News: WOTM 07 Pre-Game Discussion

[MarkM]

I've tried quite a number of trial games now, each time using as close as I can get to the starting conditions we know of - world type and visible start location.

If you happened to have the "starting turn save" option checked in the HOF mod, would you mind sharing one that matched particularly well? thanks!

 

[Vynd]

Lots of interest in this game, looks like. I wish everyone luck. Immortal is decidedly above my "Maybe emperor on a good day" skill level so I for one will be happy with any win I can get, forget about medals.

Some folks have talked about how being Imperalistic means we get cheap Settlers and will let us land-grab quickly. I wish this were true, but as someone pointed out awhile back the bonus towards Settler construction only applies to hammers. Food that's being devoted to Settler construction counts as normal.

Given that a lot of what goes into building early Settlers is surplus food from special resources, I doubt that the Imperialistic bonus will speed up Settler construction by more than a few turns per Settler. Which is still nice but isn't enough to build a strategy around IMHO.

 

[Orion071]

Yes, the bonus is only to hammers, but it gives you a 50% bonus to hammers obtained by chopping or by whipping as well. In my tests I would start a Settler and then whip it the next turn for only 2 pop. I usually had enough overflow for an Immortal after that. With our food-heavy start, whipped Settlers can come out pretty fast.

 

[AgedOne]

If you happened to have the "starting turn save" option checked in the HOF mod, would you mind sharing one that matched particularly well? thanks!

@MarkM
I'm not sure how helpful this will be. I didn't have that option set. (I'm going to set it now. Could be useful in the future.)
All I have is the 4000BC autosave of the last attempt I made - which was (almost laughably) not so close to the real start.
I've attached a screenshot - after the scout moves to show some resources that convinced me to try the game - and the start save.
As you can see, there are some vital differences. Plains instead of grass. Coastal start instead of 'perhaps coastal'.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Here is a relatively nice, Ainwood inspired test map for the WOTM. I added a couple of resources to the map so it should be about equivalent to the Qin Immortal GOTM. I'll try to generate a more difficult start later.

 

[ungy]

Here is a relatively nice start similar to the WOTM. I added a couple of resources to the map so it should be about equivalent to the Qin Immortal GOTM. I'll try to generate a more difficult start later.

thanks--I also think there will likely be some extra resources around.

 

[Priah]

Yea I just went into the editor and made it so my starting location had two hills, wheat (not irrigated) and some cows. Also added horses nearby in another relatively nice location.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Here is a more challenging, Gyathaar inspired test game.

 

[AgedOne]

@RobertTheBruce
Thanks for the 2 'practice tracks'. Very interesting.
I've tried both a couple of times.
The difference is noticeable. On TestA I've founded religions, avoided bottom slot on the scores, and generally crashed around taking bites out of my neighbours with them Immortal boys.
On TestB I've not founded ay religions, have languished at the foot of the scores and haven't hit anyone due to a lack of hitting units.

A few small changes here and there, and it makes the difference between a walk in the park and a walk through the valley of death!

Hopefully the actual WOTM (which I will be starting this weekend) is pitched somewhere between the two extremes. Nearer 'A' than 'B' for me, tho .

 

[The Navy Seal]

I had fun playing this one even though I lost! I also have a question what do I have to do to submit my game?

 

[Sarek]

I had fun playing this one even though I lost! I also have a question what do I have to do to submit my game?

Top of this page - Civ IV
Click on Game of the Month
Upper right of that page click Submit a GOTM, then follow the directions

 

[Htadus]

Here is a more challenging, Gyathaar inspired test game.

Man this is an evil layout. Gyathaar will be inspired by this for next GOTM. (Hope not ). I played my usual no archary route and bearly survived the barbs. Phew. I need to change the way I play. Thanks for the eye opener.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Man this is an evil layout. Gyathaar will be inspired by this for next GOTM. (Hope not ). I played my usual no archary route and bearly survived the barbs. Phew. I need to change the way I play. Thanks for the eye opener.

Its probably unfair to imply Gyathaar would produce a map like this. He has produced a few maps which resulted in suboptimal city placement to grab military resources. I meant to add a copper in the desert after switching a nearby iron to aluminum. This map makes elephants really the first available military resource.

