It is, indeed, a loss, but a very minor one. The rest of the features such as better AI, hidden agendas and the likes will more than make up for the exclusion of the world congress, so I am fine with it. Unlike religion, spyionage or trade routes, this is one of these aspects that truthly feels like "expansion material", so to speak.
I like the world congress in CiV but don't mind waiting for an expansion for it. Especially if they change the diplomatic system. Better to wait and see how it works out with all those agendas and progression and the envoys to city-states.
Diplomatic victory on the other hand is something I can live without, in III it was a gamble, in IV (Vanilla, at least) a matter of having more population than the others, and in V having enough gold to buy all the city-states.
Exactly my view- we will have to wait and see how diplomacy has changed as a basic game mechanic first. It seems like a good thing for them to leave out the vanilla release, see how players and the AI deal with diplomacy, and then tailor a world congress or UN in response.
I liked the collaborative resolutions and world fairs and stuff, and embargoes have potential as non military weapons if the AI is competent. But BNW's congress was still too much of a city state vending machine, and the diplomatic victory felt like anything other than a genuine diplomatic success. I would only want the victory condition to return if it was completely overhauled.
I'm sorry but I am not bothered. First of all, World Congress had room to improve and I'd ideally want a combination of Apostolic Palace and World Congress/UN to replace it and be a little more expanded.
Embargos were purely gold-wise, you could STILL trade luxuries/stuff with the embargo'd civs which made no sense.
The whole resolution system while cool, was flawed diplomacy wise because you'd always have to decide if you want to get a diplo penalty from civs that opposed those resolutions.
I'm upset because I like voting-like mechanics but it's far from a disaster, It's not watering down the diplomacy since the diplmacy is STILL part of a game just like it was pre BNW.
it is fine that it got removed for now. IF the Ai and Dip is way better then civ 5, then they can come back to it for X2 and have the wold congress be a better system.
Like some way said it is heavy exploitable in civ 5. get the AI and dip right first
I wonder if this means there's no diplomatic victory? I read that there was one new victory and one old one is gone. Not counting the time victory it was often the least satisfying victory. The space/science victory is too iconic to lose, domination has to exist since no opponents is victory, and they just created a good culture system and they're no going to lose it now.
So I think diplomatic.victory is gone.
I won't miss it. It did not do much in civ5. Plus, Beach is basically deconstructing civ and rebuilding it from the ground up. I suspect that we will see a world congress equivalent and a new diplo victory, probably in an expansion, when Beach feels that he can fully integrate it into civ6 in a way that really works with all the new mechanics, especially the new diplo.
I won't miss it. It did not do much in civ5. Plus, Beach is basically deconstructing civ and rebuilding it from the ground up. I suspect that we will see a world congress equivalent and a new diplo victory, probably in an expansion, when Beach feels that he can fully integrate it into civ6 in a way that really works with all the new mechanics, especially the new diplo.
This is what I am expecting. I felt CiV simplified the political process from 4 then it took until BNW to build it back up to a somewhat comprable level. I do hope this new diplomatic AI is much more in depth in the base game, because then it would give something for an expansion to build on. Some prefer a simple form of diplomacy but at the end of the day to have a proper nation building game, even without realism, you need a solid and deep diplomatic system.
Now I understand the World Congress/UN was a bit tedious and on top of that they forced players to be bound to resolutions. I think the idea of having the resolutions as guidelines but still capable of being broken, albeit with negative diplo modifiers would be a far superior way to implement it. Because let us be honest, many UN resolutions are ignored after their passing.
Well it's a feature with great potential but I've not yet come across a good implementation of it. I'd love stuff like
Ability to build pirates and raider units that can attack without declaring war with whatever technology until
Anti piracy resolution, cannot build new pirate units. Result they slowly get hunted down
This is what I am expecting. I felt CiV simplified the political process from 4 then it took until BNW to build it back up to a somewhat comprable level. I do hope this new diplomatic AI is much more in depth in the base game, because then it would give something for an expansion to build on. Some prefer a simple form of diplomacy but at the end of the day to have a proper nation building game, even without realism, you need a solid and deep diplomatic system.
Now I understand the World Congress/UN was a bit tedious and on top of that they forced players to be bound to resolutions. I think the idea of having the resolutions as guidelines but still capable of being broken, albeit with negative diplo modifiers would be a far superior way to implement it. Because let us be honest, many UN resolutions are ignored after their passing.
