Poopin Thelift
Chieftain
In my current king game the big happy surplus of the AI has vanished. At 500 AD Im number 1 (out of 10 Civs) in the charts with 15 happy faces, never seen this before. Anyone else experienced this?
New Patch - First Impressions?
- Thread starter kamex
- Start date
Kushrenada
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2011
- Messages
- 2
Tried a new game with the patch and so far it's working out fine.
But I think I just found a small mistake within the social policies:
I take Honor early on so every barb I kill gives me 6 culture.
I take liberty - citizenship - representation
Representation: Each city you found will increase the culture cost of policies by 33% less then normal. Also starts a golden age.
Good policy if you want to settle a couple of new cities and not make your culture cost for social policies go through the roof.
BUT now every barb I kill only gives me 4 culture. So they also bring in 33% less. That's not mentioned anywhere in the policy and I don't see why 'representation' would lower the culture revenue of killing barbs. Do they also get represented before I slaughter them?
But I think I just found a small mistake within the social policies:
I take Honor early on so every barb I kill gives me 6 culture.
I take liberty - citizenship - representation
Representation: Each city you found will increase the culture cost of policies by 33% less then normal. Also starts a golden age.
Good policy if you want to settle a couple of new cities and not make your culture cost for social policies go through the roof.
BUT now every barb I kill only gives me 4 culture. So they also bring in 33% less. That's not mentioned anywhere in the policy and I don't see why 'representation' would lower the culture revenue of killing barbs. Do they also get represented before I slaughter them?
Archers will give you 4 culture, Brutes will give you 6.
The higher their strength, the more culture you get.
vixafox
Warlord
- Joined
- May 13, 2006
- Messages
- 120
I have started just three games with the new patch, so these are definitely only first impressions.
I used to play at Emperor level, but for the new patch I have stepped back to King and I am finding that level to be a good challenge. The AI are certainly more aggressive, seem to build more units, and attack in force with a good mix of melee, ranged and siege. Never before have I felt the need to research Archery early and build archers for defence. I have now. Even then I have lost a city to the AI for the first time ever. Perhaps city walls will now become a worthwhile investment.
I feel that early expansion has to be done with more care than before, partly because of the effects of reduced happiness, and partly because for the risk of attack from the AI. Settling near luxuries remains important, and getting access to iron is as crucial as it ever was, perhaps even more so.
Research agreements might have been nerfed but this has not mattered to me so far since the few I have signed never got completed before my "friends" back-stabbed me. I should have saved the cash and built more units.
I used to play at Emperor level, but for the new patch I have stepped back to King and I am finding that level to be a good challenge. The AI are certainly more aggressive, seem to build more units, and attack in force with a good mix of melee, ranged and siege. Never before have I felt the need to research Archery early and build archers for defence. I have now. Even then I have lost a city to the AI for the first time ever. Perhaps city walls will now become a worthwhile investment.
I feel that early expansion has to be done with more care than before, partly because of the effects of reduced happiness, and partly because for the risk of attack from the AI. Settling near luxuries remains important, and getting access to iron is as crucial as it ever was, perhaps even more so.
Research agreements might have been nerfed but this has not mattered to me so far since the few I have signed never got completed before my "friends" back-stabbed me. I should have saved the cash and built more units.
Karpyan
Chieftain
Yes, I had three RAs on the go on Prince last night, all of which were quickly forfeited due to three DWs. Waste of G.
most important question related to the patch and nobody able or willing to answer? as hotseat uses the same game-data for all players i see no reason not to (finally) implement modding compatibility into (hotseat-)mp. i cant imagine anything better than to play real (modded) civ with my best friend.. unfortunately im stuck at work so could anybody tell me if its possible?
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
overall, thumbs up. one more small step in the right direction, and i do mean small step.
Yeah, I have had the same experiences. Oligarchy on the Tradition Policy Tree, has suddenly become worth thinking about!
Furycrab
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 914
Playing with The Iroquois and with an Honor into tradition build, and I have to say it's a ridiculous amount of fun and a really nice amount of culture. On emperor, standard, large map, Pangaea.
