New terrain features

[Thunderbrd]

I am assuming that Thunderbrd's remark is pointed at this question. Also... if anyone is good at modifying points on a 3d graphic, the "oasis" feature would be a good starting point. Make the "pit" smaller, take out the water so that it is an actual hole, and duplicate the points so that we can create a few "sinkholes". That is all that would be necessary for the ordinary Karst terrain. Also, I have noticed some rocks that stick out of the water in places on the map... modifying these (making more a couple more mounts) and adding some vegetation/grass would work for the tower karst graphic IMO.

Yes, that was what I was responding to.

We could also make transition terrains that raise base elevation levels too. This could get interesting. I'll have to look into that option soon. I have and know bryce pretty well and could create quite a bit of options for us to work with if I could figure out how to transition from there to the game. Your Karst features, sinkholes, improved 'rocky' terrain, ridges, cliffs, fractured terrains... you name it. All would be made quite easily, at least in polygonal 3d structure anyhow.

I may tool around with it a bit this weekend, at least just to see what I'd have to do to make the transitions to civ workable 3d. (though I have a few pressing debug tasks that will take priority.)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also, I have noticed some rocks that stick out of the water in places on the map...

They are the stone resource.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Hydro, I tried to add the mangrove feature but the in game graphics contain two white vertical squares. Unfortunately I can't post a screen shot or the files at the moment because nothing happens when I press the "Manage Attachments" button. Would it work if I put a compressed file on the SVN in NewResources then you could extract it and have a look without upsetting anyone's game.

Two problems with defining mangroves

1) there is no coastal only for features that I could see

2) there is no way I could see of limiting the latitude.

 

[Hydromancerx]

0. Ok put it on the SVN and I will take a look.

1. Hmm what about just limiting it to Marsh terrain? That seems like the best we can do at the moment.

2. Well that sucks. I guess will will just have work with what we got. Unless we are adding like different types of Marsh terrain such as ...

Bog = Polar Marsh
Marsh = Temperate Marsh
Bayou = Tropical Marsh

I would have used "Swamp" for the Tropical Marsh name but its name is already taken as a terrain feature. Unless that is re-named.

The other problem is we would need to create new wetland promotions too. Ugh.

So yeah I say just leave it as it is (if we can get it to work) and not worry about new types of Marshes. It would probably be easier to code a latitude tag than it would be adding new types of terrains anyways.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Currently we add the types of marsh in after normal map generation in a post mapscript C2C section that knows where things should be.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well I think I have fixed the Mangroves. I will be uploading it to the SVN as soon as I test it in game. However in my tests it did not look that bad in the coast terrain so perhaps we should have it generate in both Marsh and Tropical Coast.

You will still have to do the unpacking for the xml files on the SVN, once I have fixed the graphics.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Ok it works and here is a picture. The texture was just not showing up before. Which is why it had white squares. The squares are still there but are mostly transparent now. The parts that are not transparent look like the tree.

You can put in the XML part now. Hopefully with Tropical Coast generation too.

They are a little spare, but its a trade off between too many polygons and not enough trees. If there are too many polygons then the game slows down. Thus 4 trees per tile is probably a good balance.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Hydro you will be pleased to know that I have found the problem which was stopping me going ahead with the resources. So now I have Fossil, Guinea Pig, Henna and Indigo resources working. I think I may have a way of keeping things save compatible with removing the Fossil Feature and making Dye not a map resource. That will have to wait awhile.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Cool! Thanks for keeping me updated.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Ok it works and here is a picture. The texture was just not showing up before. Which is why it had white squares. The squares are still there but are mostly transparent now. The parts that are not transparent look like the tree.

You can put in the XML part now. Hopefully with Tropical Coast generation too.

They are a little spare, but its a trade off between too many polygons and not enough trees. If there are too many polygons then the game slows down. Thus 4 trees per tile is probably a good balance.

Just caught this... was it possible with the program you were designing these with, to generate them with a reduced polygon count? It always seems like the reduced polygon structure is going to look like crap by being over smoothed out but once I've got the texture applied, it usually works at far cruder counts than I think its going to when I'm doing stuff like this. I've taken a look at the polygons on some of our units and marvel at the magic the textures pull off to make them look good despite the poly count.

