New terrain features

[Hydromancerx]

@hydro what about the jungle and bamboo on marsh?

I was actually thinking about the Jungle one. I suppose Bamboo could work too.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@DH,
Well you Did ask didn't you?

As for Coastal Marsh dominating in the "down under", the Coastal Bayous of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida are like them too. And have as well Swamps and Marshes too.

But what I really wanted to ask about Coastal marshes with Mangrove is: why you can not settle a city on any flatland or hill that has the Mangrove on the marsh? Especially if there is a River and a Hill, can these ever be used? Or just limited to much later in the game? I don't see why a Mangrove marsh Hill by a river on the Coast can not be settled early game. In fact the Marsh on the Hill by the River seems odd. But maybe that's the way it is "Downunder"?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@DH,
Well you Did ask didn't you?

As for Coastal Marsh dominating in the "down under", the Coastal Bayous of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida are like them too. And have as well Swamps and Marshes too.

But what I really wanted to ask about Coastal marshes with Mangrove is: why you can not settle a city on any flatland or hill that has the Mangrove on the marsh? Especially if there is a River and a Hill, can these ever be used? Or just limited to much later in the game? I don't see why a Mangrove marsh Hill by a river on the Coast can not be settled early game. In fact the Marsh on the Hill by the River seems odd. But maybe that's the way it is "Downunder"?

JosEPh

1) Of course I asked. I need support in getting stuff past Hydro. My understanding of terrains and features is skewed towards deserts because I grew up in the driest state on the driest continent on the planet.

2) Marsh is the terrain. Mangrove and Swamp are terrain features. Need to keep that clear

3) That is one of the things I am trying to fix. I figured it would be best to make sure the terrains and features were working correctly first.

 

[JosEPh_II]

When can you settle a Marsh Hill with Mangrove on a river mouth on the coast?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Could you please add the following new resources?

Poinsettia
Graphic: Spice Honey (Dune Wars)
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Florestry
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Scrub, Plains, Grassland
Terrain Feature: Forest

Hydrangea
Graphic: Sand Verbena (Dune Wars)
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Florestry
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Lush, Muddy, Marsh
Terrain Feature: Jungle

Marigolds
Graphic: Creosote Bush (Dune Wars)
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Florestry
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Lush, Grassland, Plains

Emeralds
Graphic: Crystal (Dune Wars)
Revealed: Mining
Enabled: Mining
Other Stats: Same as Rubies, Sapphires, etc

Note we could always call the followers like Flowers (Red), Flowers (Purple), Flowers (Yellow), but I thought giving them specific names might help in figuring out their terrain placement.

Thanks!

 

[strategyonly]

Could you please add the following new resources?

No offense but WHY? I believe its hard enough "right now" trying to make a new map with all the resource(s) in C2C right now

 

[Hydromancerx]

No offense but WHY? I believe its hard enough "right now" trying to make a new map with all the resource(s) in C2C right now

I was going through some of the old requests I had and it seemed like having flowers would be a good addition. Right now we only have flowers indirectly such as with Indigo, Opium and Flax. Which are flowering plants but are used for other purposes besides their flowers.

 

[strategyonly]

I was going through some of the old requests I had and it seemed like having flowers would be a good addition. Right now we only have flowers indirectly such as with Indigo, Opium and Flax. Which are flowering plants but are used for other purposes besides their flowers.

I understand those we have, they do have a real purpose even nowadays, but what do flowers have to do with trading, economy, buildings, units, etc etc?? I am just trying to understand why is all??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I understand those we have, they do have a real purpose even nowadays, but what do flowers have to do with trading, economy, buildings, units, etc etc?? I am just trying to understand why is all??

Besides the perfume, cosmetics, cooking and florist industries you mean? How about the tulip boom and bust that brought economies to their knees!

@Hydro adding more resources means reducing the occurrence of those that we already have. It is probably about time we started thinking of limiting some resources by map size and the same for buildings.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I understand those we have, they do have a real purpose even nowadays, but what do flowers have to do with trading, economy, buildings, units, etc etc?? I am just trying to understand why is all??

Holland Tulip stocks of 1636

@Hydro adding more resources means reducing the occurrence of those that we already have. It is probably about time we started thinking of limiting some resources by map size and the same for buildings.

I have been thinking about that. Resources like flowers (and crops) are limited to different parts of the world. Some times occurring only in once place. And only by cultivating them in other places will the plant become more common. For instance many types of now "common" garden flowers originate from a small isolated part of China. Some are even extinct in the wild, yet exist as domesticated species around the world.

