NiGHTS: General Discussion

[markusbeutel]

So the new patch has been released and it will probably cause conflicts with NiGHTS. I'm currently at work, but when I get home I'll look into getting a fixed update released. Feel free to post any game breaking bugs - mainly involving the tech pyramid and the Governments screen, (as these will be the most annoying aspects for me to fix).

If it turns out that there are a significant amount of conflicts I may hold off on releasing a fix and just focus on getting V9 released.

On a side note - city states are now getting an overhaul in V9. They will now function as Native tribes and new gameplay elements involving them are on the way. I was never a fan of meeting "Stockholm" in 3000bc, and replacing citystates with native tribes should help with immersion to that extent.

Thoughts?

 

[divper]

I'm not one for forum posting... I have 4 posts (including this) in over 8 years - but I've been Civ active all that time. It takes something special for me to pipe up.


I just gave Civ Nights a try for the first time a few days ago. Im not much on mods; I try them and uninstall them usually. This is the only mod I have installed of the few dozen civ5 ones I've tried. And you know what...? This is a really great experience - not a little rule fix I can do without, nor a big mod that doesn't add as much as change the game. I've never had this much fun in a Civ game before, and I've been Civ'ving since the mid 90s! The game feels so much richer, but it's still the same game, just that much better!

I wish I had found this a long time ago. I want to thank you for your work on this, it has certainly made my few weekly hours of free-time a lot more interesting!

GREAT WORK!

It's too bad there is a patch out! Normally, I couldn't wait for the Civ5 patches, but now I'm sad because it will probably interfere with Nights!!!



ps- my previous save-game will not load.
A new game with the same start settings will.

 

[Oohforf]

On a side note - city states are now getting an overhaul in V9. They will now function as Native tribes and new gameplay elements involving them are on the way. I was never a fan of meeting "Stockholm" in 3000bc, and replacing citystates with native tribes should help with immersion to that extent.

Thoughts?

Umm, well imo, I don't know about that. The reasoning behind it is nice, but when it comes to historic time frames within the game and stuff, it really doesn't make sense. If you are using NiGHTS with say an earth mod, it will be really strange to see like, the Mohawk Tribe as a replacement for Florence. It's also just kind of odd to see a random aboriginal tribe out of nowhere in the Future Era.

Maybe you should release that as a separate and optional component to NiGHTS for people who like the original city states over tribes.

 

[markusbeutel]

Umm, well imo, I don't know about that. The reasoning behind it is nice, but when it comes to historic time frames within the game and stuff, it really doesn't make sense. If you are using NiGHTS with say an earth mod, it will be really strange to see like, the Mohawk Tribe as a replacement for Florence. It's also just kind of odd to see a random aboriginal tribe out of nowhere in the Future Era.

Maybe you should release that as a separate and optional component to NiGHTS for people who like the original city states over tribes.

It will make a little bit more sense in V9 as it there are now as many techs in the game leading up to the end of the renaissance as there were in the entire pyramid of v8.9. I do have concerns with mods like an earth mod, though. If I go ahead with Native Tribes I suppose I would have to look into modifying an earth map mod to correlate properly.

I'm also playing around with new abilities and an updated UI for Natives, and their inclusion will depend on how happy I am with the final result. So it's not a sure thing, I guess is what I'm saying, but it's something I'm seriously looking at.

I'm not one for forum posting... I have 4 posts (including this) in over 8 years - but I've been Civ active all that time. It takes something special for me to pipe up.


I just gave Civ Nights a try for the first time a few days ago. Im not much on mods; I try them and uninstall them usually. This is the only mod I have installed of the few dozen civ5 ones I've tried. And you know what...? This is a really great experience - not a little rule fix I can do without, nor a big mod that doesn't add as much as change the game. I've never had this much fun in a Civ game before, and I've been Civ'ving since the mid 90s! The game feels so much richer, but it's still the same game, just that much better!

I wish I had found this a long time ago. I want to thank you for your work on this, it has certainly made my few weekly hours of free-time a lot more interesting!

GREAT WORK!

It's too bad there is a patch out! Normally, I couldn't wait for the Civ5 patches, but now I'm sad because it will probably interfere with Nights!!!

ps- my previous save-game will not load.
A new game with the same start settings will.

