New UU ?

[unscratchedfoot]

Originally posted by Akka

Anyone has an idea about which modern armor the Russian should get ?

There are models for the T-90, T-62 and T-55 all in the unit graphics forum. And they are professional quality made with 3D graphics programs. It's a tough choice. I think the T-62 & T-55 should go to weaker non-USA aligned countries and of course the T-90 should be Russian with the T-34 as the WWII Russian tank (Play the World has a real sweet T-34 in it's extras folder).

 

[Akka]

Thanks.

Found and used the T-80 for Russian UU ^^

 

[ArmPilot]

Originally posted by homeyg
Maybe you should make each Civ have its own unit for each age??

That would be unrealistic. Whats would the romans or ,any other ancient civ for that matter, gett in the modern age and visa verca.

 

[Akka]

(most of all, that would be far too much work ^^)

 

[yoshi]

I'm not even sure I even like the idea of the American F-15 and German Panzer. There should be no modern UUs IMO.

Ancient/middle age (with some early industrial like Man-o-War perhaps but that 's it) makes sense because it represents cultural differences but by the modern age it is prejudice if anything (e.g. the F-15 is the result of advances in technology as a result of wealth, not culture...that is unless you think the US is advanced just because they are culturally superior to the rest of the world ).

 

[Akka]

It's a point of flavour. Units that represent the civ at the peak of its power.
USA is in its actual golden age, just like Rome was in the Ancient Times. So it makes sense to give a special UU for modern times to USA

 

[Chieftess]

I think GreyFox made one, and even I was starting to make one last year... 2nd UU in bold.

America : F-15, gunship or those new laser helicopters.
Arabia : Ansar, ? Don't know what a Hashishin is.
Aztecs : Jaguar Warrior, Some name Ehecatl Atzin told me once that I can't spell... Could be used for a Guerrila fighter
Babylon : Bowman, SCUD Missle
Byzantium : Dromon, Cataphract
Carthage : Numidian Mercanary, Elephant Archer
Celts : Gallic Swordsman, Raod Warrior
China : Rider, some modern missle?
Egypt : War Chariot, Camel Rider
England : Man-o-War, Longbowman.
France : Musketeer, ?.
Germany : Panzer, Teutonic Knight.
Greece : Hoplite, Trireme.
Hittites : 3-Man Chariot, ?.
Incas : Inca scout, Some made up Trebuchet type unit.
Indians : Elephant, ?.
Iroquois : Mounted Warrior, Some made up Artillery type unit.
Japan : Samurai, Ninja - or Kamikaze.
Korea : Hwach'a, Turtleship (armored frigate type unit)
Maya: Javelineer, Queztacoatl Bowman.
Mongols : Keshik, Some horseman unit?.
Netherlands: Swiss Mercanary, ?.
Ottomans : Siphahi, Janissary.
Persia : Immortals, ?.
Portuguese : Carrack, ?.
Rome : Legionary, Phalanx, or Fire Catapult
Russia : Cossack, ?.
Spain : Conquistador, ?.
Sumeria: Enkidu Warrior, ?
Vikings : Berserker, Longboat.
Zulus : Impi, ?.

There's some units that don't have UUs -

Settler
Worker
Rifleman
Infantry
Marine
Modern Paratrooper
Mech Inf
Modern Armor
Catapult
Artillery
Radar Artillery
Cruise Missle
Tactical Nuke
ICBM
Galleon
Ironclad
Transport
Carrier
Submarine
Nuclear Submarine
Destroyer
Battleship
Aegis Cruiser
Fighter
Bomber
Helicopter
Stealth Fighter
Stealth Bomber
Privateer
Medival Infantry
Guerilla
Trebuchet
Cruiser
Curragh
Paratrooper
TOW Infantry
Flak
Mobile SAM

(Crusaders and Ancient Cavs are 'special units', though)

Note: I think the bombard units need to be available to all civs in order for civs with bombard UUs to capture normal bombadrment units. Also, I can see why Mech Inf and Modern Armor don't have UUs. They're the last units available.


I usually like UUs that are in seperate eras, that way, a civ wouldn't become overly powerful. Also, some like Rome and Greece are kind of hard to pick.

