New Version - August 23rd (8-23)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,
New version inbound:

General:

• Bugfixes and github issue resolution
• AI settling logic improvements
• Adjusted AI diplo logic for vassalage and some deals, including OB
• Fixed some incorrect text in places
• CSs should build larger armies/navies (harder to bully, but also better at not getting wrecked by barbs)
  
• Decreased barbarian spawn rates slightly (10%), increased penalty for chill barbarians (so chill barbs are more chill)
• CS Quest Rewards now update at era change and CS quest reward change (policy)
  • Also updated the random modifiers for these quests slightly (balance - makes these more relevant)
  • Influence from quests now scales with era, so quest completion in late-game has appreciable affect on your influence
• Fixed CS influence degrading too quickly below 100 influence

Balance:

• Pantheons:
  • Earth Mother: now +2g on Monuments, +1f/+1p on mine resources
    • (the +3 production spike on monuments was simply too much - AIs that took this often dominated the game)
  • Goddess of Protection: now +2f on palace, walls, and barracks (was +1)
  • Ancestor Worship: Council now +1c/+1s (was +2c)
  • Sun God: farms now +2 faith, +1 food/culture
    • Fun fact: I've never seen an AI found with this.
  • Festivals: now +1c/food/g/faith
• Followers:
  • Cooperation now +6 (was +7)
  • Yield per follower yields modified:
  • All 'per 2' followers now cap at 15 (30 followers max)
  • Gold moved to +1 per follower - caps at 10 (food caps at 10 as well)
  • Mastery - now +1 to specialist yields (was +2)
• Specialists:
  • Moved culture bump for science specialists to theology, reduced by 1
    • Scientists should not be (almost) as good at culture as writers
  • Merchant - Caravansary/Burial Tomb now gives Merchant specialists +1 Gold in the city
• Denmark
  • Reduced UB pillage bonus to 5/5, took away route pillage bonus (only works on actual improvements)
• Buildings:
  • Coal Plant now Coal Refinery - grants 3 Coal, 15% production/+3 production in city, but you can only build 5 total. Causes Poverty.

Online as of 12:30am EST. Not savegame compatible.

Link: https://mega.nz/#!OZcQVQIL!LByCvbbFQhlqy_FY6ry2_h3MyWMNuSaTPBbczkchX_k


G

 

[Gokudo01]

Hey all,
New version inbound:



[...]


G

Here comes the Nerf BAT

Spoiler :

 

[Stalker0]

Sun God: farms now +2 faith, +1 food/culture

So every farm gives 3 food, 1 c, and 2 f? That seems.....extremely OP I feel like I am missing something there, is it only for wheat?

 

[kawyua]

Sun God: farms now +2 faith, +1 food/culture

So every farm gives 3 food, 1 c, and 2 f? That seems.....extremely OP I feel like I am missing something there, is it only for wheat?

It is only for farms on wheat, i'm pretty sure.
oh the nerf bat is strong.

Happy to see festivals and earth mother halved anyways, they were really strong.

edit: wait there is food on festivals... waaaaiiit

 

[vuko]

Do before Reinessance ships count towards CS bullying?

 

[tu_79]

Some of the changes are more or less expected. Vassallage was giving problems, people still complained about rough barbarian starts, and the new influence decay was not working properly. Denmark was reportedly too strong.

A little surprised about the buff to late CS quests, it wasn't really needed but not bad either, perhaps. Civs that are leading usually fulfill quests without trying, and that could snowball harder into the late game. We'll see.

Also unexpected the coal refinery. We all were complaining about coal being sparse, nice you did something about it.

I won't say the tweaks for pantheons were undeserved (Sun God I never got to use myself, for wheat is rare to have enough of them close together so you can work it with your 2-3 first cities, Cooperation and Mastery being the go to follower beliefs for tall), but it strikes me as a huge nerf to tall playing. Were tall civs overperforming?

By the way, with my usual resource placement, +2 faith on farmed wheat may yield +8 faith with a bit of luck before turn 90. I don't think it's going to work much better towards founding and the other yields are not enough to see it as a non founding pantheon. Goddess of Protection seems usable now.

 

[Myrrdin_Emrys]

for farms on ressources

if you have a farm on cattle or stone cuz u build it before discovering the appropriate technology, the bonus works too !

I love the change for caravansaries (giving it more love) and for coal !

by the way was the AI logic so imprived in the last versions, cuz it seems i can't win anymore on my usual settings difficulty (maybe i should lower it )

 

[Gokudo01]

G, can you reduce the coal apparition(and increase iron) in communitas because it was the most prevalent resource on this map and with the new changes, its abundance doesn't make any sense.

 

[Magean]

Hey all,
Adjusted AI diplo logic for vassalage and some deals, including OB
G

Great! Looking forward to playing that

 

[Mad Madigan]

G, can you reduce the coal apparition(and increase iron) in communitas because it was the most prevalent resource on this map and with the new changes, its abundance doesn't make any sense.

