New Version - November 5th (11/5)

[Archonios]

What a twist, players in multiplayer games have different playstyles. PROTIP: the same is applicable to civ5 multiplayer.
Also your comparison is incorrect, because MOBA is essentially a dumbed down version of RTS, so you technically should compare RTS to TBS. However, despite RTS having an advantage of clear as crystal mechanics (you can easily pin-point what exactly lead to your defeat), you can't have 20hr long game sessions in them, without dying from borefest.

After the early 00's the RTS genre is almost the same. Nothing major. It is much easier and faster to see what you did wrong in mobas. Death (penalty for losing) is rather obvious. What people dont understand is that you dont have to build full items to win. Dota/Lol are following this. If the game hasn't finished in 25~35mins you did something wrong (dying, not going for the right objectives, poor mechanics).

You see X unit? If you lose X unit you lose Y damage and some utility. You also should destroy the enemy X unit or force him to move to the Z location so you can kill the other soldiers easier. Ain't that the same formula in RTS too?

 

[a1nosweat]

Merged major Ilteroi improvements to tactial AI, deal AI, plot scoring algorithms and assorted bugfixes/optimizations

link to more details?

Good news: we're getting closer to finishing this project! Bad news: we're almost at our memory cap, which means no new features. Seriously! We have to be lean from here on out.

You mean we might have to play a poorly optimised version of CIV? Shock horror! Seriously though - its a five year old game - after you finalize this project could you carry on, but design it for people using an ssd or ramdrive? Perhaps not, but because cbp works so much better than bnw a little slowdown would be acceptable, I believe, if the additional material was all goodness.

Wishful thinking I suppose, but I no longer want to know about ciVI (civ6). Gazebo's version is better than it would ever be (at least until ex packs and mods come out!).

 

[vyyt]

Archonios, I am a very old person (over 30 ha!), so I have no experience with the Mobas, and frankly speaking, I do not understand most of what you are talking about here, but it seems to me that you are asking for a mod of Civ5 which would overhaul the gameplay completely - to the point that it would not be a Civ game anymore.

I do not think this is what CBP (= Community Balance Patch) is aiming for.

 

[Gazebo]

"Min City Range defaults to 3 if not using a standard maptype - is 3 for duel-standard, 4 for large/huge. CS values a little different (2 on duel/tiny, 3 on small and above)."

Am I to understand correctly that this has been implemented into the Community Patch?

If so, I really don't think this is in keeping with the general 'don't touch gameplay' ideal and would suggest that it be moved to the CBP. I know that most people play with the CBP anyway, but there are a few of us who don't.

On another note, is there any real need for 'Warscore' to be visible in the CP either? I understand that under the hood it's an improvement on the AI, but making it visible doesn't seem to fit with simply improving the unmodded experience.

The minimum distance issue is a big enough problem on large and huge maps that it warrants inclusion in the CP. The AI benefits greatly from it.

Warscore is the peace system in the CP as well- it isn't a gameplay change so much as it is an AI improvement. The AI's peace metric was obscure and terrible - now it is transparent and logical. That's a QOL change and an AI improvement (both of which fall under the CP's goals).
G

 

[PurpleMentat]

What qualifies as a non-standard map? Community / mod map scripts?

 

[Funak]

What qualifies as a non-standard map? Community / mod map scripts?

Might also be scrambled continents/nations.

 

[Archonios]

Archonios, I am a very old person (over 30 ha!), so I have no experience with the Mobas, and frankly speaking, I do not understand most of what you are talking about here, but it seems to me that you are asking for a mod of Civ5 which would overhaul the gameplay completely - to the point that it would not be a Civ game anymore.

I do not think this is what CBP (= Community Balance Patch) is aiming for.