Thanks divper - I probably started playing Civ around the same time as you as well. NiGHTS started out as more or less a project for myself to add a little bit of depth to vanilla CIV V. I've tried to limit micromanagement while still reward the player based on his choices of Government/Specialist/Building, etc. The latest patch adds some new abilities for modders that I'm looking forward to including in V9 so be on the lookout for that, soon.

And it looks like saved games from mods, across the board, become corrupt after the latest patch. This is unfortunate but not unexpected and I'm pretty sure it probably applies to vanilla saves as well. I've also done some limited testing and nothing seems fundamentally broken, (and my UI changes are in tact), which was and is my greatest worry with each new patch that comes out. That being said, you may end up getting some hidden bonuses from policies, and there's a chance some tech's might not function when selected. I'll keep testing and probably release a minor update for bugs that crop up between now and this coming weekend.

 

[jebst]

Testing the update.1.0.1.332. No problem loading new game. Using NIGHTS v.8i, The Vikings v.4 Game speed packed v.1 (x6 - Huge map, continents) City State diplomacy CSD v24 Info Addicts v15 City state Leaders v.3 Improved Build Queues v.7 Mod List v.4. Needed Chache out user data clean saves clean. The Resource pyramid works just fine. I bow for ur mod

 

[Canabrava]

A sugest:

Could be some diferents Great Generals. Some generals could give +1 heal points to nearby units, other more 1 vision range or more 20% defensive.

I always use at least 5 great generals and could be more important to the game.

 

[markusbeutel]

A sugest:

Could be some diferents Great Generals. Some generals could give +1 heal points to nearby units, other more 1 vision range or more 20% defensive.

I always use at least 5 great generals and could be more important to the game.

I like this idea - I am planning on adding some special abilities to generic GG's, but now I think I might also add specialized Generals that can be purchased for a premium of strategic resources.

 

[thadian]

I liked the "Hero's" from fall from heaven.

Remember those units that gain +1 exp every turn up to 100 exp? they often defined flavor within a civ, and i would much like to see Rome send Seutonius Paulinas (if i spelled that correctly) to subjegate Vercingretorix or Boadica. A special unit. A Hero.

I like this idea - I am planning on adding some special abilities to generic GG's, but now I think I might also add specialized Generals that can be purchased for a premium of strategic resources.

Why not? I would pay 1 Ivory + 1 Iron for Babar the Great. stone as a strategic resorce to build siege units.

The only thing is it shouldn't be so exotic it becomes complicated. what good is it to have 8 Heros for each civilization in each era that require the sacrifice of a specific resource combination?

I consider a "General" to be a "Commander" of an army so it is a military unit and not a citizen unit. It should be a slightly buffed varient of an existing unit, maybe with a bonus normally non-present in its class.

Babar might be a War Elephant aquired at Metullargy (a re-skinned Lancer) that has a 50% Defense chance.

Takeda Shingen might cost 2 Horses. He is a calvary that has a 20% bonus against melee and mounted units, and a -20% penalty against gunpowder units. If he dies, you get back one horse and the unit respawns with 1 Horse. If it dies with 1 horse, it dies for good.

Ashoka might be a War Elephant that costs 1 Ivory and has a promotion that makes it immune to promotions that give bonuses against mounted units. Therefore, this unit can't be rushed out with a spearman. well, maybe 3.

If you don't like the idea of "Units with this promotion are immune to This promotion" then give it a bonus against spearmen/pikemen.

 

[Cross Cowboy]

I guess if it will help you get out V9 then id rather wait. I know the mod may not work, but id prolly rather see the new version come out, then have you spend time on a fix, and then start to finish a new version. Just my 2cents though.

 

[philomelus]

I always thought about adding worker specialists. Like, a road crew that can create roads at +50% to what a normal worker can do, etc. There could be several different types, and if you don't want to use them, there is no requirement, as the normal workers would still work like normal.

There could easily be:

- Road Crew
- Farmers
- Miners
- Track Layers
- Explosive Expert (quarry)
- Loggers

I'd attach the different types to different techs or possibly era's.

