New NES Ideas?
- Thread starter Gelion
- Start date
Gelion
Retired Captain
Well I got bored of posting diplomacy and orders in some NESes so I decided to open my third one. It will be set in the alternative history middle ages. I want to make some stuff up, but for now I'm deciding on which map to use - world or european...
das
Regeneration In Process
WORLD! But will we play on country-level or feudal-level? I.e. how will Feudalism be imitated? And what is the POD (if you need any ideas, I have huge stores of them)?
Gelion
Retired Captain
well its the world when the feudal system is just being formed somewhere around 900-1000 in real history.
I'd love an alternative Europe setup with some more Roman influence and different nomades invading. I trust you can take it from here
.
I'd love an alternative Europe setup with some more Roman influence and different nomades invading. I trust you can take it from here
.
das
Regeneration In Process
Could the "alternativeness" expand to Middle East as well?
Interestingly enough, this may not qualify, but my "Atilla" timeline (setting of NES2 II) seems to be similar at some points - some parts of Europe are "feudalizing", the rest are "absolutizing", there is heavy Roman influence and even a Roman Republic in Italia and the Slavic Horde overran Germannia, Pannonnia and much of the Balkansk, while the Tarunists begin to menace pretty much everybody and the Cretan-Berber alliance rules the waves.
Interestingly enough, this may not qualify, but my "Atilla" timeline (setting of NES2 II) seems to be similar at some points - some parts of Europe are "feudalizing", the rest are "absolutizing", there is heavy Roman influence and even a Roman Republic in Italia and the Slavic Horde overran Germannia, Pannonnia and much of the Balkansk, while the Tarunists begin to menace pretty much everybody and the Cretan-Berber alliance rules the waves.
Gelion
Retired Captain
Sure please post it 
Although (important) I want to make this a "building NES" like North's...
Although (important) I want to make this a "building NES" like North's...
das
Regeneration In Process
As in "power-building-up-from-scratch"? The Attila Timeline is very long, and I think I already attached it somewhere.
das
Regeneration In Process
To hell with that. I have a better alt. hist. idea, if you will accept it.
I will now write up this new scenario. It is based on Belisarius becoming the Western Roman Emperor (he only holds Italy, Dalmatia, Sicily and Carthage area, but it still makes him important).
I will now write up this new scenario. It is based on Belisarius becoming the Western Roman Emperor (he only holds Italy, Dalmatia, Sicily and Carthage area, but it still makes him important).
Jason The King
Deity
I think it would be awesome to have much of the NES community in one NES. And then there will be 15 or so other positions within the country. Ministry of Defense, Ministry of the Navy, Ministry of Strategic Resources, and so on. The emperor would be voted in ever four or so turns. There would be generals, admirals, and just regular senators from the provinces as well. And then they would expand the empire and have regular AI be against them, etc.
This could possibly be played in a civ game. Turns would be one a day, since the MOD has little to do with the game.
Who would be interested? I could write up some more exclusive rules today if people are interested.
This could possibly be played in a civ game. Turns would be one a day, since the MOD has little to do with the game.
Who would be interested? I could write up some more exclusive rules today if people are interested.
das
Regeneration In Process
Interesting, but doesn't it sound abit like either Democracy Games, either like the "one country NES" which is about to start?
Jason The King
Deity
yup, it does.
das
Regeneration In Process
Gelion:
In 533, Belisarius, one of the greatest Byzantine and Roman general ever, utterly crushed the Vandal kingdom in North Africa. From there, in 535, after a triumphal parade back in Constantinople, Belisarius landed in Sicily and quickly captured the island. In a hard campaign on Italy itself, Belisarius captured Naples and Rome itself. After fending back a ferocious Ostrogoth assault on Rome, Belisarius pressed on and captured Ravenna by 540. The Ostrogoth nobles offered their capitulation... if Belisarius was to become their emperor. Belisarius was too loyal to Justinian to accept that - despite the obvious lack of confidence from Justinian and his clear provocation of Belisarius.
