4 maps into the world builder and convert them into Civ 5 maps, including all the units and cities and stuff on it -- the conversion process will just do that for you automatically. We’re hoping that the first week Civ 5 is out, people will use that function and port all of the Civ 4 stuff over to Civ 5, so everything will be out there already.

How do you suppose they'll import square tiles to a hex map? I imagine they can use some mathemagical transform technique, but porting maps/scenarios into a different tileset, and then balancing for completely different game mechanics, certainly seems like it will take more than a week.

 

[Afforess]

Squares can transform into hexes easily.

 

[djc5]

Squares can transform into hexes easily.

OK, fair enough, but at least the second half my point stands. Simply doing the transform doesn't mean that the result will be usable in the context of a completely reworked game. Could be a cool feature for just importing maps, though.

 

[djc5]

Bitmob: If a conflict arises between mods, will users be able to resolve them easily from the browser?

JS: The browser itself is not designed to resolve conflicts, unfortunately. We’ve tried to design the mod system such that modular elements are possible and combinable, but if somebody changes one unit’s strength value and another mod changes that same value to something else, then there’ll obviously be a problem with that.

Bitmob: Does the browser at least notify the user that a conflict may exist?

JS: I’m not sure.

Hmm. Seems like to make the browser at all useful, they should probably get the conflict alert in there before release.

 

[Thyrwyn]

thanks djc5

 

[[KC]Bantams]

thankyou CFC I ranted about the invisible link for a few hours at tk2 wpc and the League forums yesterday everytime I posted the invisible link at tk2 it got deleted

so thanks

 

[trineas]

Good news and bad news. Google had cached the article, which I promptly downloaded. Unfortuanlty, the second page of the article is lost to time, as google only cached page 1.

Page One Can Be Found Here.

Page 2



Bitmob: Starcraft 2 boasts robust modding capabilities, and Blizzard has shown off the game as a third-person shooter or a survival-horror adventure. Do the Civ 5 modding tools allow players to do similar things and create entirely different experiences?

JS: It’s definitely possible. Something that we’re going to be releasing is the gameplay SDK, which is the game code. It’s the same thing that we did with Civ 4.

And people who are really into it can actually rewrite the A.I. and the game rules. You can do just about anything that you want, as long as you change a lot of the core graphics stuff. With Civ 4, for example, modders have done some really cool things, and it'll be the same with Civ 5. It’s going to be just as powerful.


Bitmob: So are there any types of games that players might expect to find in the mod browser that are different from Civilization itself?

JS: It’s hard to say right now. We’ll have to see what people make. I don’t know if you’ve heard of a mod called Fall from Heaven. We’re definitely excited about mods like that, and certainly things of that scope where you can change the genre dramatically to something completely different. And that’s the standard now for fantasy strategy games.

Obviously, it’s all on the modders. We want to enable them, and we’ll see what they come up with.


Bitmob: Do you have anything else about Civ 5’s modding capabilities that might interest players?

JS: Something that I personally think is really cool is the stand-alone world builder. This is something we’ve talked a little bit about before, but it’s incredibly powerful.

It has undo and redo. You can import Civ 4 maps into the world builder and convert them into Civ 5 maps, including all the units and cities and stuff on it -- the conversion process will just do that for you automatically. We’re hoping that the first week Civ 5 is out, people will use that function and port all of the Civ 4 stuff over to Civ 5, so everything will be out there already.

The world builder is something that we’re really, really excited about. It’s very powerful, it’s stand alone, and it’ll be really easy for people to just jump in and start playing around with things.

You can generate random maps from within the world builder and then tweak them if you want to just set up something. You can make a scenario out of it. You can put units and cities and other stuff down. You can change diplomacy -- who’s at war with whom -- all sorts of things like that.

At the base, it’s a map builder, but there are all sorts of other things attached to it.

 

[jfuesting]

OK, fair enough, but at least the second half my point stands. Simply doing the transform doesn't mean that the result will be usable in the context of a completely reworked game. Could be a cool feature for just importing maps, though.

I'm scratching my head about the units, as combat and units have been completely reworked. As far as the maps go though, I'm thinking it would be a lot less hassle to go over and touch up an imported map, than starting again from scratch.