New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Azale]

That's probably not a good question to ask in here, I know it would annoy me. Just pm Iggy if your curious. If he does not reply, be an optimist and take it as a good thing

 

[das]

god of Manipulation/Wisdom/etc)

Aren't all deities in here wise and manipulative, except those of them that aren't by their basic nature?

Okay, let's try and define it again: I suggest that the aspect should basically include in it the deity's main goal or principle of existence. What does he manipulate things for? Out of sport? To subtly change the world for the better? To drown it in blood with the hands of unsuspecting? To overthrow the other gods?

 

[Abaddon]

Goal and principle of existance arn't the same thing.

Also, a God doesn't necessary have a Goal.. a Gods, just a God..

A player, playing a God, will (I assume) simply want more power to manipulate the world than the other gods.

How the God can go about this, will be the flava of the game.. A God of Ice might try to freeze the world, the God of Spring fighting it back with life etc..

 

[LittleBoots]

A player, playing a God, will (I assume) simply want more power to manipulate the world than the other gods.

Why? Pantheons work together, and most, if not all, gods in ancient mythologies tended to understand and respect (or fear) hierarchies, so that they weren't looking for any power outside their sphere of influence. For instance, if I decided to play as the patron deity of farmers, I'm not looking to take over the world. Just to influence the grain supply.

Now, when the gods do fight, it tends to be in camps and alliances - new hierarchies looking to replace old ones. In Norse mythology you have the opposing camps of gods (Aesir v. Vanir), with the Aesir led by the nominal king of the Gods (and everybody doomed to apocalyptic death in the end, but for now, generally peaceful, if tense relations), and in Greek mythology you have (depending on who you read) a couple cycles of younger gods overthrowing older gods, until Zeus puts a stop to that nonsense.

In summary, I think gods should control/influence/be concerned with an aspect of the cosmos, not simply the desire to grab all power in the cosmos. That should be left up to pantheons against other pantheons, if there are to be struggles.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Well, that NES was marked with "come here and god-mod" sign. (Although, it in itself is highly ironic). It never worked out.

@Iggy: Is the SteamNES dead?

SteamNES is alive, albeit quite slow ATM.

Aren't all deities in here wise and manipulative, except those of them that aren't by their basic nature?

Okay, let's try and define it again: I suggest that the aspect should basically include in it the deity's main goal or principle of existence. What does he manipulate things for? Out of sport? To subtly change the world for the better? To drown it in blood with the hands of unsuspecting? To overthrow the other gods?

Szok gives no regard to the concept of morality. It seeks those who seek knowledge, and grants access to an infinite library of information to those deemed worthy.

 

[das]

Goal and principle of existance arn't the same thing.

Yes, I'm having trouble with pining down the exact definition. But the term I'm looking for is somewhat similar to both.

A player, playing a God, will (I assume) simply want more power to manipulate the world than the other gods.

a) They already got power;
b) "Manipulate the world"? What? Why manipulate it? To what end? In what way? It is not exactly possible to manipulate the world without some goal in mind - that is not manipulation, that is simply random meddling (but if your goal is discord, then that works out pretty well).

 

[Abaddon]

I was imagining doing both positive and negative things...

Send rains to the crops of your believers, send hail to those who do not (or worship someone else)

Depending how well your plans work, you become a more or less powerful God, with the ability to "meddle" to a lesser or greater extent. "Divine Intervention" points..

 

[das]

Send rains to the crops of your believers, send hail to those who do not (or worship someone else)

This has been stated before in this very discussion: polytheistic cults of gods are usually not very exclusive, and punishing those who wrong the deity in question is fairly routine.

Depending how well your plans work, you become a more or less powerful God, with the ability to "meddle" to a lesser or greater extent. "Divine Intervention" points..

Well, yes, following an in-character relevant plan successfully should generally be a strengthening factor if anything should be. But still: what plans? Why meddle? What should one use the Divine Intervention points for?

 

[Abaddon]

Well sending the rains, or creating a few trolls all require DI.

 

[Abaddon]

With this in mind i'd suggest turn length to be seasonal..

 

[LittleBoots]

Abaddon, do you consider all the gods in this hypothetical game to be in conflict? As in, all trying to somehow become the supreme god?

 

[zxcvbnm]

DI are supposed to be used in every action when the god affects the world somehow. This includes creating things, normal actions by the god (sending rains or making the sun shine on days) and communicating with mortals.

@Abaddon, about the turn length, great minds do think alike.

The gods will each be trying to furthen their own power over the world, in either gaining mighty followers or trying to make their aspect dominant, depending on the type of the gods. As suggested by Das, the followers won't be a deciding factor. However, having them is a bit of extra gamble; if they become powerful, like a certain god's tribe becoming like the Roman Empire, their god can rise in power greatly; if they are crushed, so will their god's influence in the way of having lost the power invested in them.

But they aren't necessarily in conflict. Their relations could be anything from a strictly ruled "I do this, you do that" agreement to Cold War-like tensions or all out chaos. Of course, every god's own aspect would influence the way they want their relations to be.


The world will start either

1) as a blank world, with the gods creating it by themselves

or

2) a pre-made world, which the gods are allowed to manipulate in their own areas in the beginning

 

[Abaddon]

Abaddon, do you consider all the gods in this hypothetical game to be in conflict? As in, all trying to somehow become the supreme god?

