New Wonder Revisions

[WhiteEyes]

After finally beat the first 2 Arab UHV with The Spiral Minaret and House of Wisdom built in my cities, I think the HoW's hammer cost arent so bad, but "double production speed with Library" would be a cool feature, if it's possible.
But since the tech UHV is easily beatable without House of Wisdom, I doubt the wonder will be much of help even with triple bulbing ability, especially since you need to build lots of armies.
Maybe change it to "1 free tech for every GP discoveries"?

The Krak des Chevalier deserves attention here, both the current effect and the building requirements are too Spanish-sided. My suggestion is either removing the Catholic state religion from the requirements so HRE and Muslim civs could build it or make it only require Catholic so France can also make it.

 

[ShinobiHus92]

I would love if the Roman Pantheon would be included in the game. We need more Roman style worldwonders, Hadrian's Wall would also be an awesome addition if those mods exist of course..

Spoiler Pantheon Rome :

 

[Leoreth]

That's not what this thread is about.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

It was an image of the tower of Pisa

Meanwhile I'm still holding out for Broadway. :/

 

[brett0007]

Meanwhile I'm still holding out for Broadway. :/

*weeps in thorium*

 

[MechatronicJazz]

*weeps in thorium*

You should get that looked at.

Atomium: When endgame techs cost literally thousands of beakers, the extra few beakers this wonder will give you is simply microscopic in comparison. Perhaps it could give a large reduction in the chance of nuclear meltdowns with power plants or something like that, even in addition to it's current effect?

I like the smaller meltdown chance idea, but how often do meltdowns happen as is? How much of a benefit would it be?

Not sure if OP, but maybe the Escorial can also grant a free Administrative Center to the first colony on each continent in the New World. So that's like 2 for the whole map. Reflects the viceroyalty colonial administration, and can significantly help with maintenance costs as well.

Escorial could make it so colonies start with your state religion or perhaps a monastery as well.

I am hesitant to do this because the advantage of this would scale better long term than short term.

I like the idea of an extra free building for colonies, but if it is supposed to be more of an immediate benefit than a long term one then it should be a building that will help the city quickly. Something that you would build eventually for the long term benefit anyway, but that you often forego early on because the production isn't there yet. Alternatively, the idea for reduced maintenance in colonies is also good. Instead of being for a set number of turns, it could be until the wonder obsoletes, in which case the wonder can obsolete around the time that the Spanish and Portuguese empires began declining. It could work well if it causes economic instability not long before their colonies are supposed to break free.

 

[Temujin8k]

I like the idea of an extra free building for colonies, but if it is supposed to be more of an immediate benefit than a long term one then it should be a building that will help the city quickly. Something that you would build eventually for the long term benefit anyway, but that you often forego early on because the production isn't there yet. Alternatively, the idea for reduced maintenance in colonies is also good. Instead of being for a set number of turns, it could be until the wonder obsoletes, in which case the wonder can obsolete around the time that the Spanish and Portuguese empires began declining. It could work well if it causes economic instability not long before their colonies are supposed to break free.

I also thought of reduced colony maintenance for the duration of the wonder, though I'm afraid it could conflict with the English UP as well. England managing to grab El Escorial will strengthen their UP, making them more OP. While it may just be a relatively short game timeframe, it will still help a lot in catapulting England economically and technologically further.

 

[Force44]

House of wisdom and El Escorial

My two cents:

House of wisdom. Allow more control over the techs that are bulbed.

my suggestion: In addition to its current benefit (double ajmount of bulbs + three in stead of two techs able to bulb) (1)When bulbing for tech(s), let all great people doulble as great prophets and (2) let all great prophets double as all other great people. (3) Allow for great people to fill in the gaps in their bulbing options. (4) Allow for multiple great people to research/bulb together.
Additional/different suggestion: (5) Allow for allocation of superfluous bulbs
In the form of bulbs or money or perhaps even production.

El escorial. reward expansion in the short term.
my suggestion: Setteling a new colony increases the pop in either your capitol or city with the trading company by 1.

 

[Leoreth]

How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

 

[FraggleJock]

El Escorial
Mercenary combat victory grants a new mercenary in the attackers square (with smaller conquerer stacks to start with) and mercenaries have 1 less upkeep.

 

[Cacaso]

How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

I liked this idea. But if in the game it is too strong, maybe change to Razing a city grants you part of the great people points in that city.

Because if a civ like mogolia starts getting a lot of great general settled from other citys and then adding them all in a single city will be very strong, If it's just the GPP maybe it helps the mongolian CIV (or the CIV that builds it) to get another maybe 3 or 4 GP only.

Then if the razed city has a Great general settled in the city, maybe add some points to your own great general points bar.

 

[JHLee]

I liked this idea. But if in the game it is too strong, maybe change to Razing a city grants you part of the great people points in that city.

I agree, the AI loves to settle multiple Great Generals in one city.

 

[Matara]

I suggest Escorial granting you an amount of money per 10 turn. It refers to Spanish treasure fleets, transporting gold and silver from the new world.

