New plans for the future eras

[sorcdk]

One thing you might consider is to have some restrictions on things away from earth when using civics that wouldn't be able to extend well into space eras, especially those that lie so far away that communication and enforcement becomes a problem. There are plenty of scify stories about distant planners not exactly agreeing with central government.
One option would be autobuildings that would spawn space barbarians, unless they were prevented in some way, such as by being replaced by other buildings possibly locked behind space civics (in which case they might also be autobuildings). Having to fight space pirates in some stages of space eras would both provide the opposition sorely needed in the later ages, and also allow one to go through the 4x phases again.

 

[Thunderbrd]

One thing you might consider is to have some restrictions on things away from earth when using civics that wouldn't be able to extend well into space eras, especially those that lie so far away that communication and enforcement becomes a problem. There are plenty of scify stories about distant planners not exactly agreeing with central government.
One option would be autobuildings that would spawn space barbarians, unless they were prevented in some way, such as by being replaced by other buildings possibly locked behind space civics (in which case they might also be autobuildings). Having to fight space pirates in some stages of space eras would both provide the opposition sorely needed in the later ages, and also allow one to go through the 4x phases again.

I'm thinking that a whole new added severe type of colony upkeep would be needed to do this right.

 

[Yudishtira]

Interstellar Travel is a Galactic tech, so why can you still launch your vanilla victory spaceship (one-way trip to Alpha Centauri) in late Modern? At least some of the prereq techs for its components should be eras later, and Interstellar Travel should probably be one of them.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Interstellar Travel is a Galactic tech, so why can you still launch your vanilla victory spaceship (one-way trip to Alpha Centauri) in late Modern? At least some of the prereq techs for its components should be eras later, and Interstellar Travel should probably be one of them.

The intent was to eventually mod it to become a dimensional traversing ship.

 

[Yudishtira]

The intent was to eventually mod it to become a dimensional traversing ship.

Sounds like eventually means versions from now. In the meantime, it would be very easy to change the prereq techs for at least some of the components.

 

[raxo2222]

Sounds like eventually means versions from now. In the meantime, it would be very easy to change the prereq techs for at least some of the components.

All spaceship components are unlocked somewhere in Nanotech or Transhuman era, I guess Apollo Program unlocks ability to build it.

 

[Yudishtira]

All spaceship components are unlocked somewhere in Nanotech or Transhuman era, I guess Apollo Program unlocks ability to build it.

According to my victory screen (Mastery victory so it's not "defeat"), Brazil has already launched his, and he's in early Information era. I'll look again, but I'm sure I found the Apollo Program was the only prereq for the components I checked.

 

[raxo2222]

According to my victory screen (Mastery victory so it's not "defeat"), Brazil has already launched his, and he's in early Information era. I'll look again, but I'm sure I found the Apollo Program was the only prereq for the components I checked.

It sounds like (possibly text) bug somewhere, can I see your save?

Components have tech prereqs too.
Casing - Superstrong Alloys (Nanotech)
Cockpit - Interactive Glass (Nanotech)
Docking Bay - Commercial Spaceflight (Information)
Engine - Mass Driver (Nanotech)
Life Support - Advanced Environmental Systems (Nanotech)
Stasis Chamber - Cryonics (Transhuman)

You should need at least one of each component to launch starship.

Space race starts with Apollo Program (Astro Environmental Systems) in late Atomic era.
If someone builds Apollo Program, then everyone can build spaceship parts, if they have prereq techs for them.

 

[Yudishtira]

Ok sorry raxo, you're right about the tech prereqs. And he hasn't built any of the components (according to the Cities/Wonders screen).
However:

It must be a bug with Mastery victory then, perhaps it assumes the spaceship is launched when its old vanilla prereqs have been met, because the Victory screen shows Willem's spaceship as 'Launched', and I'm pretty sure it's given him the 100 mastery points as well.

 

[raxo2222]

Ok sorry raxo, you're right about the tech prereqs. And he hasn't built any of the components (according to the Cities/Wonders screen).
However:
View attachment 522919
It must be a bug with Mastery victory then, perhaps it assumes the spaceship is launched when its old vanilla prereqs have been met, because the Victory screen shows Willem's spaceship as 'Launched', and I'm pretty sure it's given him the 100 mastery points as well.

Yeah, looks like error somewhere - there should be at least 4 stages:
Inactive - no one built Apollo Program.
Under Planning - this project is built but no parts were built yet.
Under Construction - First part of starship was built.
Launched - Starship on a way to target
Arrived at Target - Starship has arrived.

As for Cultural Victory, it counts legendary culture cities - there are three culture levels above Legendary: Illustrious, Phenomenal, and Monumental (one that I unlocked in last commit).

 

[Yudishtira]

As for Cultural Victory, it counts legendary culture cities - there are three culture levels above Legendary: Illustrious, Phenomenal, and Monumental (one that I unlocked in last commit).

I think that is fixed and it's really counting Phenomenal cities. If it was giving 30 points for every Legendary city I think I would have 10 times the points that I've got. Yes I'm fairly sure of that, because it has awarded me 30 points against the Cultural criteria, and I have 1 Phenomenal city.

