No Modern Archer like Unit?!

[PieceOfMind]

Indirect confirmation: http://www.worldofmeh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/civv4.jpg
Cannon is ready to fire and, since it has 1/2 movement, I assume it just moved.

Hmm... or it could be the set up, which took this movement point?

Hmm, that's in the video I was just looking at in the other thread, and the cannon does indeed fire with only 1 movement point. However, you don't see the cannon actually moving before it.

Maybe this was in the closed demo footage. I'll check now, but the movement point being used by setup sounds plausible IMO.

EDIT
Ok, so in the demo you also don't see the cannons set or move before-hand, so it's still up in the air.

 

[AriochIV]

I get a 404 error on that link.

The catapult and trebuchet need to set up before firing. This has never been directly confirmed on any other siege unit, however.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I get a 404 error on that link.

Don't copy-paste the text, there are auto-inserted dots in place of long link, just open the link itself.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Try this

Spoiler :

 

[AriochIV]

It takes one movement point to set up. You can set up and fire in the same turn.

 

[stealth_nsk]

It takes one movement point to set up. You can set up and fire in the same turn.

And after setting up, the set up icon is hidden, not just greyed out? This way - yes, it's more likely to be fire after set up, especially if it's staying on hill as it looks like, which would use more than 1 movement point.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Another thought: In the videos (and you can see in the screenshot too), graphically the cannons are literally ready to go and the guys have the flame ready (sorry I don't know the real name for it). I have a feeling that flame is meant to be a quick way to see that the cannon is ready to fire. In that case, are there images or video of the cannon without the fire, or with the cannons not looking like they are set up?

Since that is a scenario that has been used for different results in at least two different demos, I'm guessing those cannons were indeed ordered to setup before the gamesave was made or at least before the demo was shot.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Since that is a scenario that has been used for different results in at least two different demos, I'm guessing those cannons were indeed ordered to setup before the gamesave was made or at least before the demo was shot.

Do these cannons have 1/2 movement in both demos? If yes - they probably need set up, but if on one they have 2/2, they don't.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Do these cannons have 1/2 movement in both demos? If yes - they probably need set up, but if on one they have 2/2, they don't.

In the closed demo, there were 4 cannons put into combat, but only in the first one was the movement points of the cannon visible, and it was 1/2 as expected. For the other 3, the sneaky camera guy cropped the bottom of the screen.

 

[Schuesseled]

Correct I do know that. The thing is that artillaries and such must wait a turn and setup before firing.

it doesn't take a turn to set up, it takes one movement point. (there are two movement points total, so as long as you don't move that turn you can always shoot. unless you give your uinit extrea movement points)

 

[Tomice]

Well, from a realism point of view, archers and self-propelled modern artillery are ready in very few minutes, a trebuchet on the other hand was most likely transported in pieces (if not constructed locally) so the set-up time would be hours or even days.

Cannons and other towed artillery are probably ready in 5-15 minutes, so we are much closer to the archers than to wooden siege engines.


From a gameplay point of view, why would the devs want to give us a reason to keep archers around until the 20th century? If cannons were instantly ready, they could replace ALL medieval ranged units without leaving a gap.

I tend to believe set-up time is only a problem of rather primitive siege engines.

 

[Tarkhan]

Age of Empires 2 had a good implementation of Trebuchets, though it was an RTS.

They were packed into carts and moved really slowly, and had set-up time. Immensely weak to attack, specifically by cavalry. A trebuchet wasn't made to fight armies, but to bombard cities (or castles, in that time period.)

A cannon requires little set up time, but it also can't be out there on it's own, it's heavy, and had to be towed by horses. Typically once it was in place, it wouldn't move during a battle. You have a sort of split here, where smaller field cannons could be used in a battle between armies, and larger guns would be used against fortifications.

Even up until World War 2, artillery was dug in and for all intensive purposes, it was a stationary gun.

 

[Schuesseled]

Another thought: In the videos (and you can see in the screenshot too), graphically the cannons are literally ready to go and the guys have the flame ready (sorry I don't know the real name for it). I have a feeling that flame is meant to be a quick way to see that the cannon is ready to fire. In that case, are there images or video of the cannon without the fire, or with the cannons not looking like they are set up?

Since that is a scenario that has been used for different results in at least two different demos, I'm guessing those cannons were indeed ordered to setup before the gamesave was made or at least before the demo was shot.

Siege units are in thier ready to fire status at all times, which is a little dissapointing considering they have to set up to fire, it would have been nice to see some unpacking and packing ala age of empires 2.

 

[Ahriman]

The thing is that artillaries and such must wait a turn and setup before firing.

I would guess that cannon and artillery need to set up, but I would not be surprised if rocket artillery (which is self-propelled) did not need to set up.

And as far as no archer equivalent, the modern era has aircraft instead.

 

[Tylerryan79]

If the cannon has two movement points, and moved to the hill, wouldnt that use them up? Isnt their a penalty for moving on hills? If so, then he would have had to already moved, then next turn set up, and he still has the one movement point to fire.

 

[Ahriman]

If so, then he would have had to already moved, then next turn set up, and he still has the one movement point to fire.

Well yeah, this is clearly what happened.

 

[Tylerryan79]

I see Stealth said that, skipped over it I guess browsing. Plus I like to state the obvious

 

[Xetal]

Apparently archers have longer range than any kind of gunpowder infantry (which are direct attack only).

I like the ranged attack for siege weapons and ships, but I have to admit I think that it is a poor choice for archery/gunpowder units.

 

[wapamingo]

There should be a % chance of friendly fire damage when artillery or battleships fire on enemy units adjacent to friendly unites, with the % change of friendly fire damage increasing the further the artillery/battleship is shooting from.

Opinions?

 

[PieceOfMind]

If the cannon has two movement points, and moved to the hill, wouldnt that use them up? Isnt their a penalty for moving on hills? If so, then he would have had to already moved, then next turn set up, and he still has the one movement point to fire.

Good point.

But I still wonder whether there is a graphical distinction between a set up seige unit and one that isn't set up. I'm assuming yes, but I haven't sifted through screenshots looking for a before and after shot of cannons or other siege units that require setup.