I think the World Congress was a band-aid solution to save Diplomacy in Civ 5. I like the idea you have about them being guidelines and not forced a lot, but how do you not force "no happiness from luxuries'? Again, I think it was band-aid until a rework of diplomacy was possible. Another thing about World Congress that somewhat bothers me is that your nation must join, while there are modern day nations that don't care about the United Nations at all.
It's hard to find a game approach that mimics real life in the right spots, but I do feel that the dev team will do their best with Civ 6, and then make necessary changes in follow on expansions, perhaps with another take on world congress.
With no World Congress, I'm assuming all global diplomacy is out. This bums me out for reasons that go beyond the removal of Diplomatic Victories (which I enjoyed). Without global diplomacy, I don't see a way to impose diplomatic sanctions against other nations.
In my opinion, peaceful solutions against problematic Civs should be just as viable as violent ones. Not ever problem should be solved with bullets and bombs; embargoes and standing army taxes should provide peaceful alternatives to declarations of war.
It also means things like art and science funding, scholars in residence, world fairs, etc are gone. I liked that diplomacy was still useful for players pursuing Science and Cultural Victories. With City-State bonuses being expanded upon, I suppose it still will, but I don't know if it's going to be as fun as trying to push your agendas through the World Congress was.
Just because it was bad doesn't mean it couldn't be improved upon. Look at Cultural Victories in Civ5 vanilla vs those in BNW. The system wasn't fun, so they overhauled it to make it more engaging and enjoyable. I'd rather they have done the same with Diplomatic Victories instead of scrapping them altogether.
With no World Congress, I'm assuming all global diplomacy is out. This bums me out for reasons that go beyond the removal of Diplomatic Victories (which I enjoyed). Without global diplomacy, I don't see a way to impose diplomatic sanctions against other nations.
In my opinion, peaceful solutions against problematic Civs should be just as viable as violent ones. Not ever problem should be solved with bullets and bombs; embargoes and standing army taxes should provide peaceful alternatives to declarations of war.
It's all good on paper, but you can't emulate real-life diplomacy in computer game. No game could be detailed enough to carry the necessary nuances needed for real diplomacy. In the end we always have some high-level abstraction. Any sanctions in diplomatic victory will be just an exploit for human player. I like if we could avoid this altogether.
As the vanilla version has so many features, there's gotta be something for the expansions too right?
Maybe first expansions brings us world congress, apostolic palace and crusades like in Civ 4. And along that diplomatic victory revamped.
Also there still can be sanctions and embargos against enemy empires made thru normal diplo screen, we need to know more about diplomacy features first.
With no World Congress, I'm assuming all global diplomacy is out. This bums me out for reasons that go beyond the removal of Diplomatic Victories (which I enjoyed). Without global diplomacy, I don't see a way to impose diplomatic sanctions against other nations.
In my opinion, peaceful solutions against problematic Civs should be just as viable as violent ones. Not ever problem should be solved with bullets and bombs; embargoes and standing army taxes should provide peaceful alternatives to declarations of war.
It also means things like art and science funding, scholars in residence, world fairs, etc are gone. I liked that diplomacy was still useful for players pursuing Science and Cultural Victories. With City-State bonuses being expanded upon, I suppose it still will, but I don't know if it's going to be as fun as trying to push your agendas through the World Congress was.
Just because it was bad doesn't mean it couldn't be improved upon. Look at Cultural Victories in Civ5 vanilla vs those in BNW. The system wasn't fun, so they overhauled it to make it more engaging and enjoyable. I'd rather they have done the same with Diplomatic Victories instead of scrapping them altogether.
I believe that at least CIV and CiV brought in UN variants with expansions.
Give Civvi time to bed in, and then they can improve on diplomacy with am expansion pack
Just because it was bad doesn't mean it couldn't be improved upon. Look at Cultural Victories in Civ5 vanilla vs those in BNW. The system wasn't fun, so they overhauled it to make it more engaging and enjoyable. I'd rather they have done the same with Diplomatic Victories instead of scrapping them altogether.
If Diplo Victory is out of vanilla, and it probably is, it is almost guaranteed to be brought back in a DLC. Considering that we get almost all of the systems from Civ 5 at launch we can't really complain that one had to be dropped. I am sure the reason it has been removed for now was for them to properly fix it. It probably required more work due to all the changes in city-states, agendas etc.
What really don't understand is a cult of the amount of features. Diplomatic victory was always a junk, which most players just disabled. World congress was a heap of exploits and absolutely useless staff. Still, most of comments are about loss and hopes to get them in expansion. Come on, there's such thing as redundancy.
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