The motivation for this, for me, is that I play differently depending on the race I play. Sometimes its vital to get roads up ASAP, other times its import for farms, etc. Having a way to increase the worker speed in that one area would accomplish this, without really affecting the rest of the game.

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[thadian]

Phil - i have one problem with worker types - there already are "specialists" that blow themselves up to create a "unique tile" so having a worker for farms, one for mines, one for roads... doesn't that seem a little too much?

but i saw one piece when you said "Road Crew", "Loggers", what we need is one or two more sacrificial lamb specialists that can do some things either never done in civ, or not done well, and here are some examples of what you inspired me to think of:

Environmentalist:
Plant Forest (6 turns)
Plant Jungle (8 Turns)
Change terrain one step toward mountain/plain/hill axis (8 turns)
Change terrain one step toward Ice/Desert, /Tundra/Plains, Grasslands (8 turns)

Also, if you remember the civ 2 (or was it civ 3) environmentalist could "un-nuke nuke" with good terrain instead of fallout as a consequence.

 

[markusbeutel]

I liked the "Hero's" from fall from heaven.
Remember those units that gain +1 exp every turn up to 100 exp? they often defined flavor within a civ, and i would much like to see Rome send Seutonius Paulinas (if i spelled that correctly) to subjegate Vercingretorix or Boadica. A special unit. A Hero.

After I get feedback on the overall balance of V9 I'll probably start adding unique generals along these lines but I'll hold off for V9 itself as I don't want to prolong it's release...

I guess if it will help you get out V9 then id rather wait. I know the mod may not work, but id prolly rather see the new version come out, then have you spend time on a fix, and then start to finish a new version. Just my 2cents though.

It does work in the current release - but whatever policy changes have happened in the patch may cause you to get hidden bonuses as I don't have those currently documented/supported. The Governments/Tech Pyramid function properly as far as I can tell, and you should be getting tech finishers as well, (although again, undocumented).

I always thought about adding worker specialists. Like, a road crew that can create roads at +50% to what a normal worker can do, etc. There could be several different types, and if you don't want to use them, there is no requirement, as the normal workers would still work like normal.

There could easily be:

- Road Crew
- Farmers
- Miners
- Track Layers
- Explosive Expert (quarry)
- Loggers

I'd attach the different types to different techs or possibly era's.

The motivation for this, for me, is that I play differently depending on the race I play. Sometimes its vital to get roads up ASAP, other times its import for farms, etc. Having a way to increase the worker speed in that one area would accomplish this, without really affecting the rest of the game.

Any thoughts, anyone?

I've actually attempted something like this in my test games over the past few months, (I added specific farmers, miners, and traders). The snag is always that the AI has extreme difficulty in judging when to buy them, and how to use them, as it sees all worker-type units as vanilla workers, (and this can't be changed until I get dll access). Under these conditions, the AI would buy a miner, for example, build a mine, buy 5 more miners, and not use them for anything as there are no more minesleft ot be built.

This is part of the reason why the Worker unit has sooo many functions available to it - because it didn't, the AI would quickly run out of options and not understand that it's units were worthless. There is code in the game that allows me to limit the amount of overall Workers - but this applies to all worker units, and I wouldn't be able to specify between uniques like miners/traders. I think Firaxis included this in the game in their attempt to limit turn-lag in later eras, (less workers = less lag), but decided against it, as limiting the number of Workers, with no adjustment for map types, makes for extremely broken gameplay.

Phil - i have one problem with worker types - there already are "specialists" that blow themselves up to create a "unique tile" so having a worker for farms, one for mines, one for roads... doesn't that seem a little too much?

but i saw one piece when you said "Road Crew", "Loggers", what we need is one or two more sacrificial lamb specialists that can do some things either never done in civ, or not done well, and here are some examples of what you inspired me to think of:

Environmentalist:
Plant Forest (6 turns)
Plant Jungle (8 Turns)
Change terrain one step toward mountain/plain/hill axis (8 turns)
Change terrain one step toward Ice/Desert, /Tundra/Plains, Grasslands (8 turns)

Also, if you remember the civ 2 (or was it civ 3) environmentalist could "un-nuke nuke" with good terrain instead of fallout as a consequence.

