Noble01: The One They're Afraid to Start

I know we did mention something about vertical research and trading out the latest technology to backfill. However, there's also "keeping your advantage". Trading out military techs or civic-unlocking techs may not be the best move as it would allow others to catch up.

Got it, will play shortly. 10 turn rounds from now on.
 
Yeah, I know... CS was probably a weedy move but we desperately needed the free beakers. And anyway, Germany already had CS.
 
Sorry I have to ask for a skip. Llamacat, you are up! 10 turn rounds.

I did look at the save though:
1. Losing money at 60% science, that's bad... for a cottage economy. :D Since we have a specialist economy "with Representation", there is nothing to be afraid of and in fact we may still be out-researching the AI.
2. Whip courthouse in Baghdad and English cities for 2 population each. I think 3 is too much penalty at this point in time. Also any newly captured cities should have a granary.
3. Close the border against Catherine. Sure it will make war more likely but that means she can't settle our empty peninsula.
4. Speaking of which, I suggest we can build settlers to settle the peninsula once we are making money at 60-70% science. BTW who suggested those city sites at the peninsula. Those are good sites. :thumbsup:
5. Try to find a new city we can cottage spam at. Specialist research is great, but we still need some money cities to stay out of debt.
6. Build more workers. 1-2 more will do.
 
1050 AD
I sell some extra wine to Alex for 5 gold per turn; rush a workboat in Nottingham; move a lot of wounded units into London to heal.

1060
Mecca and Medina are good production cities now, so I order up some longbowmen in Mecca to defend the new cities and some attacking units in Medina for probable war with Catherine. It looks like Cathy has some mounted troops clear on the other side of our empire. Time to close the borders with her.

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1070
Machinery comes in... I love Macemen for busting down city defenders in the early game. Also going to take advantage of building watermills in Nottingham. Now researching Education.

1080
nothing happens

1090
Gonna make a settler in Mecca to start populating that lower peninsula... wow, only 3 turns? I love that Bureaucracy civic.... This russian city looks very lonely, so far removed from the rest of Cathy's lands. I'm circling a few troops from London down toward Medina. I promote one of the elephants to sentry and now see that this city is not that well defended:

Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg


1100
London comes out of resistance and I start on a Jewish temple. Also, I've started a Hindu missionary in Canterbury to spread our religion to these new cities up north. Barb city located in the west:

Civ4ScreenShot0029-1.jpg


I whip the courthouse in Baghdad; funds are running low, down to 40% science rate, but we still have a great scientist to rush Education, which I haven't used yet.

1110
Start on a galley in Baghdad; drat! Alex won't open borders for our exploring warrior:

Civ4ScreenShot0030-1.jpg


1120
Axeman in the west was attacked by a barb archer and now healing. He's mostly just opening up the darkness out there and surviving with woodsman promotions.

Umm, what the heck is this? Didn't know there was a settler-axeman sitting on this coast. I will found a new city immediately:

Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg


I'm going to whip the National Epic in Damacus, costing 4 population. But the city is growing quickly and it's serving its purpose admirably: cranking out beakers like there's no tomorrow:

Civ4ScreenShot0032-1.jpg


1130
Missionary spreads buddhism to Hastings

1140
Whip courthouse in Nottingham; I've posted a couple of unit stacks outside that russian city, which we could take very easily if someone wants to declare war on Cathy. NOTE: I've left all of the units in and around London unpromoted for now. I've indicated the two stacks outside Cathy's borders in the next shot:

Civ4ScreenShot0034.jpg


I think all our current civics are serving us well right at the moment: Representation, Bureaucracy, Slavery, Organized Religion. I didn't get a chance to start creating any new workers in my turns here.

I've got a new settler and longbowman one tile away from one of the proposed city sites to the southwest of Mecca. Mecca is working on another settler. Damascus is about to create a second unused great scientist, so next person up should probably use at least one to rush Education and then maybe go for Liberalism for yet another scientist?
 
Sorry for not mentioning settler pair, with our econ (yes, even with a spec econ) looking that bad it didn't seem good to settle.
 
Great turns!
Just a clarification, Liberalism gets a free tech not a scientist (Physics does), but I think now's a good time to rush Education with the scientist.
 
Have briefly looked at the save. We seem to be in good shape, but as the perfectionist I have some things to say ;)

We still have no academy in Mecca, despite being in bureaucracy. I parked a GS in mecca at the end of my turn for either being used for an academy there or to lightbulb us philosophy. Instead it got settled in Damascus. I'd prefer the academy at Mecca over the settled GS, since it will give us more advantage longterm. So I would not lightbulb Education with the GS and rather build that academy. The midterm benefit will be greater overall, and nobody has paper yet so we have a good shot a liberalism.
Civics look fine, however I think it's better to spread judaism around instead of hinduism. We have the shrine of judaism but it's unlikely that we will build other shrines, so I'd love to see some more cities with the David's star.
Najran is new and would profit more from a granary instead of a lighthouse. We can speed it up with chopping the forrest on top of the hill one NE since we will chop that forest anyway.
I see Nottingham being in a 11 turns unhappieness for slavery. This might be a minor detail, but waiting one turn to get rid of the aggregated unhappieness is better imho.
Farming those river plots at Canterbury is not that good imho, working the water comes for free and the city is low on food anyway. Pre-biology those farms just bring in a lonely hammer and a single coin, a water plot brings two coins that goes through the library (and university, soon).
At Baghdad, we might have a shot at the colossus. Even if we don't finish it, we can use the money.
Building the forge at Hastings doesn't seem that good. I'd just build the courthouse, the library and cottage all those jungle tiles and let it grow. This might take some time, but it can support a lot of cottages.
Medina should be procucing military or even better workers. We deperately need more workers ! There is so much and to improve, these hindu missionaries just don't do us any good.
I also noted a few workers roading hills. It's generally a good idea to road a hill once you are on top of it, but I think the worker power could be used better elsewhere as long as we are short on workers.
Someone hired a prophet and a scientist at Mecca. I think this was a bad idea. We got and will get enough GS form Damascus and we don't need a great prophet, since we have that one shrine. A guaranteed great engineer is a cool thing on the other hand. Mecca should also build the Hanging Gardens, thats even more GE points and it's only 8 turns including the aquaeduct. The pop boost can also be put to good use, just imagine the hammers when wipping 8 times 1 pop :lol:
It also seems as if the big subcontinent at the west is empty. We might want some more explorers there to see what we can get from it, before somebody else claims it.
This may sound like a lot of criticism, but please don't take it as offend. Since this is a learning game, I write what I think can be done better, feel free to discuss, veto and/or give better propositions.