If i can remember correctly the first purpose of this mod was to make AI better. Then move to fix other things inside the game. It made the AI better for sure but then Leaders weren't unique(?) enough. Faith wasnt up to par with the new add ons as more things were changed. Then technologies seemed it was lacking and streamline the process. Happiness after changed completely. Tourism at the end. The are ways added to advance but never touched or taken to the extreme. Did the changes make diffrence? I know what i suggested is a huge overhaul but i dont think gameplay will be that diffrent. I am sure that it aint possible now anyway. The improvements are very good.
I like chaos, building an empire and then all gone. See that huge empire? i made it and it got destroyed by the enemy. now i want revenge so i can destroy them as well. Big changes all around with the ability to come back. Never be safe behind walls.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

because MOBA is essentially a dumbed down version of RTS,

As a MOBA fanatic, no. This is inaccurate. I play TBS, RTS, and MOBAs and they are all completely different animals.

 

[Atlas627]

Stopped reading there.

Are you ever NOT a jerk? I've assumed for so long you don't realize how awful you are to everyone else, but by now I'm forced to conclude that you're just plain mean.

 

[Strigvir]

After the early 00's the RTS genre is almost the same. Nothing major.

The same can be said about MOBA too. All games come down to farming gold and roflstomping an enemy team afterwards. If it failed, blame the teammates.
The only thing LoL added to the formula is free2pay heroes. But technically civ5 follows it too, as the most scrub-wrecking civilizations are behind a paywall.

You see X unit? If you lose X unit you lose Y damage and some utility. You also should destroy the enemy X unit or force him to move to the Z location so you can kill the other soldiers easier. Ain't that the same formula in RTS too?

It's literally the same formula as RTS, except you control only one unit on the whole field. Because micro is too hard.

As a MOBA fanatic, no. This is inaccurate. I play TBS, RTS, and MOBAs and they are all completely different animals.

No wonder you defend this. I liked Dota back in the days exactly because it was a WC3 with less unit micro and more explosions. And I am pretty sure I wasn't alone at this.

 

[Funak]

Can we just all decide that Strigvir is wrong and just stop responding? This is getting offtopic and I would hate to have another modaction.

 

[Gazebo]

If i can remember correctly the first purpose of this mod was to make AI better. Then move to fix other things inside the game. It made the AI better for sure but then Leaders weren't unique(?) enough. Faith wasnt up to par with the new add ons as more things were changed. Then technologies seemed it was lacking and streamline the process. Happiness after changed completely. Tourism at the end. The are ways added to advance but never touched or taken to the extreme. Did the changes make diffrence? I know what i suggested is a huge overhaul but i dont think gameplay will be that diffrent. I am sure that it aint possible now anyway. The improvements are very good.
I like chaos, building an empire and then all gone. See that huge empire? i made it and it got destroyed by the enemy. now i want revenge so i can destroy them as well. Big changes all around with the ability to come back. Never be safe behind walls.

Nothing wrong with your ideas, but changes like that are a bit extensive for a mod moving towards final release. That's an entirely new game type.

 

[TheSchnitzel]

I noticed, that after the last patch, the AI seemed more passive than before. I like being a warmonger in the game, and with this mod this was really fun! The way all the Ais, even the weakest with like 1 city and 2 eras behind, declared war on me while also fighting each other was super amusing and brought a ton of action even in the lategame But wierdly after the latest patch, the AI has become extremely passive. If I tried to bribe some leader to go to war, they always refused, even if I offered ridicoulous amounts of resources.Once in a while they try to bribe me to go to war with somebody, but thats all. In my last game I was playing the Inca on a small oval map with 15 civs, and by turn 175 captured all the cities of 8 of them. My borders connected with the two AIs with the biggest armies (I was place 5 or so), I was denounced by all of them, sanctioned and the cassus belli was enacted. Still noone attacked me. Is there a way to change It back, or at least make the Ai less passive?