Honor was always nice since your scouts become easier to manage/save. The bonus culture from killing barbs is really nice, with 2-3 warriors scouting out and going out to smack barb camps I would easily make enough culture to buy the second and third policy (which cost like 30 and 60)
Since policies were still rolling in decently fast I decided to mess about and test out the Honor SP finisher (Gold per kills), which was kinda convenient since around the time I got that last policy I also got DOW by 2 of my neighbors.
It gives you gold based on unit strength much like the Aztec culture/Honor bonus culture. It didn't feel very strong, but the gold certainly stacked up fairly quickly and I could buy extra warriors which I could upgrade for only 50 gold into Mohawks (250g swordmen with professional army is really nice). Oh and that bonus will follow me all game long should I decide to keep being warlike.
Btw Mohawks are pretty darn cool. They aren't quite as invincible in jungle/forests as they once were, but being Iron free means I had a great baseline unit and have extra Iron for catapults and or LS. Oh and all the warriors that were barb hunting are now level 3 Mohawks.
AI wise the good spots are getting filled rather quickly, they did double DOW me near turn... 80? However I quickly got peace from one of them and since they were friends the other also offered peace the same turn, but I decided to Keep beating on one of them for gold/exp.
I'm getting a reallllly nice amount of culture (like as good or better than what Liberty/Tradition would be pumping). Wonder wise I lost a few, but I bubbled Theology with the Great Library which I got around turn 40-50. (This I felt wouldn't work on Deity since they get pottery for free)
The only thing I would maybe do differently is I would have unlocked Tradition right after I got Military Caste for the 3 Culture but I still would have finished the honor tree.
BTW: Honor might not expand quite as fast as liberty, but it generates a TON of culture, you get a ton of scouting done easily, and all and all, it feels really solid. Looking forward to this evening to start taking some cities in revenge for the early DOWs.
Honor was always nice since your scouts become easier to manage/save. The bonus culture from killing barbs is really nice, with 2-3 warriors scouting out and going out to smack barb camps I would easily make enough culture to buy the second and third policy (which cost like 30 and 60)
Since policies were still rolling in decently fast I decided to mess about and test out the Honor SP finisher (Gold per kills), which was kinda convenient since around the time I got that last policy I also got DOW by 2 of my neighbors.
It gives you gold based on unit strength much like the Aztec culture/Honor bonus culture. It didn't feel very strong, but the gold certainly stacked up fairly quickly and I could buy extra warriors which I could upgrade for only 50 gold into Mohawks (250g swordmen with professional army is really nice). Oh and that bonus will follow me all game long should I decide to keep being warlike.
Btw Mohawks are pretty darn cool. They aren't quite as invincible in jungle/forests as they once were, but being Iron free means I had a great baseline unit and have extra Iron for catapults and or LS. Oh and all the warriors that were barb hunting are now level 3 Mohawks.
AI wise the good spots are getting filled rather quickly, they did double DOW me near turn... 80? However I quickly got peace from one of them and since they were friends the other also offered peace the same turn, but I decided to Keep beating on one of them for gold/exp.
I'm getting a reallllly nice amount of culture (like as good or better than what Liberty/Tradition would be pumping). Wonder wise I lost a few, but I bubbled Theology with the Great Library which I got around turn 40-50. (This I felt wouldn't work on Deity since they get pottery for free)
The only thing I would maybe do differently is I would have unlocked Tradition right after I got Military Caste for the 3 Culture but I still would have finished the honor tree.
BTW: Honor might not expand quite as fast as liberty, but it generates a TON of culture, you get a ton of scouting done easily, and all and all, it feels really solid. Looking forward to this evening to start taking some cities in revenge for the early DOWs.
vanDietsland
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 37
I completed a continent plus, standard size , prince game with Germany and its a laugh.
I started with completing the honor tree and getting 4 barbarians by destroying camps. Then I got Oligarchy and started pumping landsknechts in Berlin by getting them every 2 turns. All my cities are garrisoned getting a lot of culture and happiness. I attacked England with A LOT of new landsknechts, 2 catapults and 4 newly upgraded warriors and barbarians to swordsmen. I got a lot of gold because the 25% less maintenance helps.
