News: BOTM 10 Pre-game Discussion

[Lexad]

@Forts

So strange that you don't need Sailing...

Well, you don't need then for the river- and coast-connected resources in your culture on your landmass either. Moreover, if your cultural borders contain the span of a river between two cities, you'll have trade and resources before Sailing. So why not.

 

[AlanH]

OK thanks. Reading it, I think I'd see it as an unfortunate exploit but it's not something it would be realistic to ban in the competition. It's a way of micromanaging your forest chops and whips that lets you convert hammers into cash at a very favourable rate. You can do that anyway by building and not completing double-production-speed wonders (although with less predictability for when you'll actually get the cash). By using the exploit you get a lot of cash, but it does cost you valuable forests and/or the having to use a whip on your population, plus a certain amount of tedious micromanagement. I don't particularly like the exploit, but if people want to use it they are free to do so.

I seem to recall that was the conclusion we reached for the SGOTM where it was used. Unbalanced, for sure, but not wildly so; and probably not the worst that the game has to offer.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I've made a little study on forts. You do not even need Sailing

How do you recommend getting your fort builder over there? Galleons?

 

[Yamps]

(regarding Sailing)

Well, you don't need then for the river- and coast-connected resources in your culture on your landmass either. Moreover, if your cultural borders contain the span of a river between two cities, you'll have trade and resources before Sailing. So why not.

Ah, the point is that river/coast route lays within cultural borders. Otherwise Sailing would be necessary to connect resources. I did some testings, hope I've got it right!

X-post...

@LC

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I love that so many people are putting so much careful thought into the question of how to avoid founding a city by the stone.

If you all dislike founding cities so much, I can always edit the starting saves to give your settler to the nearest AI. I'm sure that leader will appreciate it and will find something useful for the settler to do...

 

[Mundungu]

OMG, dont know how long I will last for that one....

Why could not the stone be on the same landmass ? I will send the scout to check if there is some land connection, hoping it wont get killed too early ..

 

[Lexad]

How do you recommend getting your fort builder over there? Galleons?

It could've been built by someone else The point was tech requirement test. Und jah, Astro needs Calendar...

 

[kcd_swede]

@Forts

So strange that you don't need Sailing...

@Karmina

Thanks for the saves! I just hope I don't get an early DoW again...

Don't need sailing? If you can get a fort on that stone without access to sailing, I'll be truly amazed. (We can't use worldbuilder in the BOTM, can we?)

 

[kcd_swede]

OMG, dont know how long I will last for that one....

Why could not the stone be on the same landmass ? I will send the scout to check if there is some land connection, hoping it wont get killed too early ..

I don't see there is much else you can do with that scout. My first impresion is that DS is watching too much "Survivor" and likes seeing units stranded on some small island. After further reflection, I think there could be method to this madness... perhaps the Settler is the one playing "Survivor" and the other landmass is the key to meeting the AI. He did seem rather miffed about the early DOW he suffered in the Deity GOTM.

Well, as you say... the scout could be like 20 land moves away on the same landmass (in which case its best to stop thinking about stone for the time being, and just hope that they live long enough for a tearful reuinion.).

 

[LowtherCastle]

It could've been built by someone else The point was tech requirement test.

Yeah, I know. I was just ribbing you. That's why I didn't mention needing math for forts. Or has that been changed?

 

[Gosha190]

We can't use worldbuilder in the BOTM, can we?

Ask DS about new accessible kind of starting save: WB ON! It'll be amasing competition!

 

[Gosha190]

Yeah, I know. I was just ribbing you. That's why I didn't mention needing math for forts. Or has that been changed?

You need Math to build a fort - you are right!

 

[jesusin]

I've made a little study on forts. You do not even need Sailing (or even Fishing), but you do need Masonry. If the resource on a separate landmass is in your culture, has fort and is connected by road or river to the shore fort, it is available to you.

Note: the road is a must, even if it is a 1-fort system, like the stone on the screenshot.

Thank you!

If on the stone there's a quarry instead of a fort, it isn't connected, is it?

