NGC:Comeback Game, Stalin

[Hackapell]

woah, woah woah! what just happened?

at 12:40 EST, you reported that you had popped AH and the wheel. you were 6 turns from BW and your worker was ready to roll. now you don't have animal husbandry, and no worker. What happened?

 

[hou jing]

I thought I'd post some moves I made to get your thoughts. Keep in mind, this doesn't serve as advice for Syrth, but more of a comparison that I can learn from. I'll try to put the screenshots and my notes inside the spoiler function:

My notes:

Spoiler :

1. I got only gold and one warrior group from the many huts I popped. Honestly, I don't know how you guys get all these techs from the huts!

Also, I managed to lose two scout units and one warrior unit while fogbusting.

2. Resources look to be a problem from what I can see. Copper is far to the north, and iron is right there for the taking for Alexander. There is an additional source of iron far to the NNW, but it's a ways from the two established cities, and Alexander is about to be able to have better access to that tile. Also, in my attached file, you see that he is also establishing a city by the copper I intended to get!

3. I wasted a couple of moves with my settler before settling St. Petersburg, but at least I now have horses which allowed for the chariots I'll need for protection from barbarians. However, I'm concerned about being to advance much in this game with the limited militaristic resources. No ivory, not much chance to gain access to copper or iron yet (and, I don't see how we can possibly fight for it as things stand).

Overall, I sense that I'm about to find myself cornered in. However, I managed to get a few things accomplished, so I thought I'd post some screenshots in addition to attaching the game file:

I'm interested to get your thoughts on what I should have done differently....

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I can't get upset over one sea tile. Is it worth losing a turn?

And, again, jungle.


Waldo

losing 1 turn isn't bad. The gems will make up for it. by moving 1N we would have gained 2 hills wich could be mined. And the jungle can be cut. The ocean tiles will stay pretty ussulles for the whole game.

@sryth
Farm the rice first, then gems, With so many gems its key to let moscow grow as quicly as possiple to its largest size to work all those gems and mines.
I'd go for AH first and then Mysticism. the research of mysticism should be finished when your ready for founding your second city.

 

[kniteowl]

I'd go for AH & Pottery before IW, I don't know how early the AI barbs come online on Noble level, but better play it safe defending your cities with Chariots.

Pottery is optional but with those Gem, you probly won't need Pottery, but it's good pratice to research Pottery before IW to work cottages for comemrce and research.

The AI on this level are generally slow at building wonders do don't worry too much about delaying Preisthood for key worker techs and military techs like IW because there's no point in building a wonder first and then you realize the barbs are come pillaging or an AI decides to rush you like Alex.

 

[Hackapell]

kindly requesting an update...

 

[mice]

I picked up this start and played on with my favorite variant ; no cottages, no specialists. Not optimal, just a bit interesting.

It's going well at 1200 AD.

Spoiler :

Alex dead, Hatty on the way out. Will go for domination probably. A lot of water in the map makes Astronomy and galleons a must.

Syrth , are you going to keep going?

 

[vale]

If you are farming first farm the sugar before the rice. Unirrigated rice only gives 4 food and the sugars will give you that plus the commerce bonus. Plus you protect them from potential jungle incursion which, while eventually clearable is obviously a short term pain.

I'm sorry you didn't move one north. Plains hills are not subpar tiles regardless of what some believe. In the early game, food/production is king and no matter how much food you have you can't constantly whip because of the unhappiness so good stagnation options are important.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Having an extra tree for chopping is often good in the early game though... or am I mistaken? I like to speed a worker or settler along with a nice chop.

 

[Sjaramei]

Farm the rice and then go for the gems I'd say. You'll want a plantation on the sugar eventually so I'd only farm it if you run out of improved tiles to work.

It looks like you wont get any fresh water to the rice anytime soon so:
Farming the rice = 4 food
Farming the sugar = 4 food 1 commerce.
Obvious which one is better
And you should aim to get the city to size 3 as soon as possible to work all gems. So farm at least one square and grow!