So, lets suppose that sometimes during the Italian Campaign, something snapped. Belisarius realized that he was being played for a fool by Justinian, and decides that loyalty is loyalty, but enough is enough. In 540, Belisarius is crowned the "Italian Emperor". He then routed several Byzantine armies, with many troops defecting to him as well. This allowed him to declare himself the Western Roman Emperor. Soon after, he also secured Carthage again. Justinian refused to acknowledge Belisarius, but could not do anything about it, especially as the Persians struck yet again.
(Note: Belisarius controls ALL of the former Lombard and Vandal territories, minus some Alpine lands given to the Franks in exchange for their ally. Thus, Provence and all of Dalmatia are his, as well as those lands captured by the Byzantines).
This new Italian (as to acknowledge the fact that apart from the Romans, there were also a lot of "non-Latin Italians") or Western Roman Empire was very compact, as to avoid overstretching it, yet efficient. It allied with the Franks, fended back the Lombards (who due to this chose to migrate into the Balkans instead of Italia) and pitted different Visgoth factions against each other to conquer parts of South Iberia. This empire endured a lot.
The Franks were not as interested in fighting the Visgoths as in OTL, though they still acquired Acquitaine with time. Rather, they expanded to the northeast, clashing with the Saxons early on. Eventually, after Clothar's death, the overstretched Frankish Empire was divided into Neustria (NW), Austrasia (NE), Burgundia (SE) and Acquitania (SW). They maintained a Holy Roman Empire-type alliance, yet too themselves begun to somehow fragment (developing feudalism).
The Muslims had to face a Byzantine Empire which was not as overstretched and as poor. They still won, though, taking the Holy Land, Syria and Egypt, yet the Christian world was saved as the Byzantines fought back a maritime siege of Constantinople and the Italians (also called Romans as opposed to Byzantines) defeated the Arab expansion at Leptis Magna in 697. Arab Caliphate, thus, turned to southward expansion down the Nile and the Red Sea and eastward expansion, conquering parts of India and clashing with the Chinese (like in OTL, only here the Muslims expand even further east, facing the Tibetians as well).
Visgothia still somehow survived, thus, though still fragmented and losing much of its Mediterranean coast to Italia.
British Isles are the same as in OTL.
Avars, Lombards and Balkan Bulgars all invaded and seized a lot of the Balkans, including even parts of Greece (Avaria takes Albania, Serbia and Macedonnia (the real one AND the Yugoslav one), Bulgaris takes Eastern Bulgaria and Wallachia, Lombards are in between).
Khazars, due to the weaker Arabs, are still more Caucasus-centric, their capital is still somewhere in Caucasus and they hold much of Transcaucasia.
This "European Order" lasted until 800 AD, when the Vikings struck.
Do you want me to extend this to 900 AD, or is it good enough as it is?
And please, make it "world".
In 533, Belisarius, one of the greatest Byzantine and Roman general ever, utterly crushed the Vandal kingdom in North Africa. From there, in 535, after a triumphal parade back in Constantinople, Belisarius landed in Sicily and quickly captured the island. In a hard campaign on Italy itself, Belisarius captured Naples and Rome itself. After fending back a ferocious Ostrogoth assault on Rome, Belisarius pressed on and captured Ravenna by 540. The Ostrogoth nobles offered their capitulation... if Belisarius was to become their emperor. Belisarius was too loyal to Justinian to accept that - despite the obvious lack of confidence from Justinian and his clear provocation of Belisarius.
So, lets suppose that sometimes during the Italian Campaign, something snapped. Belisarius realized that he was being played for a fool by Justinian, and decides that loyalty is loyalty, but enough is enough. In 540, Belisarius is crowned the "Italian Emperor". He then routed several Byzantine armies, with many troops defecting to him as well. This allowed him to declare himself the Western Roman Emperor. Soon after, he also secured Carthage again. Justinian refused to acknowledge Belisarius, but could not do anything about it, especially as the Persians struck yet again.