These specialists themselves are being disabled for V9 - although this probably won't be permanent. I'll need feedback on overall balance with all the new units/buildings, and including these in the mod would just make optimum balance difficult to judge. I'm also working on getting cottages back in the game, (CIV IV style), and if I can achieve this, they will probably stay disabled. They may still show up in the game, but not as playable units, just as specialists that grant bonuses through building slots - which should help retain the flavor/immersion that they add to NiGHTS.


Also, what are people's thoughts on the new Research Agreement formula? I might bring this back to the mod in it's current iteration if there are no objections.

 

[thadian]

i like the new formula better than the old one but i still say give a popup offering a flat-rate of beakers to a tech of choice, with a penalty for choosing techs equal to or higher than your highest tech.

no objection at all it wont affect my enjoyment as i don't use RA's for slingshots. sometimes i block some bad ones or i "choose" by blocking a tech of choice but i don't use all the combo's to pop scientists to get early rifling or anything. i would be happy with GS's also giving raw beakers. with overflow, you could still climb 2 techs ahead which is reasonable.

 

[markusbeutel]

i like the new formula better than the old one but i still say give a popup offering a flat-rate of beakers to a tech of choice, with a penalty for choosing techs equal to or higher than your highest tech.

no objection at all it wont affect my enjoyment as i don't use RA's for slingshots. sometimes i block some bad ones or i "choose" by blocking a tech of choice but i don't use all the combo's to pop scientists to get early rifling or anything. i would be happy with GS's also giving raw beakers. with overflow, you could still climb 2 techs ahead which is reasonable.

I'll probably put it back in then as it doesn't seem nearly as game-breaking anymore.

VERSION 8.9J Released to http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16650

This is basically a fix for the latest Patch with a few new things added to the mix.

CHANGELOG:

• Moved various buildings around to correlate with patch additions of bonuses to GP improvements.
• Fixed bug where certain Techs were causing crashes when clicked.
• Tweaked Terrains
• Fixed Graphical bugs on the Tech Pyramid and the Governments screen

What you'll notice with this update, is that I've introduced some terrain changes I had been planning for V9. You will come across a far greater variety of terrains, with less open swathes of Plains or Grasslands. This should lead to far more varied and interesting game starts and will put more of a premium on the Mining and Bronze Working Techs as a result of the increased amount of Forests/Jungles/Hills, etc.

 

[Huck Finn]

Great mod. Finally played Civ 5 after a long hiatus. This mod makes the severly flawed vanilla game fun again.

I have two stupid questions, bear with me please. I'm sure it's explained already in the thread but its getting quite long to comb through.

These specialist people I produce at times, like "Spice Trader"... what is the deal with them? Is this a time saving way to instantly make a plantation without the build time? Can I only use them on Spice plots within my lands?

Policies....the tooltip confused me a bit... So, say I'm on Despotism. I choose one of the policies on top, and then later choose one below it, is it true the bottom-most one will cancel out the top one's effects? If I switch from Despotism to Monarchy, I lose all the policies I chose in the Despotism branch, correct?

Thanks

 

[markusbeutel]

Great mod. Finally played Civ 5 after a long hiatus. This mod makes the severly flawed vanilla game fun again.

I have two stupid questions, bear with me please. I'm sure it's explained already in the thread but its getting quite long to comb through.

These specialist people I produce at times, like "Spice Trader"... what is the deal with them? Is this a time saving way to instantly make a plantation without the build time? Can I only use them on Spice plots within my lands?

Policies....the tooltip confused me a bit... So, say I'm on Despotism. I choose one of the policies on top, and then later choose one below it, is it true the bottom-most one will cancel out the top one's effects? If I switch from Despotism to Monarchy, I lose all the policies I chose in the Despotism branch, correct?

Thanks

Glad you like it - it's in the middle of a pretty large update so things like specialists, for example, will soon play out very differently.

As for specialists themselves, they're basically one-time use Great People that each have a unique improvement that can be built. The spice trader can build an instantly powerful plantation - and yes, only on Spice plots within your lands.

As far as Governments, policies within a particular government tree do not cancel each other out - rather, picking that specific policy from a more advanced Government will. For example, choosing the economic policy of Feudalism would disable the economic policy of Despotism, with all other enacted Despotism policies remaining in tact.

