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I don't see the point of not allowing the DLC civs, considering Siam and Persia are easily the most OP civs in the game. Always the runaway AIs even in games full of the DLC civs, hell players that play as Darius have been talking about nonstop golden ages. But o noes a civ gets slightly faster GS, or more money IF and WHEN they find NW?

DLC civs are not broken or OP in anyway. And picking who I am every game, and who my opponents are? Lame, very lame to take away the random civ option.
 
I think the HOF concept is to allow players to choose their opponents to optimize their game. But there's nothing that stops you from choosing at random.
 
I don't see the point of not allowing the DLC civs, considering Siam and Persia are easily the most OP civs in the game. Always the runaway AIs even in games full of the DLC civs, hell players that play as Darius have been talking about nonstop golden ages. But o noes a civ gets slightly faster GS, or more money IF and WHEN they find NW?

DLC civs are not broken or OP in anyway. And picking who I am every game, and who my opponents are? Lame, very lame to take away the random civ option.
We are trying to make the HOF tables as comparable as possible. Not everyone is going to have all the DLC. So other than Mongolia, which was free, the only way to be sure everyone is playing from the same deck is to disallow the other DLC as opponents.

Technically, I guess we could enable those civs for players to play as, but not as opponents and not for the VVV or gauntlets. I am not sure if that wouldn't be confusing, though. We'll discuss that among the staff.

I think the HOF concept is to allow players to choose their opponents to optimize their game. But there's nothing that stops you from choosing at random.
Well, we aren't accepting games were DLC Civs other than Mongolia are used. See above. It is a POA but what can we do.
 
very lame to take away the random civ option.
just temporarily move the DLC folders before starting civ, if you want random. full instructions have been posted.

babylon is extremely powerful, they have a huge advantage for any science victory game.
 
Well, we aren't accepting games were DLC Civs other than Mongolia are used. See above. It is a POA but what can we do.

Sure, I understand. What I meant was, he was complaining he couldn't play with random opponents, but it's easy enough to select the opponents but do so randomly from the allowed choices.
 
just temporarily move the DLC folders before starting civ, if you want random. full instructions have been posted.

babylon is extremely powerful, they have a huge advantage for any science victory game.

Personally, I feel Babylon is the best for Science, Diplo, and Culture. All three are tech races, in their own way.
 
just temporarily move the DLC folders before starting civ, if you want random. full instructions have been posted.

babylon is extremely powerful, they have a huge advantage for any science victory game.

That is a royal pain to have to keep moving the folders out for one game and back for another one.
 
That is a royal pain to have to keep moving the folders out for one game and back for another one.
Why do u move folder out for one game and back for another one (see my post on previous page)?

Is it for random opponents or do you want other players to have the opportunity to look at your save files (players how don't own all DLC)?
 
Why do u move folder out for one game and back for another one (see my post on previous page)?

Is it for random opponents or do you want other players to have the opportunity to look at your save files (players how don't own all DLC)?

Yes and yes
 
My thought on this is that the base HoF has to be as it is (no paid DLC). Unless someone comes up with a mod that removes the DLC flag from the saves, I don't think those that have them should have to manually move them back and forth to play HoF games. I for one wouldn't bother, which would suck for me.

I would really like to have a second table similar to the CivIV expansions that allows all DLC. This would leave the Civ V HoF as 2 tables regardless of how many more paid DLC we get. This would allow those of us that have paid to play fully random games and still submit them, while not corrupting the table for those that haven't got the paid DLC.

And I think having a mod that allows us to play without the chance of a DLC being selected would be nice too, but agree that if it's going to be made, it may as well be made to do all that's needed
 
My thought on this is that the base HoF has to be as it is (no paid DLC). Unless someone comes up with a mod that removes the DLC flag from the saves, I don't think those that have them should have to manually move them back and forth to play HoF games. I for one wouldn't bother, which would suck for me.

That's only needed if you want the Random Opponent selection to never pick a "banned" DLC Opponent.

If you are willing to select each Opponent and avoid using a "banned" DLC Opponent, you don't need to move the DLC folders.

I would really like to have a second table similar to the CivIV expansions that allows all DLC. This would leave the Civ V HoF as 2 tables regardless of how many more paid DLC we get. This would allow those of us that have paid to play fully random games and still submit them, while not corrupting the table for those that haven't got the paid DLC.

That would be fine with me, though the base HoF would probably be considered the primary one, since everyone could compete on a level playing filed only here.

The second table with only submissions that contain DLC Leaders and also DLC Player Leaders would necessarily be a secondary table. It would probably make more sense to do a join of the two tables for comparison purposes. So the tables could be viewed as:

Base Table: No "banned" DLC permitted (Default View of the Civ V HoF)

Secondary Table: All Game Submissions containing "banned" DLC as either the Player Leader or as any Opponent.

Joined Table: Simple Union of Base Table and Secondary Table

I would expect that most Players that choose not to use "banned" (meaning banned in the Base Table) DLC, will use the default view of the Civ V HoF = Base Table.

I would expect that most Players that choose to use "banned" (meaning banned in the Base Table) DLC, will use the joined view of the Civ V HoF = Base Table + Secondary Table.