 

[Gosha190]

Thank you!
If on the stone there's a quarry instead of a fort, it isn't connected, is it?

as for me, this point looks logical . Fort is a substitution for a city only. So you must have city or fort (+road on the same tile) on a coast to get trade connection with another landmass.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Do chops also get the 50% imperialistic bonus on settlers?

 

[karmina]

Do chops also get the 50% imperialistic bonus on settlers?

Sure, chops produce a constant amount of base hammers.
On a related note, I seem to recall that Great Engineers do not get production boni, as you can't completely rush Versailles.

 

[Lexad]

Do chops also get the 50% imperialistic bonus on settlers?

Yes, and pop-rush too.

Sure, chops produce a constant amount of base hammers.
On a related note, I seem to recall that Great Engineers do not get production boni, as you can't completely rush Versailles.

Correct. Also cash-rushing gets no boni.

 

[lroumen]

My thoughts on this start:

- Tectonics is closely related to big_and_small I think. Importantly, there's realistic mountain ranges, so no weird peaks without any nearby hills for instance. It's a fun map to play and if you're quick on the boat, you may get a nice tech from a goody hut.
- No fishing = no commerce for an early religion, so there's little option for an early home-made religion brewn diplomatic victory or an early shrine to fuel expansion other than waiting for a neighbour to pop a great prophet. I hope that someone like Ghandi is near.
- 3 clams and 1 cows is some nice food and 4+ hills south brings a decent hammer start. A little bit of river as well, hence little problems with health and it may improve a few hammers with a levee. To me it seems like quite a decent capital. No reason not to settle in place.
- A city on the stone seems like a good start, but it depends on what the scout spies ahead. It's still a good idea to place it there to avoid espionage though as it connects to the sea 1NE. It probably takes slightly too many sea tiles and I don't really like that in a city as you cannot improve them.
- Stone brings the interesting option to consider walls followed by castles, since both Castles and the Landesknecht come with Engineering, correct? Seems like a good strategy until you get to Economics.
- Stone for wonders? Chichen Itza + Walls + Castles + Protective = enough protection?


I think I would start something like this, but I didn't do any calculations.
Fishing, Archery, Animal Husbandry, Mining, Sailing, Masonry?
1 warrior (scout mainland), 1 workboat, 1 archer, 1 workboat (growth to 3-4?), 1 worker (cows, mines), 2 archers, 1 settler (mainland), 1 archer, 1 galley, 1 settler (scouted land).....


ideas? thoughts?

 

[karmina]

Fishing, Archery, Animal Husbandry, Mining, Sailing, Masonry?
1 warrior (scout mainland), 1 workboat, 1 archer, 1 workboat (growth to 3-4?), 1 worker (cows, mines), 2 archers, 1 settler (mainland), 1 archer, 1 galley, 1 settler (scouted land).....

ideas? thoughts?

You'll survive the ancient era, but most certainly get no chance on SH, GW, Pyramids, Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens.

Barbs are tough (and appear on turn 10), the starting location just screams SE, so I definitely want to get both GW and Pyramids.

Of course, if you plan an axe rush and/or golden wall abuse, any wonder might be counterproductive.

btw the river only supports 2 tiles, so building a levee there would be a not so bright idea. That is, if you survive up to steam power

 

[humbe]

Haven't played enough Civ4 to be comfortable with deity yet. Usually playing monarch. But might try it out to see if I can improve my early game.

Settling in place looks good. Lots of food. Guess I should try to figure out how to take good advantage of whipping.

What's the big deal about getting stone to first city instead of founding a city on the other landmass? Settling in place, I can already see 7 grassland tiles up there that won't overlap with capitol. It makes no difference which city in your empire have stone, does it?

I dislike wonder strategies. Especially on hard difficulties where there's a very large chance of me not being able to finish them in time so I just get gold instead of needed production. With no chance of replaying I think I'll just stay away from world wonders.

I'm guessing one of the two land masses is fairly small without other players on them, in which case, it sounds like a good location to build some commerce cities not plagued by barbarians..