New Module: D'tesh - Water Flavor

[Swinkscalibur]

As discussed in another thread, IMHO the Legion of D'tesh were lacking in water flavor and strategy. For a Civ, based on the master of Necromancy they had no power over the living things in the sea. This module changes that. (Valk if you like it feel free to include it in the main mod.)

The only thing this mod still needs is custom art for the Pyre Barge. (The Cremation Boats could use new button art. The improvement uses the fishing boat art, but because they give infused ash there is smoke coming from the tile so the art is unique in a way) Unfortunately I have no interest/time to learn the art side of things, if someone wants to suggest/make anything I'd be happy to include it.

This module is compatible with the latest patch of RifE - 1.22.2

Here is what is added.

Spoiler :

1. New Improvement - Cremation Boats +1 , +1
   • Gains an additional +1 , +1 with both Necromancy and Arcane Lore
   • Only buildable on fish, shrimp, clam, crab, kelp or kelp forest.
   • Provides Infused ash
2. New Unit - Pyre Barge (Arcane Barge UU) - 6 (+4 Death ), 4
   • Requires both Astronomy and Sorcery
   • Starts with Fire 2, Shadow 1, Wind 1 and Arcane Crew
   • Can build Cremation Boats

Changelog

Spoiler :

• Version 1.01 - Cremation Boats now destroy Kelp and Kelp Forests (still give Infused Ash)
• Version 1 - Added Cremation Boats improvement and Pyre Barge unit

Here is the lasted version (v1.01): View attachment DTeshWater v1-01.zip

 

[Valkrionn]

I'll definitely be doing something like this; May change the names (though I don't have any better ideas atm), but this is a good base.

One thing... Kelp/Kelp Forest are features, not resources. Not sure they should be part of it.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Feel free to change the names if you include it. Also I will probably attempt to do some base coding for my other two recent ideas: A Great Statesman (as a settled Adventurer) and levels of explorable ruins. (the second will be easier because I am a tester with access to Worker Promos - promos can add to workrate right?)

On that note: What's the easiest way to initiate python after the "chopping" of a feature? Also is there an easy way using xml to "chop" a feature into another feature (ie. unexplored ruins -> surveyed ruins). Or would I have to use the python called in the result to place a surveyed ruins on the plot?

 

[Valkrionn]

Feel free to change the names if you include it. Also I will probably attempt to do some base coding for my other two recent ideas: A Great Statesman (as a settled Adventurer) and levels of explorable ruins. (the second will be easier because I am a tester with access to Worker Promos - promos can add to workrate right?)

On that note: What's the easiest way to initiate python after the "chopping" of a feature? Also is there an easy way using xml to "chop" a feature into another feature (ie. unexplored ruins -> surveyed ruins). Or would I have to use the python called in the result to place a surveyed ruins on the plot?

Promotions can affect workrate, yes; Both of those modules would have to be released in the tester's group though, as neither mechanics are publicly available yet.

For the 'chopping'... The way to do it would be like this:

When on the same tile as a dungeon/lair/whatever (Need to duplicate this for each type, so be prepared for lots of xml), the unit gains a promotion allowing it to 'build' the next level of lair. By doing this, you automatically remove the other, as they are improvements; no need to chop. Then, in python, use either onImprovementBuilt (for the new one) or onImprovementDestroyed (for the old one) and place the code you want; Most likely a line calling the explore spell for now, unless you want to rewrite all of that.
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So... No chopping needed at all, it's just building a standard improvement.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Then, in python, use either onImprovementBuilt (for the new one) or onImprovementDestroyed (for the old one) and place the code you want; Most likely a line calling the explore spell for now, unless you want to rewrite all of that.
[/INDENT]So... No chopping needed at all, it's just building a standard improvement.

Great, for some reason I thought the ruins where a feature. This makes it much easier. Also I can make the mod for the current version, but it would require going through and editing every recon unit in the game, ugh. So ya, a few autoacquire effect promotions it will be (simply requiring the proper unitcombat/unitclass, I'll have to see if I can track down all the recon heros because I want to set different unitclasses to have different workrates). Hopefully you will just incorperate my work into the main mod, so I don't have to try and maintain a non-module mod.

 

[Aoleleb]

Kelp = Plant = Living material = Can be burnt and used in my opinion. Keep them on Kelp.

 

[Valkrionn]

My point is that it's a Feature; Switching the bonus to Ash isn't enough to remove it, like all other uses it has. Would need to have a 'chop' for it.

Also, the same logic could be applied to Forests, Jungles, Scrubs, etc. That's a matter of balance; Ash is a very good thing to have, so being able to get it from features as well as organic resources could be too much.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Perhaps, I can definitely apply a quick "chopping" mechanism. It's as simple as having the improvement remove the kelp/kelp forest when built. Not really sure if that solves the problem that your thinking about though (I'm guess you're thinking there could be too much ash).