(Note: Belisarius controls ALL of the former Lombard and Vandal territories, minus some Alpine lands given to the Franks in exchange for their ally. Thus, Provence and all of Dalmatia are his, as well as those lands captured by the Byzantines).
This new Italian (as to acknowledge the fact that apart from the Romans, there were also a lot of "non-Latin Italians") or Western Roman Empire was very compact, as to avoid overstretching it, yet efficient. It allied with the Franks, fended back the Lombards (who due to this chose to migrate into the Balkans instead of Italia) and pitted different Visgoth factions against each other to conquer parts of South Iberia. This empire endured a lot.
The Franks were not as interested in fighting the Visgoths as in OTL, though they still acquired Acquitaine with time. Rather, they expanded to the northeast, clashing with the Saxons early on. Eventually, after Clothar's death, the overstretched Frankish Empire was divided into Neustria (NW), Austrasia (NE), Burgundia (SE) and Acquitania (SW). They maintained a Holy Roman Empire-type alliance, yet too themselves begun to somehow fragment (developing feudalism).
The Muslims had to face a Byzantine Empire which was not as overstretched and as poor. They still won, though, taking the Holy Land, Syria and Egypt, yet the Christian world was saved as the Byzantines fought back a maritime siege of Constantinople and the Italians (also called Romans as opposed to Byzantines) defeated the Arab expansion at Leptis Magna in 697. Arab Caliphate, thus, turned to southward expansion down the Nile and the Red Sea and eastward expansion, conquering parts of India and clashing with the Chinese (like in OTL, only here the Muslims expand even further east, facing the Tibetians as well).
Visgothia still somehow survived, thus, though still fragmented and losing much of its Mediterranean coast to Italia.
British Isles are the same as in OTL.
Avars, Lombards and Balkan Bulgars all invaded and seized a lot of the Balkans, including even parts of Greece (Avaria takes Albania, Serbia and Macedonnia (the real one AND the Yugoslav one), Bulgaris takes Eastern Bulgaria and Wallachia, Lombards are in between).
Khazars, due to the weaker Arabs, are still more Caucasus-centric, their capital is still somewhere in Caucasus and they hold much of Transcaucasia.
This "European Order" lasted until 800 AD, when the Vikings struck.
Do you want me to extend this to 900 AD, or is it good enough as it is?
And please, make it "world".
das
Regeneration In Process
Btw - would you oppose a possibility of a Viking Ireland discovering and holding on to Vinland?
Anyhow, I think I should be able to advance this to 900 AD, complete with Vikings, Magyars and a Greater Moravian Empire, as well as the division of the Arab Caliphate into four potential powerhouses.
Anyhow, I think I should be able to advance this to 900 AD, complete with Vikings, Magyars and a Greater Moravian Empire, as well as the division of the Arab Caliphate into four potential powerhouses.
das
Regeneration In Process
800-1000 AD. The Viking Age.
The Vikings behaved somewhat different the in OTL, due to the absence of a Carolingian Empire. They did not conquer Normandy, though they still burned down Paris (instead, a Viking became a Duke of Brittany, and some of them controlled the Frisian Islands for a short while). The Viking Storm hit Visgothia very hard, though, as a large army of Vikings burned down the nation's capital and gathered tribute until finally being forced out of their based in Lisboa in 866, after twenty years that crippled Visgothia for the rest of the century.
But the most long-standing Viking achievement was the birth of two brand new states: Kievan Rus (just like in OTL) and Viking Ireland, governed by an assimilated dynasty in Dublin. Viking Ireland (AKA Norseire) became a base of operations for further raids on Brittany and against Visgothia and Acquitania. Norseirean sailsmen reached as far as Iceland, and have heard of another island called Greenland, as well as distant myths of something even further west.