They don't have to be ~ it depends how the player, plays it. One could simply play about with the humans that already love you, and increase their love.. you don't HAVE to do something negative against others.

Everyone sets their own goal.. and (like a typical NES).. you might want to conqour the whole world, but its not likely.

 

[Abaddon]

I'd suggest a random world populated with humans at a dawn of civilization level. Otherwise we will be stuck with too many unimaginative gods..

 

[The Strategos]

I would advocate having gods partially dependent upon mortals. By partially dependent I mean that gods have an existence and power outside of the mortal realm, and thus do not need them, but benefit from a partnership with mortals. This partnership is necessary if the gods wish to use their power to influence the mortal realm.

Mortals influence deities primarily through two avenues, constructing idols and offering sacrifices. Idols are creations that allow gods to access the mortal realm. Part of the god’s essence is contained in the idols, allowing the deity to influence the area around the idol. Larger idols allow the deities to transfer over more of their power, allowing for more powerful demonstrations but are immobile. Smaller idols allow for less power to be used, but are mobile, making them more useful for taking along for battles and raids.

The second way is by offering sacrifices. Sacrifices are not what gods eat and drink, rather they are the energy supply which acts as the conduit for god’s powers to influence the mortal world. Think of it this way, gods live in the realm of the gods. Through idols they can manifest their presence at a particular mortal spatial location. Sacrifices are the tube that the god’s power flows from the realm of the gods to the mortal realm. More sacrifices means more of the god’s power can flow to the mortal realm, meaning bigger or more frequent displays of power.

The powers gods display are affected by two things, their personality and their goals. It is not that gods are given special powers from birth, by nature one is the god of lightening and one the god of water and nothing they can do can change it. Instead, gods truly start out as “blank slates.” Zeus could have been the god of the underworld and Hades the god of lightening if lots had fallen differently. Through their personality and goals, they develop certain skill sets that tend to specialize them. One god might practice smithy all day and become extremely good at it, another might spend all their time in the water and so develop an affinity, a third might generalize, and so be good at many things but an expert in none. Based on the personality and goals the gods use their powers to influence the mortal realm.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Care to elaborate the "we will be stuck with too many unimaginative gods.." part?

In either case, the level of development of the humans would be around late stone age in the beginning. (but can be rapidly improved by the gods)

@The Strategos: I agree quite much.

 

[Abaddon]

Well if you pick earth, we will have people playing gods that already exist. That doesnt require any imagination.. I'd like a random world where every god is a work of someones imagination.

 

[LittleBoots]

I was hoping Strategos would get involved in this discussion. I think his suggestions will allow for a reasonable use of "DI," and allow for limitations on the actions of the divine in order to create a fun game to play.

And then, when the sacrifices are held hostage by the kingdom of the birds, a divinely inspired author can write a comedy.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Well if you pick earth, we will have people playing gods that already exist. That doesnt require any imagination.. I'd like a random world where every god is a work of someones imagination.

But that doesn't answer whether you support option 1 or 2. But I'd never have made it Earth anyway.

 

[Abaddon]

I would advocate having gods partially dependent upon mortals. By partially dependent I mean that gods have an existence and power outside of the mortal realm, and thus do not need them, but benefit from a partnership with mortals. This partnership is necessary if the gods wish to use their power to influence the mortal realm.

Makes sense

Mortals influence deities primarily through two avenues, constructing idols and offering sacrifices. Idols are creations that allow gods to access the mortal realm. Part of the god’s essence is contained in the idols, allowing the deity to influence the area around the idol. Larger idols allow the deities to transfer over more of their power, allowing for more powerful demonstrations but are immobile. Smaller idols allow for less power to be used, but are mobile, making them more useful for taking along for battles and raids.

Not forgetting Temples, pilgrimages etc?

An what history is there of people carrying Idols to war?

The second way is by offering sacrifices. Sacrifices are not what gods eat and drink, rather they are the energy supply which acts as the conduit for god’s powers to influence the mortal world. Think of it this way, gods live in the realm of the gods. Through idols they can manifest their presence at a particular mortal spatial location. Sacrifices are the tube that the god’s power flows from the realm of the gods to the mortal realm. More sacrifices means more of the god’s power can flow to the mortal realm, meaning bigger or more frequent displays of power.

I wouldn't see sacrifice as a seperate thing.. Idols, sacrifice, worship, temples etc all the same. A prayer can call forth a god just as much as a idol.. but depending how many, how big etc effects the power of it.

The powers gods display are affected by two things, their personality and their goals. It is not that gods are given special powers from birth, by nature one is the god of lightening and one the god of water and nothing they can do can change it. Instead, gods truly start out as “blank slates.” Zeus could have been the god of the underworld and Hades the god of lightening if lots had fallen differently. Through their personality and goals, they develop certain skill sets that tend to specialize them. One god might practice smithy all day and become extremely good at it, another might spend all their time in the water and so develop an affinity, a third might generalize, and so be good at many things but an expert in none. Based on the personality and goals the gods use their powers to influence the mortal realm.

THIS is cool. Gaining aspects as time goes on an powers are used is very good. So players HAVE to play in character, or their god will develope off in some other direction!

(may be miles off), but what about:

"Rain control x 1, Control of the undead x 3, Ice manipulation x2"

perhaps.. like the genes that make up creatures in LifeNES?