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Good tips, I'm learning. I seldom improve plantation tiles before calendar guess that makes me somewhat of a newb. What about the settling on a forest point though? Just seems you lose 0.5 health and a chop for no production gain. I'd rather settle on a plains hill.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

Having an extra tree for chopping is often good in the early game though... or am I mistaken? I like to speed a worker or settler along with a nice chop.

But those trees don't need to be in your borders.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

But those trees don't need to be in your borders.

True but you don't get as many hammers for chopping outside you big fat cross or even worse outside your cultural borders.

From memory I think it's 24 hammers (with maths, on normal) one tile outside the cities BFC, and -6 hammers every tile further than that.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

But overall production would have increased by settling on the forrest, by gaining 2 hills.
Sryth, are you still playing? when is the update?

 

[mice]

Hackaspell mentioned in the other Stalin thread that he was a voracious learner, and was disappointed that this thread didn't progress.

In the interest of learning I thought I'd post a few saves from this game that I did with no cottages and no specialists.

If you're learning to dominate at noble or prince it's a good exercise to do because it shows you how much commerce there is out there without cottages. Cottages are great of course but it's good to realize all the other sources of income.

With big hammers and food you can really push the AI around. New cities build gold until they can contribute more. Courts get whipped, a lot gets whipped.

Pillage gold is often needed to get to currency in order to build gold.

But with this start ,and Collosus, pillaging was almost not needed.
Later in the game pillaging can pay for your upgrades as you go.

Spoiler :

I keep most cities and just whip them and build gold.

Once you can do this, you just add a couple of cottage farms and a specialist farm to your econ at the right time and you are playing close to optimal for a domination win.

 

[Hackapell]

thanks for that, mice, but unfortunately, I have a mac and no warlords
I'm really sorry no one's updated this thread yet. I actually want to see the Noble Challenge game become a reality, because I feel that's the level most of the prople here are on, and not so much the really good players who beat deity without much effort. I also feel that most people don't spend a ton of time micromanaging and just want to play the game, not go through all the calculations needed to win at the highest levels. therefore, I think I will go ahead and set up a new challenge sometime this weekend, that is,if everyone is OK with vanilla.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Go for it, I found Noble level to be a tad too easy though (although I do like to check my cities every turn), won Prince a few times, getting beaten up badly at Monarch. I've only had the game 3 months or so, but I did like a bit of Advance Wars on the GBA so that got my TBS head going.

 

[mice]

Good idea Hackapell. I'll chip in if I have anything to add.

I agree that a lot of people play at Noble and Prince.

Vanilla is fine. Warlords will be obselte in a few months anyway.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm not a noble player ( still losing 30% of my monarch games ), but I was expecting to see this rolling ( for the sake of the 75% ( if I recall well ) of the member of civfanatics forums that play Prince or below ( there was a poll sometime ago)), because ther are some tactics and gambits that you can do in Noble that you can't do on higher levels, like Oracle Philo ( big move) or warrior rush ( even on Prince this works, if done properly).

May I do a suggestion? Do a open game. One organizer posts a game , people play it, post on spoilers their conclusions and results ( for not disturbing other people games) and discuss the results in the end. Less work for the organizers than a ALC or EMC/IC style thread ( Aelf and Sisiutl do a hard work) and a space for discussion and learning.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That sounds pretty similar to GOTMs though, those are educational too. This months WOTM game (my first, and first conquest win!) was only my second Prince win, and it was easy.

Gauntlets are also good for advice even if everyones map and civ combos are different.

I'd like this series to continue, I feel I have some contributions to make unlike aelf and Sisutil's games which are higher level than I would be comfortable with. I agree it is a lot of effort though.

 

[r_rolo1]

I was thinking in something more like the Lonely Hearths Club: it started like the ALC, but with so many spoilers, it became more like the GOTM, in spite of willpax still posts like no one else is playing ( he even spoils his rounds, to not mess with the shadows )