 

[Hygro]

Chieftess, you are on to something with the American gunship idea. Right now our military is so insanely powerful per man that (if you are modding enough, Akka, therefore are willing to add units not directly based on others) some kind of ground unit for precision bombing or similiar tech that has incredibly high attack value could make a lot of sense.

 

[JedaiNait]

The dutch should have a VOC-ship as UU. Problem is, it's actually a commercial ship. Maybe another 17th century vessel.

 

[yoshi]

Originally posted by Akka
It's a point of flavour. Units that represent the civ at the peak of its power.
USA is in its actual golden age, just like Rome was in the Ancient Times. So it makes sense to give a special UU for modern times to USA

That's a reasonable explanation where Civ3's format is concerned: successful F-15s trigger golden age for Americans.
The question is, doesn't this create a slightly unfair situtation for the other civs? What I mean is that US technological superiority resulted from playing the cards dealt properly (so to speak ), unlike other "civs" that had similar potential but failed when it the pressure was on. So, any wealthy state could potentially develope just as sophisticated fighters (and some have).

In other words, IMO there should either be no modern UUs at all, or there should be one for each civ and each unit type (e.g. Russia = Tank: T-34; Fighter: Yak-9; Jet Fighter: MiG-29, etc. --you'd have to make up some imaginary Stealth Fighter/Bomber equivilant since none exists in reality...that we know of).

 

[Akka]

Ah well, lots to answer ^^


Chieftess :
I thought about the gunship, and my previous version of the mod included it. But Civ3 doesn't simulate well helicopter, and it was definitely feeling far too "artificial", so I finally removed it. Perhaps in a further version

The Hashishin is the name that was given to members of an Arab sect during the Crusades. They were famous for their frenzy in battle, and their lack of fear. They got into this near-transe battle furor by smoking hashish, so they were called Hashishin (which is the origin of the word "Assassin" IIRC).

For Rome, yes, a fire catapult is a good addition (and it's already in a conquest scenario, so easier to find ^^).

There is no problem for having a Moderan Armor as UU in my mod : there is a last additionnal level of mainstream units after the ones of regular civ (I expanded a bit the modern age, which was singulary lacking, and added one sci-fi unit for attack, defense, air, special operations and bombing).

When it was appropriate, I also put UU at different times, but it requires that the civilization has survived through different eras, and was a main power in them (works for England, France, Russia, but nor for Rome, Egypt or USA, for example).


Hygro : well, USA gets an improved special operation unit (improved paratrooper/marine), with added A/D. Somehow consistent with what you said ^^


JedaiNait : there is no Dutch in my mod. Sorry.


Yoshi : well, it's true for every civilization, that the golden age is just the moment where the cards are better played
Having an improved fighter as the F-15 for USA, is no more unfair than having an improved Ship of the Line for the English, or an improved Footman for Rome. It's just that they had, historically speaking, an edge on some domain at some time, or simply a moment in their past where they were at their peak. The UU reflect this peak, by (somehow artificially) giving them the edge they were supposed to have

 

[unscratchedfoot]

Originally posted by Akka
Ah well, lots to answer ^^


Chieftess :
I thought about the gunship, and my previous version of the mod included it. But Civ3 doesn't simulate well helicopter, and it was definitely feeling far too "artificial", so I finally removed it. Perhaps in a further version

A modern game of civ is just not the same without apaches, blackhawks and hind gunships. The 3D models look almost like real choppers. I just use them as short range aircraft with more deadly bombards (precision payload delivery) and extra hit points because they are armored and extremely expensive.

 

[Tathlum]

Celts : Gallic Swordsman, Raod Warrior

What is a raod warrior? Anyway there are plenty of much more suitable UU's available for Celts without making up ones. Somebody mentioned Welsh Longbowmen already, but how about..

Gallowglachts; chainmail clad, professional axemen mercenaries, that madeup the backbone of Irish cheifdoms Armies and were used even in Elizabethan times. Originally emigrants from Scotland where they also served the scottish Kings.
FLCS: Utahjazz's Anglo-Danish Huscarl.
STATS: 4/3/1, Replace Medieval Infantry(?).