 

[Funak]

I noticed, that after the last patch, the AI seemed more passive than before. I like being a warmonger in the game, and with this mod this was really fun! The way all the Ais, even the weakest with like 1 city and 2 eras behind, declared war on me while also fighting each other was super amusing and brought a ton of action even in the lategame But wierdly after the latest patch, the AI has become extremely passive. If I tried to bribe some leader to go to war, they always refused, even if I offered ridicoulous amounts of resources.Once in a while they try to bribe me to go to war with somebody, but thats all. In my last game I was playing the Inca on a small oval map with 15 civs, and by turn 175 captured all the cities of 8 of them. My borders connected with the two AIs with the biggest armies (I was place 5 or so), I was denounced by all of them, sanctioned and the cassus belli was enacted. Still noone attacked me. Is thre a way to change It back, or at least make the Ai less passive?

I haven't noticed the AI being more passive at all, they still bullrush me before turn 100 every time.

 

[Strigvir]

I noticed, that after the last patch, the AI seemed more passive than before. I like being a warmonger in the game, and with this mod this was really fun! The way all the Ais, even the weakest with like 1 city and 2 eras behind, declared war on me while also fighting each other was super amusing and brought a ton of action even in the lategame But wierdly after the latest patch, the AI has become extremely passive. If I tried to bribe some leader to go to war, they always refused, even if I offered ridicoulous amounts of resources.Once in a while they try to bribe me to go to war with somebody, but thats all. In my last game I was playing the Inca on a small oval map with 15 civs, and by turn 175 captured all the cities of 8 of them. My borders connected with the two AIs with the biggest armies (I was place 5 or so), I was denounced by all of them, sanctioned and the cassus belli was enacted. Still noone attacked me. Is there a way to change It back, or at least make the Ai less passive?

You didn't say which mods you were using alongside CBP. Probably you have a ton of AI-related mods, which overwrite CBP changes.

 

[Gazebo]

I noticed, that after the last patch, the AI seemed more passive than before. I like being a warmonger in the game, and with this mod this was really fun! The way all the Ais, even the weakest with like 1 city and 2 eras behind, declared war on me while also fighting each other was super amusing and brought a ton of action even in the lategame But wierdly after the latest patch, the AI has become extremely passive. If I tried to bribe some leader to go to war, they always refused, even if I offered ridicoulous amounts of resources.Once in a while they try to bribe me to go to war with somebody, but thats all. In my last game I was playing the Inca on a small oval map with 15 civs, and by turn 175 captured all the cities of 8 of them. My borders connected with the two AIs with the biggest armies (I was place 5 or so), I was denounced by all of them, sanctioned and the cassus belli was enacted. Still noone attacked me. Is there a way to change It back, or at least make the Ai less passive?

The AI is not 100% geared towards war every game.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

No wonder you defend this. I liked Dota back in the days exactly because it was a WC3 with less unit micro and more explosions. And I am pretty sure I wasn't alone at this.

"All games are the same because you play them." --Strigvir, 2015.

 

[Enginseer]

Please be courteous to your fellow forum-users. Abusive language or insults will not be tolerated. Just because someone doesn't like your idea, or the designers did not implement your idea, does not justify bad behavior. Just play nice! We all want CiV to be a better game.

 

[Atlas627]

I just played a game on the newest patch where all of the AIs kept declaring war on me and each other, probably bribed. It was madness. Nobody hated anyone else because they were ALL crazy. Didn't notice any backstabs though. And I got some declarations of friendship! Though the turn after they ended I was usually attacked...

Then the next game nobody declared war ever. I think the variety is a great thing.

 

[Zarrk]

I just played a game on the newest patch where all of the AIs kept declaring war on me and each other, probably bribed. It was madness. Nobody hated anyone else because they were ALL crazy.

I witnessed EPIC MADNESS in late September when Nabuchodonosor got DOW by Attila and in the same turn he got full "THIS IS BABYLON" and begin WW1 with the remaining 19 civs totally ignoring myself and my vassal. 12 turns later he lost one city from his five and it was world peace for at least 80 turns.