Agreed, but I don't think it needs a huge adjustment. The Communitas resource prevalence (at least on Standard) seems to produce a little too many horses and coal (mostly too much coal) but not enough iron. I've played more than one game using Communitas over the last several months where there was literally 0 iron resources within 12 hexes of my capital city and the only way I could get iron was through CS alliances or trading. As a non-Domination Vic civ that can be fine, but if I were playing as Zulu or Japan or so forth and spawned with no iron anywhere near my capital I'd be pretty screwed over. I've seen this happen often enough that I'll make a Github request about it later.

 

[Barak]

Why the change to Mastery? Was it really that dominant? I hardly ever saw the AI take it.

 

[ElliotS]

Why the change to Mastery? Was it really that dominant? I hardly ever saw the AI take it.

It was extremely OP when you compared raw yields. It also comes online fast with no faith commitment. (like buildings)

 

[Gokudo01]

Agreed, but I don't think it needs a huge adjustment. The Communitas resource prevalence (at least on Standard) seems to produce a little too many horses and coal (mostly too much coal) but not enough iron. I've played more than one game using Communitas over the last several months where there was literally 0 iron resources within 12 hexes of my capital city and the only way I could get iron was through CS alliances or trading. As a non-Domination Vic civ that can be fine, but if I were playing as Zulu or Japan or so forth and spawned with no iron anywhere near my capital I'd be pretty screwed over. I've seen this happen often enough that I'll make a Github request about it later.

I hope that they will heed our call here

 

[Owlbebach]

First of all, i appreciate the changes, i think they are really a step into right direction. However some of them seem a bit weird.

First of all - Earth Mother is now weaker than it was before it was buffed. Back in time it was +2 from Monument and +1/+1 from Mines, now it is +2 from Monuments and +1/+1 from Mines. This actually means that in order to get the same bonus as before you need to work two mines. Thing is that 1=2 (roughly) so the pantheon is now weaker than it was before the buff. With that said i agree that 3 from Monument was OP. Maybe 1 additional hammer per monument?

Festivals also seem quite weak now. 1 is nice, but it worth less than 1 gold and culture due to recent changes to AI prices for luxuries. Back in time festivals were OP because AI was selling its last luxury for 2 per turn. Now the price is 4 per turn and festivals were okay. I think Festivals should have 1 additional .

I'm pretty sure Mastery deserved a nerf, but probably not that big. Maybe it should give some other flat bonus in addition to specialists?

 

[Chandler]

I'm pretty sure Mastery deserved a nerf, but probably not that big. Maybe it should give some other flat bonus in addition to specialists?

And what about +2 to specialist yields in the capital, and +1 in the rest of the cities? Maybe not that much of a nerf, but just an idea.

 

[Owlbebach]

And what about +2 to specialist yields in the capital, and +1 in the rest of the cities? Maybe not that much of a nerf, but just an idea.

As far as i know - that would be hard to code

 

[Txurce]

I really look forward to the changes to barbs, vassals, and OB, and appreciate the focus there.

It does look like Tradition beleifs were nerfed, but the AI was all but ignoring Progress.

I wonder about Festivals' nerf, in that the civs it helped aren't powerhouses for the most part.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Given that the other Follow beliefs were also somewhat nerfed, I'm pretty comfortable with where Mastery ended up this patch. I got the feeling from past discussions that Follower beliefs, in the long run, were overperforming and making owning/controlling a religion too overly powerful. This is the same reason many of the Founder beliefs have been heavily balanced over the last several patches. I'd agree that maybe Earth Mother was beaten down a bit hard compared to where they were, but it's no joke that +3P to monuments was really, REALLY good in too many circumstances.

My only concern is that as the religious beliefs approach a balanced state, Civs whose unique bonuses rely on religion will need propping up in some areas (India, Celts, Byzantium, etc.). For example, Byzantium's UA is only as powerful as Religion as a whole is within the context of the game. At a certain point in religious belief nerfs, these religion-focused Civs may need a little extra help (for example, by getting a UA bonus that slightly buffs certain religious beliefs only for themselves, like India's cheaper GPs or Celt's better Pantheons).

Just a thought. Cheers!

 

[thecraftybee]

I'd love to see more options for religious beliefs. One of Engineseer's mods adds additional building beliefs, but I think the game could use more non-building beliefs. I loved Mastery and Cooperation and would love to see more beliefs of this type, perhaps when you birth or bulb a GP, research a tech, expand a border, use a missionary/inquisitor etc. I find the yield / follower beliefs quite boring, although occasionally I will take the Culture or Food one.

The nerf to Mastery seems a little overboard. Maybe give them an additional GPP as well as the single yield?

@vuko I know Quinquereme's count towards bullying, so I imagine all others do too, but not checked.

 

[Gazebo]

I'd love to see more options for religious beliefs. One of Engineseer's mods adds additional building beliefs, but I think the game could use more non-building beliefs. I loved Mastery and Cooperation and would love to see more beliefs of this type, perhaps when you birth or bulb a GP, research a tech, expand a border, use a missionary/inquisitor etc. I find the yield / follower beliefs quite boring, although occasionally I will take the Culture or Food one.

The nerf to Mastery seems a little overboard. Maybe give them an additional GPP as well as the single yield?

@vuko I know Quinquereme's count towards bullying, so I imagine all others do too, but not checked.

Not adding any more features.