News: SGOTM 11 - Results and Congratulations

[Indiansmoke]

Thanks to the organizers for comming up with such a great scenario and congratulations to the winning teams!

Looking forward to the next one...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Just wondering, how are T'dr and Maple Sporks ranked behind Phoenix in the results page?

Apparently, Eldine is biased against Cultural Victories... having ranked all Diplo Victories ahead of them, regardless of finishing dates.

Past SGOTMs that had multiple Victory Types being eligible for victory were correctly interspersed amongst each other.

It can't be because those two teams that you mentioned failed to meet Eldine's conditions, as all teams that finished met the game's required conditions.


Thanks to the Admins for a fun-filled and well-run game! Thanks to the players for participating and for sharing so many of your strategies with the community!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

If anyone is interested, here’s the list of victims for the war declarations:

That info was useful and appreciated.


Do you have any stats on where teams decided to settle?

For example, I wonder if anyone settled 1S, in what, in hindsight, appears to have been a potentially great location. I considered raising the idea of going there myself, mostly because it kept all visible Resources, kept a mineable Plains Hills River square open, and gave us the GCopper square (which I actually suspected contained a Horse Resource, given all of the Forests surrounding the suspiciously Forest-less square) while giving us the chance to pick up additional Resources in the hidden sqares.

Using hindsight knowledge of where the Resources ended up, I regret not having raised the idea. At the time, though, I was biased towards settling in place in our debate between "in place" and "on the Plains Hills square," so I didn't want to suggest yet another location to my teammates and thus "further split the vote."

 

[Grifftavian]

DS, Erkon & AlanH: 1 x 10⁶ Thanks for a very interesting and enjoyable Succession Game.

Congratulations to the winning teams! And I hope everyone enjoyed playing as much as I did!

Indeed, much to Eldine’s delight, some teams even exceeded the conditions: You were required to confine your perverted warlike instincts by declaring war on no more than two AIs, but One Short Straw, Gypsy Kings and Unusual Suspects didn’t declare war on anyone. Eldine is truly proud of you.

I think the rest of the Gypsy Kings and myself are relieved that Eldine wasn't upset that we built 21 Privateers, which provided two Great Generals for our Welcoming Committee. Perhaps she overlooked our perverted warlike instinct because of the extra blockade .

 

[Gumbolt]

Pheonix Rising completed the game and got a wooden spoon.

Whilst I would not try to temper or anger Eridine I would point out both Saladin and Toku attacked our peaceful empire. We found it only fitting to protect the gifts we intended to give in tribute to her. Also to show the rest of the world war was not something we condoned.

Again Thanks to Erkon/DS and AlanH for running this game and I hope Eridine will be back (Very soon) to teach us more morals and show us the light.

I would like to thank all the member of PR who saw this game out. Was always going to be tough for a new team. I hope we can continue to build on what we have done here and come back for the next game stronger and wiser.

 

[Duckweed]

Thanks DS for a very well designed game!

Congratulations to all the winners!

rumour has it that fur is so rare that only one unique supply exists, and that is heavily guarded by the most vile barbarians.

What happened to the most vile barbarians? We only saw a few axemans and archers, did Eldine and/or Devil Satan changed mind?

 

[Cactus Pete]

SGOTMs are usually much closer than this. No doubt there is an education to be had from reading PD's and OSS's threads.

Thanks to the game creators and administrators for coming up with deceptively difficult victory conditions (at least for most fo us). Looking forward to the next one.

 

[Gumbolt]

Thanks DS for a very well designed game!

Congratulations to all the winners!



What happened to the most vile barbarians? We only saw a few axemans and archers, did Eldine and/or Devil Satan changed mind?

Perhaps they had poor table maners and treated the locals rough. Would of been nice to see some barb rifles.

 

[dingding]

Thanks very much to the designer and organizers for the game

And congra to all the teams participating!

What happened to the most vile barbarians? We only saw a few axemans and archers, did Eldine and/or Devil Satan changed mind?

The word "rumour" speaks for itself

I really appreciate this notion which, along with the 2-Dow limitation, obliges every team to think about the risk that their actions would bring, .

If we had known that there were only a bunch of archers/axemen there, our team would probably have a different strategy - launched GA much earlier for example.

Hope for more rumour next time

 

[srad]

Congratulations to the winners!

Did a lot of reading in PD's and OSS's threads. Very educational!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Glad you all enjoyed the game. It was fun devising it to.

To answer various points raised:

It looks like Phoenix Rising are misplaced in the results list, they should be below Maple Sporks since it's ordered by date. I'll get onto Alan to fix it.