Neustria, Astrusia, Acquitania and Burgundia are still alive and "well". As they are not as overstretched as Charlemagne's empire, each one is able to take care of its own troubles... but is unable of reuniting the Frankish Empire, it would seem. Italian Empire suffered little from the Vikings, though the Berber nomads, recently converted to Islam, almost took Carthage. Italia is slightly stagnating, some say... Venice is a city-state republic under VERY NOMINAL Italian control (like in OTL, but with Italia instead of the Byzantines). The Pope does not control any real territory, but still has a lot of authority.
Visgothia is ruled by an almost-powerless king, who is a pawn in the power struggle between two main feudal houses - House Leovid and House Swanterhild, controlled by Duke of Lusitania and Duke of Asturia respectively. The reason that the king has ANY powers left AT ALL, even nominal ones, is that the two Houses are in a bitter struggle, allowing the more capable monarchs to play them off against each other.
Saxonnia and Bavaria are in control of parts of central Germany (east of Rhine, west of Oder). Further east, Sorbic Slavic tribes are dominant, and further still, there are Baltic Peoples. And then, there is the Kievan Rus...
In Pannonia, there is a new rising power - the newly-Orthodox Christian kingdom of Greater Mordovia, founded by Svyatopluk (historically a Mordovian duke who fought off Carolingian armies until being crushed by the Magyars).
Byzantine Empire is definitely recovering, having retaken the Avars and converted Bulgars and Lombards to Orthodox Christianity. In the "eastern front", it regained much of Syria and Armenia, while its Khazar allies are now threatening and occasionally attacking Persia. This was helped out by the recent break-up of the Arab Caliphate. It was divided into the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt, Sudan and the Holy Land, the (remaining) Abbasid Caliphate in Iraq and Arabia, the Zanzibari Emirate (in East Africa - you will probably have to edit in the island of Zanzibar on Jason-NK map) and the Parsi (sometimes called "Righteous") Shiite Caliphate in Persia and parts of India. Neither is particularily stable yet, but each has many possibilities.
Finally, we have the Magyars, Khazars and Kievan Rus. The Magyars still tried to conquer Pannonia, but as Moravia was alot stronger, it fended the Magyars back. Magyars were also raiding Khazar and Rus territory, but eventually, Svyatoslav II crushed them in a victorious campaign. Magyars scattered, some of them later serving as mercenaries in Khazaria. As of now, Kievan Rus has recently been converted to Orthodox Christianity... Khazaria avoided a serious clash with the Kievan Rus, as it never switched its center of power further north, as in OTL. It is a fairly stable and prospering state (fortified by the Mandate of Heavens and a well-trained standing army), even though the Caucasian Avars (future Chechens, interestingly enough) are being rather troublesome. Khazaria is the Byzantine Empire's only trustable ally. It holds a small strip of the Black Sea coast, including Crimea, some territory stretching to the eastern coast of the Caspian Sea and including the Astrakhan/Itil area, and, ofcourse, Caucasia.
The Vikings behaved somewhat different the in OTL, due to the absence of a Carolingian Empire. They did not conquer Normandy, though they still burned down Paris (instead, a Viking became a Duke of Brittany, and some of them controlled the Frisian Islands for a short while). The Viking Storm hit Visgothia very hard, though, as a large army of Vikings burned down the nation's capital and gathered tribute until finally being forced out of their based in Lisboa in 866, after twenty years that crippled Visgothia for the rest of the century.
But the most long-standing Viking achievement was the birth of two brand new states: Kievan Rus (just like in OTL) and Viking Ireland, governed by an assimilated dynasty in Dublin. Viking Ireland (AKA Norseire) became a base of operations for further raids on Brittany and against Visgothia and Acquitania. Norseirean sailsmen reached as far as Iceland, and have heard of another island called Greenland, as well as distant myths of something even further west.
