New Official Version Released! March 8th (3/8)

[Bromar1]

200 bc: an unmet player has entered the medieval era. Oh god.

 

[Funak]

well, that's by design. you cannot kill a garrisoned unit anymore without capturing the city. this was done to prevent an exploit where you kill the AI army by constant bombardment without capturing the city.

however, once the unit is down to 10 hp, it stops absorbing damage for the city.

Ehm, wasn't the defenders getting killed the whole point of the system? That you shouldn't be able to hide behind the walls forever with no counterplay?
Not a fan of this in that case.

 

[Bromar1]

Does the % science from granary come count the net or gross food income?

 

[Gazebo]

Does the % science from granary come count the net or gross food income?

Gross.

Ehm, wasn't the defenders getting killed the whole point of the system? That you shouldn't be able to hide behind the walls forever with no counterplay?
Not a fan of this in that case.

No. The point was to make it a question of priority - you can either stay in city, soak damage (but probably not enough to recoup via healing) or get out in the field and fight. Soaking damage only works up to a point, meaning that the unit's value as a garrison is only as strong as its ability to take a punch.

G

 

[PurpleMentat]

If we're no longer worried about ranged units in a city being immortal, is there any reason we can't have ships able to fire out of cities again?

 

[DarkZero]

If we're no longer worried about ranged units in a city being immortal, is there any reason we can't have ships able to fire out of cities again?

The change in my understanding was for two reason:

Realism:A ship docket in a city does not "work", he is there to resupply or to wait for departure, not to fire cannonballs at people bashing the city gates.

The double/triple fire: where a city just because it was coastal had its own raged attack, the ranged garrisons AND the ranged ship, pretty much killing any invading melee unit of comparable strength to the ranged ones.

 

[Gazebo]

If we're no longer worried about ranged units in a city being immortal, is there any reason we can't have ships able to fire out of cities again?

Ships were never technically garrisons, thus they aren't privy to the same system.


G

 

[PurpleMentat]

The change in my understanding was for two reason:

Realism:A ship docket in a city does not "work", he is there to resupply or to wait for departure, not to fire cannonballs at people bashing the city gates.

The double/triple fire: where a city just because it was coastal had its own raged attack, the ranged garrisons AND the ranged ship, pretty much killing any invading melee unit of comparable strength to the ranged ones.

Realism doesn't really apply. There are plenty of instances of ships in harbor turning their guns on land or sea forces. It's a game balance decision entirely, and my understanding was it revolved around a boat being essentially immortal until the city was captured. Now we're back to ranged and siege units being essentially immortal until the city is captured, firing forever with no fear of death until the walls fall.

Ships were never technically garrisons, thus they aren't privy to the same system.


G

Okay. That's fair. Then, allow me to lodge my intense displeasure with changing up garrisons to be undamaged below a certain HP and unkillable. Making garrisons take damage and die was one of my favorite recent changes. Now we're back to one garrisoned archer successfully defending an Ancient city against three archers and two spearmen. I don't like it.

 

[DarkZero]

Okay. That's fair. Then, allow me to lodge my intense displeasure with changing up garrisons to be undamaged below a certain HP and unkillable. Making garrisons take damage and die was one of my favorite recent changes. Now we're back to one garrisoned archer successfully defending an Ancient city against three archers and two spearmen. I don't like it.

Since they take damage until certain amount of hp, they deal very small damage due to civ v combat mechanics, the problem was wen they took no damage at all and dealt their full damage every turn.

 

[Forsti]

Since they take damage until certain amount of hp, they deal very small damage due to civ v combat mechanics, the problem was wen they took no damage at all and dealt their full damage every turn.

Japan disagrees.

 

[dilophosaur]

Congrats for the release! It was so quick!

 

[JimBobRedneck]

Since they take damage until certain amount of hp, they deal very small damage due to civ v combat mechanics, the problem was wen they took no damage at all and dealt their full damage every turn.

There is the slight problem of Japanese units though, who just get stronger the more damage they take.

 

[Gazebo]

Realism doesn't really apply. There are plenty of instances of ships in harbor turning their guns on land or sea forces. It's a game balance decision entirely, and my understanding was it revolved around a boat being essentially immortal until the city was captured. Now we're back to ranged and siege units being essentially immortal until the city is captured, firing forever with no fear of death until the walls fall.



Okay. That's fair. Then, allow me to lodge my intense displeasure with changing up garrisons to be undamaged below a certain HP and unkillable. Making garrisons take damage and die was one of my favorite recent changes. Now we're back to one garrisoned archer successfully defending an Ancient city against three archers and two spearmen. I don't like it.

I would agree to a certain extent, but keep in mind that whatever bonus they were providing to the city goes away if their health is below the garrison threshold. So they become a really weak unit at that point.

This was mainly done to support the AI (as it had a tendency to move fully-healed units into weak cities and get them popped by artillery in one shot).

I'm not married to the current system, but I'm also not the one that created it, so I leave it to ilteroi and you all.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Since they take damage until certain amount of hp, they deal very small damage due to civ v combat mechanics, the problem was wen they took no damage at all and dealt their full damage every turn.

Don't they only lose about 15%/25% of their power?

Anyway, the easiest solution would be to make the garrisons unable to attack if they're below 20%. No invincible, easy to defend cities, no unit loss for AI if they can defend.

 

[Funak]

Garrisoned units also adds a ton of combatstrength to the city, with this change it is practically impossible to take a city with walls and a spearman during ancient era.
Surrounding and flailing down the defender until it died and a new one couldn't move in was the most practical way of early conquest.

 

[Funak]

This was mainly done to support the AI (as it had a tendency to move fully-healed units into weak cities and get them popped by artillery in one shot).

That can't be a problem with the new CS conversion system, moving a lancer into a flatland city without walls brought the CS of the city up to 33, if the lancer still gets popped it's not because the city was weak.

 

[Legen]

Don't they only lose about 15%/25% of their power?

Anyway, the easiest solution would be to make the garrisons unable to attack if they're below 20%. No invincible, easy to defend cities, no unit loss for AI if they can defend.

They lose up to 33% of the damage. And it isn't a combat bonus, but a damage multiplier after all combat bonuses are considered. So, it can be effectively bigger than a -33% penalty in some cases.

 

[IcyAngel]

Am I the only one for whom France, Sweden and the Zulu have lost their UU?
Doesn't show in the civilopedia or leader selection screen.

 

[Glowstrontium]

I haven't used this mod since last year, and decided to try it again, but the EUI interface appears to have changed and the action panel to the lower-left of the screen no longer appears when I select a unit, and unless I'm being an idiot or something went wrong - how am I supposed to instruct units to do anything other than move now?

http://i.imgur.com/s150Cg6.jpg

 

[grmagne]

I haven't used this mod since last year, and decided to try it again, but the EUI interface appears to have changed and the action panel to the lower-left of the screen no longer appears when I select a unit, and unless I'm being an idiot or something went wrong - how am I supposed to instruct units to do anything other than move now?

http://i.imgur.com/s150Cg6.jpg

Something went wrong because you should still have the panel in the bottom left when you select a unit. You may want to try a re-install.