 

[NerfCothons]

How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

Silver Tree Foundation - Feels both OP and difficult to manage at the same time. I'd want to give it a shot at least. Blow up the middle east and bring all those great people back to your core? Sounds fun.

El Escorial - Agreed, the challenge is to create a buff that is meaningful but short lived. You could make it powerful but have a quick obsolete tech. Free worker for each settled or conquered colony and +X for each improved resource on a continent other than your capital?

Burj Khalifa - What makes it so difficult is that to build and use historically you have to build this incredibly expensive wonder in a place with low production. The intersection with oil feels like the essence of the wonder while trade is secondary. Make it require desert, make it a relatively cheap wonder, and give it +1 +3 and +3 on each well and rig?

Gardens by the Bay - What about disconnecting or minimizing the amount of unhealthiness that comes from population size for that city only? I know you don't want to connect playing dirty to these kinds of wonders, but we're just disconnecting it from population not playing dirty. Even if it can be used to facilitate dirty play, that is true of any bonus health. Making it a singular city effect feels appropriate for Singapore.

 

[happysheep]

How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

No I personally think the current Silver Tree Fountain (STF) effect is pretty ok. I play as China alot and usually it is quite worth it to switch back to Shendao for like 20 or so turns and build inquisitors to remove Confucianism and whatever other religion in Xian to build the STF in Xi'an. Over the course of the game up to Geography you can usually get 3 or so GGs from terracotta army, and conquering Korea and India and Japan, which is totally worth the 20 anarchy turns. Honestly, I feel like the STF is the most underrated wonder ever, as proven from the fact that literally nobody even built it for a long time as shown by the python error given earlier by its effects. The new proposed effect is also extremely antitethical because it basically encourages the razing of good cities and why would anyone ever want to do that. even getting some good GPP out of it doesnt seem to be worth it to me. One must not forget that often, the AI usually settles their GP in their best cities which probably contains at least some great wonders, not to mention high population and many buildings. IMO considering how Mongolia usually barely has any production to spare for a wonder and gets religion spread before it can build it you should just remove the pagan religion requirement, lower the production a bit and add the additional effect of free lancer in every core city as suggested earlier to make it actually worth it to build

 

[Dominus the Mentat]

It would be nice to review the Krak of the Chevaliers conditions and utility too. The wonder was basically designed to be built by the player and even with this I don't seem much opportunity to build it, since Catholicism doesn’t spread in the Levant or Egypt with much frequence and catholic european civilizations are not triggered to launch cruzades in the holy land.

Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

Interesting, since the mongols generate great people at a very fast rate before the wonder can be built. I think the great problem of the wonder is that requires much to be built, taking in consideration it wil be built in Mongolia, which is a poor place in even with its tiles improved and not much cities have settled people, although I have saw cases that an city have 3 great military advisors. So, depends much of how the AI would behave in the games.

I also would like to suggest to change Salsal Buddha requirement of Buddhism as state religion to just having Buddhism in the city. I think the camel requirement is selective enough and the problem is that Buddhism is hard to spread naturally in regions which have considerable amount of like Khwarazm, Hindu Kush and Iran.

 

[Hickman888]

It would be nice to review the Krak of the Chevaliers conditions and utility too. The wonder was basically designed to be built by the player and even with this I don't seem much opportunity to build it, since Catholicism doesn’t spread in the Levant or Egypt with much frequence and catholic european civilizations are not triggered to launch cruzades in the holy land.

The Krak of the Chevaliers is a very useful wonder to build as the Spanish, as it puts their unique castle, which reduces maintenance, in all of their cities. I agree that it's too much of a hassle to build the wonder as any other civilization, though.

 

[Derdan]

Why not have El Escorial give the city +3 per Silver and Gold resource consumed? It would synergize well with Spain's UHV requiring 10 of those resources.

 

[happysheep]

How about this for Silver Tree Fountain instead: Razing a city grants you its settled great people.

No I personally think the current Silver Tree Fountain (STF) effect is pretty ok. I play as China alot and usually it is quite worth it to switch back to Shendao for like 20 or so turns and build inquisitors to remove Confucianism and whatever other religion in Xian to build the STF in Xi'an. Over the course of the game up to Geography you can usually get 3 or so GGs from terracotta army, and conquering Korea and India and Japan, which is totally worth the 20 anarchy turns. Honestly, I feel like the STF is the most underrated wonder ever, as proven from the fact that literally nobody even built it for a long time as shown by the python error given earlier by its effects. The new proposed effect is also extremely antitethical because it basically encourages the razing of good cities and why would anyone ever want to do that. even getting some good GPP out of it doesnt seem to be worth it to me. One must not forget that often, the AI usually settles their GP in their best cities which probably contains at least some great wonders, not to mention high population and many buildings. IMO considering how Mongolia usually barely has any production to spare for a wonder and gets religion spread before it can build it you should just remove the pagan religion requirement, lower the production a bit and add the additional effect of free lancer in every core city as suggested earlier to make it actually worth it to build

So... Leoreth are you going along with the changes to the Silver Tree Fountain?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know yet. It will take some time until I have the opportunity to make a decision.