Napoleon was mad and declared war on me. His longswordsmen were cutting through my landsknechts but I just had to many and my swordsmen were upgrading to longswordsmen by now. Napoleon just surrendered
I got Paris 10 turns later.
Now the whole world was afraid of me and I wasn't backstabbed once, because of my huge army.
Now I was getting oil and coal everywhere. Getting them on islands and conquered land. Now the second blitzkrieg was on, with the panzers in front, I just steamroled the world. By then I had the 8 free maintenance from freedom and was going into autocracy. Happiness and money loss isn't a problem anymore and upgrading my units is a laugh.
Fun game.
I started with completing the honor tree and getting 4 barbarians by destroying camps. Then I got Oligarchy and started pumping landsknechts in Berlin by getting them every 2 turns. All my cities are garrisoned getting a lot of culture and happiness. I attacked England with A LOT of new landsknechts, 2 catapults and 4 newly upgraded warriors and barbarians to swordsmen. I got a lot of gold because the 25% less maintenance helps.
Napoleon was mad and declared war on me. His longswordsmen were cutting through my landsknechts but I just had to many and my swordsmen were upgrading to longswordsmen by now. Napoleon just surrendered
I got Paris 10 turns later. Now the whole world was afraid of me and I wasn't backstabbed once, because of my huge army.
Now I was getting oil and coal everywhere. Getting them on islands and conquered land. Now the second blitzkrieg was on, with the panzers in front, I just steamroled the world. By then I had the 8 free maintenance from freedom and was going into autocracy. Happiness and money loss isn't a problem anymore and upgrading my units is a laugh.
Fun game.
spider1
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 569
With the nerf to walls and castle, this can be needed depending on what kind of game you are playing. Most especially if you deciede on a barb hunt game and turn them up to raging. I did that with Aztecs just to see how much culture I could pile up with the new Honor tree, and still found that having Oligarchy really helped.
Even though they also got nerfed, Babylon walls and castle is still pretty good, most especially with Oligarchy.
Civsassin
Immortal
I started two games post patch, and I got DoW'd really early in each. I had to select Oligarchy to survive. I had 5-6 AI units attacking me at one time. With one warrior fortified in a forest hex and one garrisoned in my capital, I was able to hold off the rush and eventually take the closest city, since I quickly built an army of my own. Oligarchy is almost necessary on higher levels. Both of my starts were on Immortal difficulty, which I beat regularly post patch. So far, it seems a bit harder but I have to experiment more.
Farrapo
Warlord
Civsassin ... I had the same experience. I was playing on Emperor and was attacked around turn 35 with 6 warriors. They came in aggressively and surrounded my capital. My scout had received adv. tech from ruins and hence was a nearby archer. I also had a warrior at home and quickly bought another. I defended the attack, but it was touch and go. I think it's going to be prudent to take some defensive SPs and/or have an archer at home now. I find that to be a good thing to force people to pay attention to some defense.
Furycrab
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 914
I got DOWed but only around turn 85, and only because I started slouching on my Army to get a settler and wonders (GL). I think builds where you go Scout/Monument/Worker might be getting you in early trouble.
I pumped out about 2-3 scouts and an extra warrior and they didn't really get touched till a bit later and the rush was actually more manageable since it was a mostly warrior/archers, however I had a second city and a few more techs.
I pumped out about 2-3 scouts and an extra warrior and they didn't really get touched till a bit later and the rush was actually more manageable since it was a mostly warrior/archers, however I had a second city and a few more techs.
With raging barbs on immortal I'm getting monty to fill the honor track pretty consistently around turn 60 using 2 x jag+archer teams to farm nearby camps, preferably ones close to city states. I'm wondering if you could actually do honor starter->liberty with monty and fill it about as fast as France. Though that last policy is going to be sloow.
Mark the Bold
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2010
- Messages
- 156
2/3 way through my first post game patch and I am impressed.
There now is clearly a two tier civ personality type: (warmonger/douche) versus (buddy). In my game, Germany & France are uber-warmongers DOW'ing me like its going out of style. Whereas Songhai and India are near-continously research agreeing with me and trading luxuries straight-up 1 for 1. Never happened before on the previous Emperor games I've played. India would only trade 5 to 1 for luxuries at best.