Honestly, I tried this out myself several times I don't think it is that overpowered. The ability to build the Cremation Boats doesn't come unit both Astronomy and Sorcery are researched. Water tiles are essentially useless until this point so most people will try and avoid settling near too much water anyway. That's why I think this is mostly flavor. The only way it becomes strategy is if you happen to start near water tiles that are covered in kelp (did not happen to me once, in fact the water was always a ways off and never had much in the way of any living things in it). On top of this, being agnostic, the only way the D'tesh will see Kelp Forests is through conquest of FoL civs) That being said, the Kelp itself only provides food, which is useless. For all the work and planning that would go into the D'tesh building a super water city, I think that it's not overpowered. As for numbers I never had more than 5 additional ash sources that I could also "work" (my average was 3 and I was aiming in that direction). I Think total I had about 8 additional ash resources total (workable and just connected) in one game, but not until much later in the game. At that point, I thought it was flavorful and didn't have a very large impact on the game.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, it could be fine; I just think that allowing a feature to be Ashed will cause people to wonder why they can't Ash forests, or jungle.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

They can build other improvements over forest and jungle. If it's the ash that's a problem, and it stays a problem in your opinion (even after a play test or two) then I can simply split the improvement into two. One which provides ash and one which doesn't.

To be honest, I wasn't originally counting on getting ash from kelp, I thought the BonusConvert tag would only work if there was a bonus to convert. But I guess its more of a ProvideBonus tag that overwrites any bonus that might also be on the tile.

Basically, I wanted the improvement to be limited to tiles with living things on them, but I thought that without the features it just seemed to insignificant. I wanted it to be powerful enough to tempt people to go down the water line. Which on the EC map is usually not necessary (especially as D'Tesh)

Edit: Also the forest and stuff doesn't last long at all in D'tesh land anyway, in a matter of turns its scrubs and then haunted lands, which seems undead to me already, and provide a very decent bonus already as well. Another idea would be to make the Cremation Boats only work on the bonuses, but have Kelp transform into Haunted Kelp Forests in D'tesh lands. Have the new feature provide +1 and +1 or something.

 

[Valkrionn]

They can build other improvements over forest and jungle. If it's the ash that's a problem, and it stays a problem in your opinion (even after a play test or two) then I can simply split the improvement into two. One which provides ash and one which doesn't.

To be honest, I wasn't originally counting on getting ash from kelp, I thought the BonusConvert tag would only work if there was a bonus to convert. But I guess its more of a ProvideBonus tag that overwrites any bonus that might also be on the tile.

Basically, I wanted the improvement to be limited to tiles with living things on them, but I thought that without the features it just seemed to insignificant. I wanted it to be powerful enough to tempt people to go down the water line. Which on the EC map is usually not necessary (especially as D'Tesh)

Edit: Also the forest and stuff doesn't last long at all in D'tesh land anyway, in a matter of turns its scrubs and then haunted lands, which seems undead to me already, and provide a very decent bonus already as well. Another idea would be to make the Cremation Boats only work on the bonuses, but have Kelp transform into Haunted Kelp Forests in D'tesh lands. Have the new feature provide +1 and +1 or something.

Yeah, BonusConvert is more of a BonusPlace tag; It only 'converts' because any bonus on the tile is replaced automatically.

Your comment on Haunted Lands has me thinking that you may be right, though; Forests give a bonus as well, just not ash. So two options present themselves:

1. Ash Kelp, make sure the kelp is 'chopped' by the build order.
2. Only Ash living resources, allow Kelp to become something like Haunted Lands.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Which are you leaning toward.

I know #1 is much easier. (Changing a 0 to a 1 will do it) Option #2 means art (Care to do another recoloring of kelp? ) as well as coding the change based on the climate system (I'm not even sure how this is done, is it XML?)

 

[Valkrionn]

Which are you leaning toward.

I know #1 is much easier. (Changing a 0 to a 1 will do it) Option #2 means art (Care to do another recoloring of kelp? ) as well as coding the change based on the climate system (I'm not even sure how this is done, is it XML?)

I'd stick with #1 for now; Even if just replacing Kelp with Haunted Lands, it's not currently possible for the climate system. Mostly because coast is an oceanic climate, and does not change; Conversion of Forests to HL occurs when climate changes, so it makes it rather difficult to pull off.

I'll be looking at merging Ahwaric's civ-specific feature upgrade, see if I can get that to work alongside religion upgrades.

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Updated first post with newest version. Cremation Boats now destroy Kelp and Kelp Forests.

Future Options - Leave Cremation Boats for living resources (not features) have Kelp turn to a Haunted Lands like analog. (Not yet possible as a module)

Side Note: Valk, how hard would it be to extend the climate system to coast/ocean. It seems that would be a helpful way to have impassable ice melt/form as well as having kelp transform.