--abu
 
Hmm... I thought there was already an academy in Mecca. Good idea to build an Academy there.
You have good points. Everyone read abu's post.

Roster:
*Llama
*Cheron (up now for 10)
*Abuzeus (on deck for 10)
*Emp. Killyouall
*RKai
 
Same, I thought Damascus didn't have an academy and Mecca did, so when I did find Dam did, I just settled it. WITHOUT ANY BUILDINGS, this gives us around 2700 science (assuming we win by time- fat chance).
 
Win by time? HA! I don't think so. The game is getting good and our intrepid group of so-called "Noble Players" are already in a good score lead on Prince. You may actually win by Domination! Once you win this, it may be time to move on to Warlords 2.08 Prince (which IMO can be much tougher of course).

Speaking of which, I may have to bow out of this game. For some reason, Vanilla Civ lags like hell and some things are missing (like culture and graet persons bars) during the city screens if I load a game saved by someone else (except the GOTM, for some weird reason). It seems to work fine when I play my own saves or any games on Warlords.
 
abuzeus said:
Civics look fine, however I think it's better to spread judaism around instead of hinduism. We have the shrine of judaism but it's unlikely that we will build other shrines, so I'd love to see some more cities with the David's star.


Good points! But just a question here... does it matter that we are using the benefits of organized religion with one religion and the shrine of another religion at the same time? I was just making Hindu missionaries for the short term since we are currently Hindu, not Jewish. But we do get the Jewish shrine bonus regardless of what official religion the Civ is, right? But I do see now that spreading Judaism will increase money eventually.

Actually, I'm becoming less and less of a fan of this shrine tactic because in my games at least, it takes a lot of production + time to spread the religion. Also, you can't always have open borders with enough civs to really build up this income, and on smaller maps, I don't see that it can make that much money. It only gives 1 coin per city, right? And this new version of Civ stresses using less cities all around.
It would be more strategic, in my opinion, if capitals or certain larger cities gave you more than 1 coin if you could spread the religion there. And of course your missionaries sometimes fail to spread the religion and you lose the unit.
I should post the Anti-Shrine rant, I bet that would get some responses because I am sure no one agrees with me :crazyeye:
 
LlamaCat said:
Good points! But just a question here... does it matter that we are using the benefits of organized religion with one religion and the shrine of another religion at the same time? I was just making Hindu missionaries for the short term since we are currently Hindu, not Jewish. But we do get the Jewish shrine bonus regardless of what official religion the Civ is, right? But I do see now that spreading Judaism will increase money eventually.

Actually, I'm becoming less and less of a fan of this shrine tactic because in my games at least, it takes a lot of production + time to spread the religion. Also, you can't always have open borders with enough civs to really build up this income, and on smaller maps, I don't see that it can make that much money. It only gives 1 coin per city, right? And this new version of Civ stresses using less cities all around.
It would be more strategic, in my opinion, if capitals or certain larger cities gave you more than 1 coin if you could spread the religion there. And of course your missionaries sometimes fail to spread the religion and you lose the unit.
I should post the Anti-Shrine rant, I bet that would get some responses because I am sure no one agrees with me :crazyeye:

still lurking :
yes you can spread Judaism and hinduism, one for the money the other for the civic. It just takes double effort:mischief: .
ANd you're not the only one thinking that going for a shrine is useless.
I think going for a religion is only useful for long lasting games, since for the same effort (hammers to spread the religion), you could have built research or units.
 
LlamaCat said:
I should post the Anti-Shrine rant, I bet that would get some responses because I am sure no one agrees with me :crazyeye:
The earlier the shrine is built, the more the religion will have spread on its own. And of course, no one can say no to a free shrine, right? Even if you didn't take any effort to spread the religion that you "stolen", you're already making money.
 
Got it but it seems unlikely that I can play tonight. I can't pormise that I play tomorrow. If you are eager to play, Emp. Killyouall - do so, otherwise I'll try to play tomorrow.
 
Well, if nobody objects, I *still* would like to play my turnset... ;)

Will play tomorrow.

Any suggestions in terms of research or production?
If not, I will try my best to spread Judaism around and improve our worker-situation...
I will not found new cities right now, since we have enough on our hands with improving the existing.

p.s.: as a sidenote: I'm rather busy with university-stuff, thus I didn't participate in any discussions. I *do* read them, tho' :)
 
Do read abu's post a few posts up :thumbsup:, I think he makes good points.

Other things and summaries:
*Scientist -> Academy in Mecca (if there already is one, lightbulb education)
*Liberalism push (get Astronomy or Military Tradition or Nationalism for mileage)
 
There is already a settler built and I moved it to a suggested city spot, so I would go ahead and found that new city now. Also, Damascus should be producing another great scientist in about 2 turns, so I would use one to lightbulb Education and the 2nd can be for the academy in Mecca.
And I say go straight for Liberalism for the free tech (thanks for clarification on that Robo)
 
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