I also really like the social policy mix. THe fact that you are encouraged to get every SP in a tree now forces me to take SP's that I usually always overlooked. No more "big game hunting" in the trees. For instance the Oligarchy one (double ranged combat strength for garrisoned units) saved my bacon more than once during the NUMEROUS invasions of France and Germany. Although, I noticed once in the renaissance era it no longer gave me the 100% bonus but I suspect that is a bug..... All in all I am very happy with going Tradition & Piety & Freedom with Egypt and I can get almost every Wonder doing this even on Emperor. Great tiles are simply ridiculous after Freedom. Never seen more anvils on a city production screen in my life before.
Hanging Gardens is now THE premier wonder in the game in my opinion. It basically allows you to set your Capital to Production focus the entire game AND still grow like its on food focus. So with Egypt, a hanging gardens Thebes is now a permanent wonder & GP spamming juggernaught and I didn't even have Marble.
Finally, my suspicions about Germany being an uber-warmonger civ were correct. America, Siam AND Mongolia all declared war on Germany in my game and all had their a$$es handed to them. I had to intervene on behalf of America just to keep the other continent from becoming a sole German supercontinent. It was a carpet of Landsknecht I suspected, although the Cero de Posi NW near Munich probably was a big factor in that.
Great patch. ITs like playing a new game. Good job Firaxis.
There now is clearly a two tier civ personality type: (warmonger/douche) versus (buddy). In my game, Germany & France are uber-warmongers DOW'ing me like its going out of style. Whereas Songhai and India are near-continously research agreeing with me and trading luxuries straight-up 1 for 1. Never happened before on the previous Emperor games I've played. India would only trade 5 to 1 for luxuries at best.
I also really like the social policy mix. THe fact that you are encouraged to get every SP in a tree now forces me to take SP's that I usually always overlooked. No more "big game hunting" in the trees. For instance the Oligarchy one (double ranged combat strength for garrisoned units) saved my bacon more than once during the NUMEROUS invasions of France and Germany. Although, I noticed once in the renaissance era it no longer gave me the 100% bonus but I suspect that is a bug..... All in all I am very happy with going Tradition & Piety & Freedom with Egypt and I can get almost every Wonder doing this even on Emperor. Great tiles are simply ridiculous after Freedom. Never seen more anvils on a city production screen in my life before.
Hanging Gardens is now THE premier wonder in the game in my opinion. It basically allows you to set your Capital to Production focus the entire game AND still grow like its on food focus. So with Egypt, a hanging gardens Thebes is now a permanent wonder & GP spamming juggernaught and I didn't even have Marble.
Finally, my suspicions about Germany being an uber-warmonger civ were correct. America, Siam AND Mongolia all declared war on Germany in my game and all had their a$$es handed to them. I had to intervene on behalf of America just to keep the other continent from becoming a sole German supercontinent. It was a carpet of Landsknecht I suspected, although the Cero de Posi NW near Munich probably was a big factor in that.
Great patch. ITs like playing a new game. Good job Firaxis.
Woah! Just played 120 turns as Wu on Immortal and Diplo is totally 
Catherine was first friendly, next turn afraid, 2 turns later hostile and next denouncing. Schizo much?
Plopped 3 cities in the first 60 turns: Oh, uncouth monster! How dare I??
My outrageous expansion led to 4 DoWs, 2 on the same turn from so-called DoFs, including neighboring Iroquois, who I even gave money to.
Happiness ain't the problem here, it's Diplo, again.
Catherine was first friendly, next turn afraid, 2 turns later hostile and next denouncing. Schizo much?
Plopped 3 cities in the first 60 turns: Oh, uncouth monster! How dare I??
My outrageous expansion led to 4 DoWs, 2 on the same turn from so-called DoFs, including neighboring Iroquois, who I even gave money to.
Happiness ain't the problem here, it's Diplo, again.
Qin Shi Huang
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2010
- Messages
- 83
Hotseat needs the option to choose how many ai civs there are rather than map size choosing the amount only 8 on standard? Prefer 12
I agree with this. Most probably they will add this on an upcoming patch. We started a huge map, and 12 civs seems a bit lame. Early confrontations are more interesting.
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