 

[raxo2222]

I think that is fixed and it's really counting Phenomenal cities. If it was giving 30 points for every Legendary city I think I would have 10 times the points that I've got. Yes I'm fairly sure of that, because it has awarded me 30 points against the Cultural criteria, and I have 1 Phenomenal city.

Ah so text here isn't updated.

 

[raxo2222]

@pepper2000 it appears like Lunar Bases tech should be AFTER Commercial Spacecraft.
That is Construction Ship needs commercial space port.
Since space content is in Lunar Bases and nothing more I can rebase entire tech to be after Commercial Spaceflight - not sure if @KaTiON_PT has prepared Information era along with Prehistoric era to be launched before release.

Cost scaling is off since I created my experimental mod to catch such errors easily.

Spoiler :

 

[pepper2000]

I think it's OK as it is. A while ago I moved Lunar Bases forward a few columns from where it was before, but I like the idea of leaving a couple columns between it and the start of the Nanotech Era, to leave more time in the Information Era for space activities. The arrangement as it makes Commercial Spaceflight an informal prereq for Lunar Bases, as it is needed to build the units, but without pushing Lunar Bases to a later column.

 

[raxo2222]

I think it's OK as it is. A while ago I moved Lunar Bases forward a few columns from where it was before, but I like the idea of leaving a couple columns between it and the start of the Nanotech Era, to leave more time in the Information Era for space activities. The arrangement as it makes Commercial Spaceflight an informal prereq for Lunar Bases, as it is needed to build the units, but without pushing Lunar Bases to a later column.

Construction ship requires commercial space port, which is unlocked later.
This means you can't build it until you reach commercial spaceflight anyway.

I moved Lunar Bases column after Commercial Spaceflight now.
No difference in gameplay, but that tech isn't in confusing location anymore - everything in it was (in)directly ties to spaceport in commercial spaceflight.

Buildings and units shouldn't be unlocked before prereqs - its just bad design and confuses players.
They can be unlocked in same column though.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Buildings and units shouldn't be unlocked before prereqs - its just bad design and confuses players.
They can be unlocked in same column though.

I will second this.

What it would suggest is that if you wanted to keep the techs in the same order, the unit prereq should adjust.

However, I'm just looking at the one tech vs the other and trying to think which would probably come first in any reasonable timeline of development and it strikes me that Commercial Spaceflight would probably precede Lunar Bases. IIRC, the SpaceX plans are to enable commercial spaceflights simply into orbit and return quite soon, while we still strive to prepare to put a base on the moon. One shouldn't REQUIRE the other though because it COULD happen the other way around where the Moon base starts getting built before anyone starts paying for private flights into orbit. One issue with such flights is there's really no 'destination' except maybe a station in orbit. Once a Moon base is established, it would quickly become more likely that a private sector visitation sector would be established there for the ultra-wealthy. Still, I'm not sure where we are at right now with Commercial trips to space but last I heard it was right around the corner for us.

 

[raxo2222]

I will second this.

What it would suggest is that if you wanted to keep the techs in the same order, the unit prereq should adjust.

However, I'm just looking at the one tech vs the other and trying to think which would probably come first in any reasonable timeline of development and it strikes me that Commercial Spaceflight would probably precede Lunar Bases. IIRC, the SpaceX plans are to enable commercial spaceflights simply into orbit and return quite soon, while we still strive to prepare to put a base on the moon. One shouldn't REQUIRE the other though because it COULD happen the other way around where the Moon base starts getting built before anyone starts paying for private flights into orbit. One issue with such flights is there's really no 'destination' except maybe a station in orbit. Once a Moon base is established, it would quickly become more likely that a private sector visitation sector would be established there for the ultra-wealthy. Still, I'm not sure where we are at right now with Commercial trips to space but last I heard it was right around the corner for us.

So in game Construction Ships doesn't have to use commercial spaceport?

 

[Thunderbrd]

So in game Construction Ships doesn't have to use commercial spaceport?

I have no idea... wasn't commenting on that. If it does, and that makes for a proxy prereq, then I'm saying you are right to adjust things around. IMO anyhow.

 

[Faustmouse]

Still, I'm not sure where we are at right now with Commercial trips to space but last I heard it was right around the corner for us.

Commercial Spaceflight is more about non-governmental space flight, which means private companies that offer launch capailities for satellites and deliveries to the space station. I'd say we are well into commercial spaceflight as of now, since spaceX is now a major player in delivering stuff to orbit. What you mean is Space Tourism, which will come later in the tech tree.

 

[raxo2222]

Commercial Spaceflight is more about non-governmental space flight, which means private companies that offer launch capailities for satellites and deliveries to the space station. I'd say we are well into commercial spaceflight as of now, since spaceX is now a major player in delivering stuff to orbit. What you mean is Space Tourism, which will come later in the tech tree.

Space Tourism is before Lunar Bases and Commercial Spaceflight ingame.