 

[cabert]

Its probably unfair to imply Gyathaar would produce a map like this. He has produced a few maps which resulted in suboptimal city placement to grab military resources. I meant to add a copper in the desert after switching a nearby iron to aluminum. This map makes elephants really the first available military resource.

doesn't seem fair
I hope test A is closer to the real game. I tried it up to 1 AD, and found it easy enough (= nearer to monarch/emperor difficulty than to any usual immortal start).
Enough test games for me. Thanks RobertTheBruce .

 

[MarkM]

@MarkM
I'm not sure how helpful this will be. I didn't have that option set. (I'm going to set it now. Could be useful in the future.)
All I have is the 4000BC autosave of the last attempt I made - which was (almost laughably) not so close to the real start.
I've attached a screenshot - after the scout moves to show some resources that convinced me to try the game - and the start save.
As you can see, there are some vital differences. Plains instead of grass. Coastal start instead of 'perhaps coastal'.

Thank you very so much AgedOne! Sorry my gratitude is belated but I wasn't able to get to play it until last night, didn't have much time to play last 10 days and the time I had I spent finishing GOTM16. Also thanks to RobertTheBruce, though I haven't yet looked at yours I will. It sounds "intriguing" based upon others' comments!

I've never gone beyond Monarch (well maybe emperor once a long time ago in vanilla, and I didn't fare well) & usually a builder -- I'm just starting to try to consciously move away from that tendency in last couple GOTMs. So this is going to be a stretch for me. I figured my actual game would be brief so might as well put some extra time in on the front end to get more out of dissecting my defeat When I played your map though I was surprised to find I wasn't immediately wiped out. While I definitely wasn't doing WELL (was in 2nd to last at ~500BC, with half the score of the leader), I had successfully attacked Mansa Musa & razed 3 of his cities + captured a 4th, leaving him with one. Given that my scout had encountered him a turn ~12 & he already had a skirmisher I was pleased I could even overcome the big early lead he had.

However I'm still on the road to nowhere in this game. At 500 BC I have a respectable army in quantity, but it soon will be lagging in quality, it's pretty much immortals, swordsmen, and a couple archers and axemen. My problem is that my maintenance is killing me, even at 0% tech research I still only generate a surplus of 1 gp per turn! I have 4 cities, capital + 3 others 5-8 squares away.. I don't see it as a mistake to have any individual one of these cities -- #2 and #3 were need to hook up critical warmaking resources of horses and iron respectively (I started the war with just immortals, but quickly found I lost at least one for each skirmisher defender, to soften it up, so I think the swordsmen I got from hooking up the iron really improved my military position, especially when given mansa started building spearmen just after that; his remaining city is built right on top of an iron deposit). I thought I was very selective in keeping captured cities -- as I mentioned I razed 3, and the last one is not only close to the capital & on the nicest site of all my cities (it will produce lots of commerce if i can ever get it going), but it is also the jewish holy city & my only city with religion currently. But yet I'm basically mired down -- can't build much else but early military units because of lagging tech, can't do more research because of maintenance, can't boost commerce much because I pursued military techs & haven't got pottery or writing yet, and finally can't get techs out of mansa in a peace deal (he clearly has them, he has built cottages & has ships sailing around i can't build, and since I have him down to 1 city & a healthy lead in score on him still, I think he'd buy me off with them) because I don't have alphabet yet.

Anyway, what am I asking? I think it comes down to this: is it possible to go TOO much a warmonger at Immortal level, is that my problem? Did I need to obtain research infrastructure advances (pottery, writing) earlier, work commerce squares earlier to accelerate getting those techs, and focus less on working production tiles? That's something I think I have been able to overcome in my warmongering attempts on lower difficulties (= lower maintenance), but has trapped me here. In particular having alpha not much beyond the start of your first major war seems like a good idea to get the most out of wars (getting good peace terms). I think I still need to find a balance here... I'm gonna try one of RobertTheBruce games next, maybe Thursday night, and I think I'll try to do those things, modified by whatever advice I might get here. Looking at the starting position for the WOTM in particular, it makes me think moving to the coast might be advisable not only for reasons discussed here but to boost early commerce/tech research, as well as the other advantages talked about already here. The starting position looks pretty light on early research possibilities, except for the lake. Maybe horses & iron will turn up in starting radius so I won't have to build those early extra cities though ...

I realize most readers are probably playing WOTM7 already, but any general advice is appreciated.