Getting a starting area that looks fair to everyone while keeping it random and unpredictable is quite a tricky balance. I had thought it was fair-ish because anyone who moved to the plains hill would pick up the silver, but in the process would lose an extremely good grassland copper square. Looks with hindsight like that might have been a misjudgment.

The reasoning behind allowing diplo and cultural was that I thought that an average player could probably hope for similar-ish dates for either of those. Very good players would be able to get a diplo win a lot earlier, but for more typical players, which victory they choose wouldn't make a lot of difference to the likely date, which would leave most teams with a genuine choice. Besides, going for diplo carries a higher risk of the victory going wrong (because you can't get AIs to vote for you - especially with the limit on war declarations preventing a domination-style diplo win). It looks to me like the results show that assumption was a bit out but not too far out - most of the diplo victories were not too many turns earlier than the cultural victories, and the very slowest finish was a diplo one.

Religious victories were specifically disallowed because they could be achieved so much faster that there would be effectively no choice in victory condition - if we'd allowed them, every team would feel obliged to go religious.

 

[da_Vinci]

Getting a starting area that looks fair to everyone while keeping it random and unpredictable is quite a tricky balance. I had thought it was fair-ish because anyone who moved to the plains hill would pick up the silver, but in the process would lose an extremely good grassland copper square. Looks with hindsight like that might have been a misjudgment.

Well, if we think that initial settling choice adds too much element of luck (and the mapmakers are sweating out neutralizing it), we could always have the game start with the first city already settled ...

Thanks to the staff for a very interesting game!

dV

 

[dingding]

Getting a starting area that looks fair to everyone while keeping it random and unpredictable is quite a tricky balance. I had thought it was fair-ish because anyone who moved to the plains hill would pick up the silver, but in the process would lose an extremely good grassland copper square. Looks with hindsight like that might have been a misjudgment.

Actually I tent to consider settling on PH is not that advantageous as it seems. For one very simple reason: in this condition the second city can naturally grab the best place (cow+marble spot) to build GLH, hence accelerating the expansion.

Take PD's game as example, we settled the cap on PH and the 2nd city next to the copper. It's not before the third city that we had a good spot for GLH. If settled in place, with a more powerful capital and 2nd city, we would have been, to some extent, compensated for the loss of a few turns of silver by more efficient expansion and wonder-spamming.

(I said a few turns of silver, because the silver can be grabbed by the 4th or 5th city next to the deer.)

However, a Silver mine still seems a bit too powerful for this mostly beaker-race game. If I were you, I would give more advantages to the team settling in place by:

- putting a TUNDRA silver hill instead (+4H <=> -2F+2H+6C; or 6H <=> 6C).
- putting a fur hill instead, then change the VC to getting access to Dye, Ivory, Silk and Incense, put incense in fur's place. (+6H <=> +5C)

 

[AlanH]

I looked into, and fixed the bug that placed Phoenix Rising out of sequence in the final results. When I did so, I found a more serious error on my part, in that the Apostrophe team were actually the lowest scoring finishers, not Maple Sporks, by a narrow margin of a few hundred points

So the second set of Wooden Spoons have moved to their rightful owners.

I can only offer my most humble apologies to all concerned. I'll edit the first post to correct the error there as well.

 

[AlanH]

Just wondering, how are T'dr and Maple Sporks ranked behind Phoenix in the results page?

A slip of the coding pencil ... More seriously, and possibly as a side effect of the peculiar order, I picked the wrong lowest scorer Now fixed.

 

[lymond]

Thanks staff for a fun game. Really made us think hard about our approach. Learn a lot too.

Congrats to the PDs

Looking forward to the next one soon.

 

[Mad Professor]

Heh - just as well these weren't election results of some countries that you were announcing to change them like that. In some parts of the world you would have just started a war... They should have a special event like that in CIV when you're under democracy - disputed elections results causing city riots and destroyed buildings...

Thanks for the big effort from the staff. Game much appreciated. looking forward to the next one!

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Congratulations to one and all

 

[Gumbolt]

and the very slowest finish was a diplo one.

If you look at the huge detour Phoenix Rising took from the direct path to Mass media and the fact we accidentally burned our GE on a golden age just before we built the UN. I think this hardly says much for the culture route. Then again we didn't settle on the plains hills at start.

 

[lymond]

If you look at the huge detour Phoenix Rising took from the direct path to Mass media and the fact we accidentally burned our GE on a golden age just before we built the UN. I think this hardly says much for the culture route. Then again we didn't settle on the plains hills at start.

Yeah, I can't believe that jacktard on our team accidentally ran a double golden age at the end. We should have booted him long ago.