Neustria, Astrusia, Acquitania and Burgundia are still alive and "well". As they are not as overstretched as Charlemagne's empire, each one is able to take care of its own troubles... but is unable of reuniting the Frankish Empire, it would seem. Italian Empire suffered little from the Vikings, though the Berber nomads, recently converted to Islam, almost took Carthage. Italia is slightly stagnating, some say... Venice is a city-state republic under VERY NOMINAL Italian control (like in OTL, but with Italia instead of the Byzantines). The Pope does not control any real territory, but still has a lot of authority.
Visgothia is ruled by an almost-powerless king, who is a pawn in the power struggle between two main feudal houses - House Leovid and House Swanterhild, controlled by Duke of Lusitania and Duke of Asturia respectively. The reason that the king has ANY powers left AT ALL, even nominal ones, is that the two Houses are in a bitter struggle, allowing the more capable monarchs to play them off against each other.
Saxonnia and Bavaria are in control of parts of central Germany (east of Rhine, west of Oder). Further east, Sorbic Slavic tribes are dominant, and further still, there are Baltic Peoples. And then, there is the Kievan Rus...
In Pannonia, there is a new rising power - the newly-Orthodox Christian kingdom of Greater Mordovia, founded by Svyatopluk (historically a Mordovian duke who fought off Carolingian armies until being crushed by the Magyars).
Byzantine Empire is definitely recovering, having retaken the Avars and converted Bulgars and Lombards to Orthodox Christianity. In the "eastern front", it regained much of Syria and Armenia, while its Khazar allies are now threatening and occasionally attacking Persia. This was helped out by the recent break-up of the Arab Caliphate. It was divided into the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt, Sudan and the Holy Land, the (remaining) Abbasid Caliphate in Iraq and Arabia, the Zanzibari Emirate (in East Africa - you will probably have to edit in the island of Zanzibar on Jason-NK map) and the Parsi (sometimes called "Righteous") Shiite Caliphate in Persia and parts of India. Neither is particularily stable yet, but each has many possibilities.
Finally, we have the Magyars, Khazars and Kievan Rus. The Magyars still tried to conquer Pannonia, but as Moravia was alot stronger, it fended the Magyars back. Magyars were also raiding Khazar and Rus territory, but eventually, Svyatoslav II crushed them in a victorious campaign. Magyars scattered, some of them later serving as mercenaries in Khazaria. As of now, Kievan Rus has recently been converted to Orthodox Christianity... Khazaria avoided a serious clash with the Kievan Rus, as it never switched its center of power further north, as in OTL. It is a fairly stable and prospering state (fortified by the Mandate of Heavens and a well-trained standing army), even though the Caucasian Avars (future Chechens, interestingly enough) are being rather troublesome. Khazaria is the Byzantine Empire's only trustable ally. It holds a small strip of the Black Sea coast, including Crimea, some territory stretching to the eastern coast of the Caspian Sea and including the Astrakhan/Itil area, and, ofcourse, Caucasia.
Why not do one thats based in Europe and base it off Crusader Kings? CK imitates feudalism pretty well, since vassals are tied to their lords by alliance, but can still fight amongst eachother, so it's be good for agressive NESers.
Gelion
Retired Captain
Great stuff! 
Now I need to write the rules and go with it....
Now I need to write the rules and go with it....
das
Regeneration In Process
Yes. But why just Europe? EUROPE IS NOT ENOUGH! Okay, so maybe you can extend the map over time, like stalin006 did.
Anyway, the thing that disturbs me in CK is the sheer amount of dead muslim irish messiah atheist popes. DON'T IMITATE THAT, please.
Anyway, the thing that disturbs me in CK is the sheer amount of dead muslim irish messiah atheist popes. DON'T IMITATE THAT, please.
What? What the hell are you on about man? What dead muslim irish atheist popes? Are you talking about how you can get yourself appointed pope with some effort? And I said only Europe because with the vast majority of us playing vassals, if it's going to be what I think it is, with some kings and their vassals being played by us, it's too hard to show which vassal owns what lands and be focusing on a gazillion countries worldwide.