This is changing to a hybrid of CIV V and CIV IV in the next update with each Government becoming mutually exclusive and focused on a particular style of game-play.

 

[gazius]

This is changing to a hybrid of CIV V and CIV IV in the next update with each Government becoming mutually exclusive and focused on a particular style of game-play.

Will the benefits of the government policies alter then? I really like the policies as they are now since they make the transition from government to government seem natural instead of weird, forced, when made mutually exclusive.

Is it possible to take the second feudal policy branch and still open up the first city improvement one? The city trees seem like they should be, if not tied directly to policy, more loosely based on them.

Overall though I've been enjoying the mod, either I'm not used to playing like this, or I've fought the hardest war I've ever encountered in a civ game. If there were population stats, I'm pretty something like 70% of all men in my country are dead. And it's not a small country. Seems wrong you can dash your troops on the walls of an enemy in a last ditch effort to survive and stability goes UP, due to loss of unrest from dead troops. Not sure if you can create a delayed effect there, either in recruiting the units or after they are lost.

 

[jayjay77]

turn 268 AD 1260 on standard speed when i gave up. The balance needs work, this far into the game and the AI is still using warriors, Techs are 25-45 turns on standard, to build a library is plus 30 turns. Too many buildings, i dont know what to do with them, they mostly seem useless and previous problem of it taking an eternity to build or research anything, its too confusing as they are too specific, i loved the specialisation in civ 4 but this doesnt work. i was Middle ages in years but still in classic ages for all, will be 1990s before anyone gets a knight, way too slow and boring, even more boring than vanilla!!! Tech and policies screen doesnt fit the computer screen, its cut of at the bottom. No new troops so far which is sad. Whats the point of stability? ok i dont really like the happiness on civ 5 but this just takes all the challenge out of it, its never a problem to constantly be in good stability no matter how many cities i have allowing early expansion to a ridiculous level. No new resources was also sad.

I always felt the problems with CIV 5 that could be modded are more resources to gain extra production, new troops and new buildings that help. Maybe im doing something wrong but in the 2 games i played with this mod i have no positives to tell you, Im not writing to insult the mod I hope that some of this can be used as constructive criticism.

 

[markusbeutel]

turn 268 AD 1260 on standard speed when i gave up. The balance needs work, this far into the game and the AI is still using warriors, Techs are 25-45 turns on standard, to build a library is plus 30 turns. Too many buildings, i dont know what to do with them, they mostly seem useless and previous problem of it taking an eternity to build or research anything, its too confusing as they are too specific, i loved the specialisation in civ 4 but this doesnt work. i was Middle ages in years but still in classic ages for all, will be 1990s before anyone gets a knight, way too slow and boring, even more boring than vanilla!!! Tech and policies screen doesnt fit the computer screen, its cut of at the bottom. No new troops so far which is sad. Whats the point of stability? ok i dont really like the happiness on civ 5 but this just takes all the challenge out of it, its never a problem to constantly be in good stability no matter how many cities i have allowing early expansion to a ridiculous level. No new resources was also sad.

I always felt the problems with CIV 5 that could be modded are more resources to gain extra production, new troops and new buildings that help. Maybe im doing something wrong but in the 2 games i played with this mod i have no positives to tell you, Im not writing to insult the mod I hope that some of this can be used as constructive criticism.

The latest update makes the game playable under the latest patch - it doesn't address any balance issues. Seeing as the patch was focused on balance issues, everything from build times, to enemy units, to research costs - will be off. The mod is also undergoing a complete re-imagination which is way I've chosen not to address any of these patch changes in a fix.

Complaints regarding happiness, early expansion speed, and AI units are all being addressed. As for the Governments screen, it's designed for a minimum resolution of 1440 by 900, which most PC monitors have/support these days. I don't plan on adding resources as there is currently on way to provide custom graphics and I don't want to re-use graphics.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[maqabee]

Your nights mod is fantastic? I have tried a few games. Since I like the builder side of civ, over war mango, it's pace and more choices is wonderful. i do have a quick ? In nights, how do you win a cultural game? Thanks in advance.