And I think having a mod that allows us to play without the chance of a DLC being selected would be nice too, but agree that if it's going to be made, it may as well be made to do all that's needed

That would be great, but dependent on the Civ V developers to provide the necessary API and functions that would permit this to work. That may be a one or two years from now, if ever (Civ V hasn't been particularly successful and the earlier patches fixed game balance issues by limiting player choice and not rewarding skillful play). What I just wrote in parentheses may be considered by others as controversial; I see it as fact, but I will not debate the point in this thread. There are other threads where such debating might be more appropriate.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
(Civ V hasn't been particularly successful and the earlier patches fixed game balance issues by limiting player choice and not rewarding skillful play). What I just wrote in parentheses may be considered by others as controversial; I see it as fact, but I will not debate the point in this thread. There are other threads where such debating might be more appropriate.

Sun Tzu Wu
OK no debate ;), but I think the discussion in G Major 1 is pretty good. Civ V getting more and more interesting and from a player skill point of view I found it to be comparable with Civ IV with less micromanagement (read faster game).
 
OK no debate ;), but I think the discussion in G Major 1 is pretty good. Civ V getting more and more interesting and from a player skill point of view I found it to be comparable with Civ IV with less micromanagement (read faster game).

I agree. Not sure I'll actually get around to playing the game but I'm enjoying following the discussions for G-Major I, its very interesting. I think player skill and having the right plans/tactics from the beginning of the game are going to be important in Civ V.
 
OK no debate ;), but I think the discussion in G Major 1 is pretty good. Civ V getting more and more interesting and from a player skill point of view I found it to be comparable with Civ IV with less micromanagement (read faster game).

There is something to be said for games that can be finished in two to two and a half hours. As you build more units and get away from the OCC pure builder model, games take longer.

My sense after about a half-dozen efforts at G-Major-1 is that everything is going to really come together for somebody that tries enough times, and that player is going to blast everyone else out of the water. There is a tight clustering of observations right now because players are getting different pieces to come together, but not the whole mosaic.

I'd describe it this way: skill is going to be necessary, but not sufficient, to post the fastest time. A small amount of extra luck along the way will yield a large difference in completion dates. While that was also true in Civ 4, my sense is that you had a much better idea of how the game was going to go a lot earlier on.
 
There is something to be said for games that can be finished in two to two and a half hours. As you build more units and get away from the OCC pure builder model, games take longer.

Do I understand correctly that you guys are playing Civ5 games to completion in 2-3 hours??? What am I doing wrong? I am usually one of the faster (in real time) players of Civ4, but I find that Civ5 games take me a lot longer. My computer's very fast, too... its mostly thinking time and answering prompts for units/diplomacy changes and/or finding information that I'm looking for... so I expect to get faster with experience... but nothing like 2-3 hours. I'd be happy if I could win a game in under 10h. :sad:
 
Do I understand correctly that you guys are playing Civ5 games to completion in 2-3 hours??? What am I doing wrong?

I'm surprised; I didn't think I played all that fast.

Quick combat helps. Warmongering and heavily allying city-states make the game take a lot longer, because both expand the number of tiles you can see and therefore the amount of time in which you are forced to watch AI moves.

Knowing your gameplan and therefore not having to stop and consider every build or tech choice carefully also helps. If all you're doing is pushing a couple of Workers and a military unit or two around in an OCC, the per turn decision tree is pretty limited.

As a rule, the only data source I regularly consult is the "Deal History" screen, so that I can force RAs to give me the techs I want, know when I can expect more cash, and know when to fund new Research Agreements.
 
^Must be mostly the quick combat... I've been playing GOTM games that don't use that setting. I've also left that setting off in some other games in the hopes that I will eventually get to see the nuclear explosion graphics. :lol: Also I'm sometimes suprised by events and don't know what happened when quick combat is used.

Also I tend to go towards larger empires and haven't used OCC except a couple times.

Its not as bad as it used to be, but I still get a little motion-sickness watching the screen flit around the map for all the "action". So I end turn, get up from computer and get a drink, go back to the computer to answer the prompts. And given that sequence, there is absolutely no reason for me to play without quick combat. :lol: Thanks for the suggestion!

Of course, coming up with a plan would require that I play using the same patch more than once or twice... all those updates really wreak havoc on most of my plans. :crazyeye:
 
I don't use the quick combat and still can run them off in < 4 hours for OCC. At least, with quick or standard speed like I'm currently doing.

Having said that, my current game is going to take at least 4 sessions (so, 8-10 hours) as it's a warmongering large map, and even with quick speed, and only 1 city to run orders in, it still has lots to do.
 
I thought 10h was lightning speed.

:lol: I've watched where I spend my time in my few sessions this past weekend. I find that the moving of units is a large fraction of the extra time. Because of the 1-UPT rule, I don't dare put units on goto orders. Maneuvering around other units is also requiring some thinking: do I go off the road to get max moves this turn or stay on the road with movement left, and get back the movement next turn. Stuff like that. Postioning before strikes... heal now or after battle... etc.

Lots of new stuff. Maybe once I get a lot of XP with it, I can go thru it all more automatically. Can't group units and move them together... so every unit gets attention every turn just about. In a big game with lots of units.... that's where my time goes.
 
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