Not that these are bad, quite good actually by the tree, but they don't appear to blend with the other forest terrains or with each other very smoothly is all and I think that's due to only having 4 of them and all in the dead middle of the tile without a spread to the outer limits of the tile like most of the forests seem to have now. Then again, you may have blank tiles in between throwing off my assessment in that image.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Well this model is actually very interesting. Most of it is just a flat square with transparent parts. All the leaves and trunk are o the flat part. Its only around the roots and some of the top that have an actual 3D mesh. Since its pulled from Zoo Tycoon 2 I am not completely sure how they made it. However it seems to look nice still.

And yeah a lot of the units in civ4 and zoo tycoon 2 actually have low polys with really good textures to fool your eyes.

The set up was my doing. I took one tree and then took out the cattail plant and then put it on top. That's why it has the same floor tile as the cattail terrain feature. I was not sure how close together they would be in the editor. I could add more to each tile but I was worrying that it would be too graphics intensive.

But honestly that was hard to get converted and even now I am not eve sure how I made it work right. So just be happy I was able to do what I did. ZT2 plants are crazy to convert.

 

[AIAndy]

Just caught this... was it possible with the program you were designing these with, to generate them with a reduced polygon count? It always seems like the reduced polygon structure is going to look like crap by being over smoothed out but once I've got the texture applied, it usually works at far cruder counts than I think its going to when I'm doing stuff like this. I've taken a look at the polygons on some of our units and marvel at the magic the textures pull off to make them look good despite the poly count.

Not that these are bad, quite good actually by the tree, but they don't appear to blend with the other forest terrains or with each other very smoothly is all and I think that's due to only having 4 of them and all in the dead middle of the tile without a spread to the outer limits of the tile like most of the forests seem to have now. Then again, you may have blank tiles in between throwing off my assessment in that image.

Forests are tile art features. They are actually not one model file, but many, which are then used depending on other things in the plot.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd

Well this model is actually very interesting. Most of it is just a flat square with transparent parts. All the leaves and trunk are o the flat part. Its only around the roots and some of the top that have an actual 3D mesh. Since its pulled from Zoo Tycoon 2 I am not completely sure how they made it. However it seems to look nice still.

And yeah a lot of the units in civ4 and zoo tycoon 2 actually have low polys with really good textures to fool your eyes.

The set up was my doing. I took one tree and then took out the cattail plant and then put it on top. That's why it has the same floor tile as the cattail terrain feature. I was not sure how close together they would be in the editor. I could add more to each tile but I was worrying that it would be too graphics intensive.

But honestly that was hard to get converted and even now I am not eve sure how I made it work right. So just be happy I was able to do what I did. ZT2 plants are crazy to convert.

I can understand that! Sounds like you did well to achieve what you did I was just offering some feedback if you ever wanted to try to 'perfect' it. But I'm personally reluctant to work with 3d art design too much - very time consuming and always difficult. And some of the programs Civ4 relies on for that in general are NOT user friendly at all. The animator in particular is a wretched program.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

How come the new trees don't look like the new trees from the Any Fun Mod? They are like bright green while these show ones that actually match the existing trees.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Dancing Hoskuld

How come the new trees don't look like the new trees from the Any Fun Mod? They are like bright green while these show ones that actually match the existing trees.

Perhaps because I am not using those - I never got round to using them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Perhaps because I am not using those - I never got round to using them.

Well perhaps you should, since the "new" trees look more like fake plastic trees with that weird green color on them. Especially since they have green trunks.

 

[ls612]

Well perhaps you should, since the "new" trees look more like fake plastic trees with that weird green color on them. Especially since they have green trunks.

Yeah, I've disliked those ones since they started appearing (in the summer I think). They look ugly and unrealistic.

 

[strategyonly]

@Dancing Hoskuld

How come the new trees don't look like the new trees from the Any Fun Mod? They are like bright green while these show ones that actually match the existing trees.

I have plans for he Ancient Forest, its just that i am not in the python mood right now to do that kind of stuff, but i want it to be EXACTLY what FfH2 does.

 

[Il Principe]

Is there a possbility of hot springs added? They could apperar near volcanos and reduce in nearby cities, probably giving comemerce later ( around Romanticism)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Is there a possbility of hot springs added? They could apperar near volcanos and reduce in nearby cities, probably giving comemerce later ( around Romanticism)

Well there is already a graphic for it from this mod.

Its just a matter of someone putting it in.