We might want to think about having units "discover" new plant species that are not generated on the map but can be placed on the map by some sort of great farmer type unit.

EDIT: In fact we might want to do this more with living resources (animals and plants) discovered after the map has been made. And only discovered later through events and/or unit discovery.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We might want to think about having units "discover" new plant species that are not generated on the map but can be placed on the map by some sort of great farmer type unit.

EDIT: In fact we might want to do this more with living resources (animals and plants) discovered after the map has been made. And only discovered later through events and/or unit discovery.

Something that we talked about briefly on the Johny Smith Ideas thread. Especially for the nomadic era part of the game.

 

[Yudishtira]

Thanks DH for those great tables.

How do Peaks work with respect to Terrain Damage? Are they a 'terrain' or a 'feature' in that respect?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Thanks DH for those great tables.

How do Peaks work with respect to Terrain Damage? Are they a 'terrain' or a 'feature' in that respect?

The tables were originally done by Jugger I am just reusing them. Eventually I plan on having them in the opening post as a reference.

Peaks are neither one nor the other. You would need to look at the XML to figure out where "they" put the terrain damage stuff on since it can be on either but only negated on terrain I think.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm going to formally re-suggest that all 'living' resources, flora and fauna, be converted to 'improvements' or 'features' that can grow, spread, be programmed to move, be eliminated, sprout or migrate throughout the game, etc... At this time, graphically, the improvements method would work best, though we still need to do some programming to enable the prerequisite of an existing improvement to build a particular improvement on the same plot (improvement upgrades as it were.)

And probably the event mechanism needs its planned improvements to manage some of these 'living' effects.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm going to formally re-suggest that all 'living' resources, flora and fauna, be converted to 'improvements' or 'features' that can grow, spread, be programmed to move, be eliminated, sprout or migrate throughout the game, etc... At this time, graphically, the improvements method would work best, though we still need to do some programming to enable the prerequisite of an existing improvement to build a particular improvement on the same plot (improvement upgrades as it were.)

And probably the event mechanism needs its planned improvements to manage some of these 'living' effects.

How will that influence city vicinity code? Not only do buildings such as a Corn Farm depend upon them but also Culture Wonders depend on them.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Currently only improvements upgrade and only features spread. Bonuses can't even be controlled by North/South let alone East/West - so to get kangaroos in Australia you also have to have them in Europe.

Upgrading features would be nice, I wont have to program them using a plot property.

 

[ls612]

I would be in favor of having one 'flower/herb' resource using those graphics from Dune Wars, but probably not all three. As DH said it dilutes other (more important) resources like Corn and Iron, and as SO said how much of the herbs are similar to each other.

 

[Thunderbrd]

How will that influence city vicinity code? Not only do buildings such as a Corn Farm depend upon them but also Culture Wonders depend on them.

I'm not saying some coding wouldn't be necessary to support this but I can talk more about that later when I have more time to post.

 

[AIAndy]

How will that influence city vicinity code? Not only do buildings such as a Corn Farm depend upon them but also Culture Wonders depend on them.

The expression system variant of city vicinity that also works with features and improvements is:

<ConstructCondition>
  <IntegrateOr>
    <RelationType>RELATION_WORKING</RelationType>
    <GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
    <Has>
      <GOMType>GOM_FEATURE</GOMType>
      <ID>FEATURE_FOREST</ID>
    </Has>
  </IntegrateOr>
</ConstructCondition>

 

[God-Emperor]

Instead of changing a huge amount of stuff by converting a bunch of bonuses to improvements and/or features and then making improvements and/or features do some additional things, why not just make the bonuses do the things you want them to? Save a step.

There is already some resource spreading since farms can randomly add a bonus just like mines do (but for a different set of bonuses, of course), as can jungle camps, and there is no particular reason that the bonuses they can find have to be put on the map by a map script. Pastures can't currently be built on plots without animal bonuses on them so there is no equivalent spawning feature for the fauna that the flora and mineral type bonuses already have, but some animals have an outcome other than "kill" or "capture" which can create a bonus and that could be expanded into more types (although you can't really control where it puts them other than positioning a scout on the desired plot and hoping the right kind of animal attacks him and gets the 2% chance to spawn a bonus there, and it probably doesn't have any chance if there is already a bonus on the plot, even if you haven't revealed it yet). And there is also the option to use some of the subdued animals to make herds in the city, which is similar but not the same.