OR

Kerns; Contemporaries of the Gallowglachts, lightly armed skirmishers who made up the bulk of Irish Forces during the Irish Wars. They specialised in hit and run attacks and ambushes. Armed with a variety of weapons but mainly Swords and, most feared, Darts. Basically the Freemen Farmers called up to fight.
FLCS: In the absence of any javelineers('cept conversion, which I'm not mad on) the European Swordsman also by Utahjazz(I think) would do.
STATS: move of 2 and ignor move cost of forest, marsh and hills a must. How about 3/1/2 ignore hills, forest, marsh, cheap replacement for Pikes? (pikes were very rare in Ireland at least, mostly trained up by deserters from English Service).

OR

Highlanders: Scotts clansmen, hangon you know the guys I'm on about. Here I mean the early type, not armed with muskets.
FLICS; The Scottish Warrior by Kindred32( I think I got the right number, antway its Kindred not Kinboat)
STATS; 4/2/2 ignore move cost of hills,mountains, replace Medieval infantry.

OR

Highland Rifles: Highland Clans with gunpowder. The highland charge was devestating. First fire muskets at enemy, using confusion and disorder in enemy ranks, charge hard and beat the Bejaysus out of them with swords up close.
FLICS; Nothing matches just right.. However if you are willing to use a bit of artistic lisence, Kinboats man at arms fires a pistol then attacks with a sword. Doesn't look right but then neither does an Immortal using a sword..
STATS; 6!/3/1 replace musketman, OR 6!/3/2 ignore hills/Mountains Replace Knight(but maybee needs Saltpeter?)

Right theres four more real life, distinctive, Medieval units without making anything up or going into dodgy territory like a Geurilla UU...

Whaddya think?

 

[JedaiNait]

Originally posted by Akka

JedaiNait : there is no Dutch in my mod. Sorry.

Dude, you're ignoring the greatest civilization of all time...

Well it's your loss offcourse

 

[yoshi]

What is a raod warrior?

I’m not absolutely sure but I think it’s meant to be ‘Woad Warrior’ (I think I remember AoE2 giving this unit to the Scottish player).

Originally posted by Akka
Having an improved fighter as the F-15 for USA, is no more unfair than having an improved Ship of the Line for the English, or an improved Footman for Rome. It's just that they had, historically speaking, an edge on some domain at some time, or simply a moment in their past where they were at their peak. The UU reflect this peak, by (somehow artificially) giving them the edge they were supposed to have

Yep. Since Firaxis decided to artificially give certain civs an edge at different stages of development, this means that these civs have a military and potentially economic one as well (i.e. via UU-triggered GA).

English developed better ships because they had a lot of experience in shipbuilding (just ask a Scot ). This would constitute a cultural factor, not a technological one.

Americans developed better aircraft because they had a technological edge, thus had little to do with culture and everything to do with economics and the military requirements of the time (although it could be argued that it was American culture that allowed the US to develop to such a degree whereas someone else in the same situation would not have been so successful --but we’ll assume for simplicity and game-balancing purposes that this is not a factor).

So, Pre-modern UUs make sense because those civs would have had a military/cultural advantage even when at an economic/geographic disadvantage (i.e. the English would have developed better ship-building even had they not been economically successful; they simply wouldn’t have had as many ships).

Whereas, modern military technology is developed as a result of whether or not the state (civ) can afford the research and development of these techs/units.

Just my opinion really; it is kind of mute point because geographic location, cultural exchang, etc. have a big impact on how military technology develops, so there is really no way of effectively mimicking those factors using Civ3’s simple engine. (Besides, people seem to really like thinking up modern UUs so who am I to argue. ) Sorry for taking up posting space with my meandering.

 

[Zenon_pt]

Portuguese: Carrack or Nau, and maybe a Mediavel Infantry.

 

[Zenon_pt]

Originally posted by Akka

Byzantium : Dromon, Cataphract.

Incas : Inca scout.

Portugal, Holland, Maya, Hittites???

For the Hittites a Unit base on Swordsman (with Iron Working as the tech)

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by Zenon_pt
Portugal, Holland, Maya, Hittites???

I removed them (Sumeria too).


Yoshi : Well, the "clanic swordsman" was, in fact, a highlander. Good pick for the gallowglass and the kern, though. I will put the first one for which I find a good custum unit

 

[Alfonso]

Spain: Tercios

 

[Xen]

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