News: SGOTM 18 Results and Congratulations

[kcd_swede]

Have the mapmakers ever considered mods to spice these up? Maybe drop it back a few levels(prince to monarch) and give the AI all of the traits. You could edit the XML values so the AI don't play like themselves also (a mansa/shaka hybrid?).

On top of an evil map and sidequests, that could spice things up a bit. Dropping the level may encourage new players. Immortal probably scares off some people.

We used a special Mod for the game at least once before, but it involved only a very minor change to account for the scenario (I think it forced the fallout to stay until cleaned rather than randomly start disappearing)... or some such minor change.

We try to cater to the philosophy of "unaltered gameplay" as much as possible, while exploring variety of settings and man-made obstacles to overcome. Besides, staff here are mapmakers primarily, not modders.

Anyhow, I think "Unrestricted Leaders" with "Random Personalities" probably comes close to your suggestion, without needing a MOD. Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[kcd_swede]

Capturing wonders are no fun.

Why don't we play a always war or peace game? That would change things some.

...or how about "Permanent War and Peace", that is to say, I get to decide who you are always at war with and who you can never start war with.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

We used a special Mod for the game at least once before, but it involved only a very minor change to account for the scenario (I think it forced the fallout to stay until cleaned rather than randomly start disappearing)... or some such minor change.

We try to cater to the philosophy of "unaltered gameplay" as much as possible, while exploring variety of settings and man-made obstacles to overcome. Besides, staff here are mapmakers primarily, not modders.

Anyhow, I think "Unrestricted Leaders" with "Random Personalities" probably comes close to your suggestion, without needing a MOD. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Unrestricted leaders with random personalities comes close, but the randomness is not attractive. Who wants a Shaka that acts like a Ghandi? Modding XML just requires a text editor and you can make the leader you want without the randomness. Duckweed's posts seems to indicate he left the competition because he's been there done that with unaltered gameplay. His idea was to spice it up with Diety play. I would not go down that route. Unaltered gameplay is vast but still limited. Most players have experienced most there is to offer.

Civ being one of the most modifiable games, you can really create some interesting scenarios, even with just editing XML. You could do more with python and SDK editing but requires some programming experience.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Speaking of modding, I like the idea of adding mystery techs to the tech chart. Or changing the cost of various items. For example, it would be hilarious to make the cost of The Oracle 1 hammer.

Then again, if certain things are modded, do we then have access to the modded XML file so a clever diver could figure out any changes? (I don't know the answer to that.)

 

[Ronnie1]

Count me in the LC camp if I am reading him right.

Use some different settings that we are not used.

Less "modding" the better imo.

Keep it simple!

Example only,

Advanced start in non ancient age with 1 target VC at X difficulty level on map of choice. You can always juice the starting area around an AI that seems deficient or alter the start around the human as necessary.

My final 2 cents.

 

[kcd_swede]

Unrestricted leaders with random personalities comes close, but the randomness is not attractive. Who wants a Shaka that acts like a Ghandi? Modding XML just requires a text editor and you can make the leader you want without the randomness. Duckweed's posts seems to indicate he left the competition because he's been there done that with unaltered gameplay. His idea was to spice it up with Diety play. I would not go down that route. Unaltered gameplay is vast but still limited. Most players have experienced most there is to offer.

Civ being one of the most modifiable games, you can really create some interesting scenarios, even with just editing XML. You could do more with python and SDK editing but requires some programming experience.

Well, yes but... you then need to ensure your mod is stable, and make it downloadable, and support all the people having difficulty getting it to work setting admin priveleges etc etc etc. In principle it is easy, but in practise it is a much more major undertaking. And then there will be the security aspects, requiring BUFFY features be built in and all that entails. Plus, we could mess up and make something really glitchy. It would require greater resources than we usually have to make the games, and would delay the start a lot. Note, the time we did have the special mod, we also had a mapmaker who was an experienced xml guy. That's not me. I think we can make a fun game without going to those extremes... but if I got stuck on an idea that required modding it is conceivable that I would go the extra distance. I'm not there yet.

Edit: are you trying to volunteer for some xml/staff duties?

 

[kossin]

There are many things that can be tried, restrictions put, etc. but not everyone will be pleased by it.

Some only want to play for fun, others want to cut every corner to optimize the game as much as possible.

Balancing is very important; this has been problematic for a few games as I see it.
Space will always be slowest except for time victory.
UN always faster than culture.
Military VCs faster even.
Espionage games fall somewhere between military and UN. It didn't get great reception this time around so maybe best to avoid it...

Good luck!

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Well, yes but... you then need to ensure your mod is stable, and make it downloadable, and support all the people having difficulty getting it to work setting admin priveleges etc etc etc. In principle it is easy, but in practise it is a much more major undertaking. And then there will be the security aspects, requiring BUFFY features be built in and all that entails. Plus, we could mess up and make something really glitchy. It would require greater resources than we usually have to make the games, and would delay the start a lot. Note, the time we did have the special mod, we also had a mapmaker who was an experienced xml guy. That's not me. I think we can make a fun game without going to those extremes... but if I got stuck on an idea that required modding it is conceivable that I would go the extra distance. I'm not there yet.

Edit: are you trying to volunteer for some xml/staff duties?

Time is a major factor. You should be designing the next game at the start of the current game. Especially if using a mod.

I would not mind helping out, however I am not claiming to be experienced at XML editing. I've dabbled some. Python skills and C++ skills are non existent.

 

[Manco Capac]

Edit: are you trying to volunteer for some xml/staff duties?

I'm feeling interested from my side...for the modicum of having the shiny label Kossin and Duckweed have up their usernames.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The Espionage assisted Cultural Victory is the only player created victory condition that comes free with BtS. No modification of the game is needed to play this brand new victory condition. Not sure what kossin doesn't like about it; he even had an evolutionary hand in creating it. Its history goes back about 5-6 years when it was first demonstrated. Only recently was it shown by Kaitzilla to be quicker than a traditional Cultural Victory when expertly balancing all its requirements and minimimizing research required.

I'd be happy to play Espionage assisted Cultural Victory in future SGOTMs. However, some SGOTM players may be share my enthusiasm for this victory condition, so I'm fine with whatever ever the map makers decide to do for future SGOTMs.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Folket]

The Espionage assisted Cultural Victory is the only player created victory condition that comes free with BtS. No modification of the game is needed to play this brand new victory condition. Not sure what kossin doesn't like about it; he even had an evolutionary hand in creating it. Its history goes back about 5-6 years when it was first demonstrated. Only recently was it shown by Kaitzilla to be quicker than a traditional Cultural Victory when expertly balancing all its requirements and minimimizing research required.

I'd be happy to play Espionage assisted Cultural Victory in future SGOTMs. However, some SGOTM players may be share my enthusiasm for this victory condition, so I'm fine with whatever ever the map makers decide to do for future SGOTMs.

Sun Tzu Wu

The AP assisted diplomatic victory is also player created. In BTS it is just diplomatic victory.

 

[kossin]

It didn't get great reception this time around so maybe best to avoid it...

Wow... So now we are being essentially FORCED to use an obviously gamey exploit in order to even be competitive. I guess this competition really has degenerated into who can exploit the code better, a opposed to who can play civ... I will have to think for a while to see if I am interested in that....

@STW
This is the kind of reception I am referring to. Ask clarifications if whatever said is not clear; that could avoid many pointless arguments

 

[AlanH]

The SGOTM 19 sign-up and discussion threads are open.