Nobles' Club 229: Hetshepsut of Egypt

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Hatshepsut of Egypt, whom we last played in NC 180; we last played the Egyptians under Ramesses II in NC 199. The Egyptians start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

• Traits: Hatshepsut is Creative and Spiritual. Creative gives every city +2 for free, and gives a +100% bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
  
• The UB: The Obelisk, a Monument with 2 Priest slots. Getting very early Great Prophets is more for the AI than the player, since the former should be left to the task of founding and spreading religions while the player builds up their empire and bulbs their way through the tech tree. But if you're looking to rush someone who hasn't build a Shrine yet early, or you want literally any Great Person for a Golden Age, or you actually do want a Great Prophet to pull some manner of clever scheme, the Obelisk will allow you to get out the required Great Person that much easier, and earlier.
  
• The UU: The War Chariot, a Chariot with 5 and innate immunity to First Strike. A straight upgrade over the basic chariot, particularly against archers, these guys stand a chance at winning fights that regular chariots don't.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Inland Sea, Medium Sealevel, Temperate Climate. As should be standard for Inland Sea maps an additional AI was added to the game for balance purposes.

Spoiler edits :

Swapped one source of Iron with one distance source of Copper to give an AI a nearby strategic resource.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 229 Hatshepsut Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

I definitely wouldn't want to SIP here, no need to ruin a perfectly good floodplain, but beyond that I'm not sure what the best move is. 1N looks very tempting, riverside plains hill, but there's no telling what's up north since the Warrior is out of position, and I'm not sure if being stuck with just floodplains for food is a good situation. Base 3 isn't much, and they take forever to farm, although we do at least start with Agriculture. And Wheel, actually, so immediate Pottery is an option, though that move makes me question how we'd get settlers and workers out. Not that many forests to chop, from the looks of it. Than again it's not as if a plains Cow is ever going to be more than 3, either.

I'd say move the Warrior NW, since south of the hill chain there's some Tundra poking out (might be difficult to see in the screenshot, but easy to see ingame) and that's not worth scouting regardless, and if he reveals food to the west move 1N and settle. If there's no food...move 1N anyway and decide from there? I'm not sure if plains cow is worth what would have to be given up to grab it. What do the experts think?

 

[Snowbird]

I'd simply move warrior 1S. Gives most info on turn 1.

 

[sampsa]

Yeh, warrior 1S and unless it reveals something 2E1S of settler, settle 1N.

 

[Harv]

@Gumbolt and @sampsa - I laughed when I saw this NC. It’s on my phone, so it’s harder to see the map.

 

[sampsa]

Also, save pls?

 

[elementoffear]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Hatshepsut of Egypt, whom we last played in NC 180; we last played the Egyptians under Ramesses II in NC 199. The Egyptians start with Agriculture and The Wheel.

• Traits: Hatshepsut is Creative and Spiritual. Creative gives every city +2 for free, and gives a +100% bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
  
• The UB: The Obelisk, a Monument with 2 Priest slots. Getting very early Great Prophets is more for the AI than the player, since the former should be left to the task of founding and spreading religions while the player builds up their empire and bulbs their way through the tech tree. But if you're looking to rush someone who hasn't build a Shrine yet early, or you want literally any Great Person for a Golden Age, or you actually do want a Great Prophet to pull some manner of clever scheme, the Obelisk will allow you to get out the required Great Person that much easier, and earlier.
  
• The UU: The War Chariot, a Chariot with 5 and innate immunity to First Strike. A straight upgrade over the basic chariot, particularly against archers, these guys stand a chance at winning fights that regular chariots don't.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Inland Sea, Medium Sealevel, Temperate Climate. As should be standard for Inland Sea maps an additional AI was added to the game for balance purposes.

Spoiler edits :

Swapped one source of Iron with one distance source of Copper to give an AI a nearby strategic resource.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 229 Hatshepsut Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

Thanks @AcaMetis , but it looks like you forgot to upload the actual save

 

[AcaMetis]

Also, save pls?

Thanks @AcaMetis , but it looks like you forgot to upload the actual save

Of course I forgot something . Saves have been added to the OP .

 

[sampsa]

Oh also, missed the brown cow, so not so convinced anymore that 1N is the best.

 

[sampsa]

so immediate Pottery is an option, though that move makes me question how we'd get settlers and workers out.

Yeh, I think pottery first is more of a meme than anything else. Since a faster 2nd city wins even (and a lot of /), those early cottages are simply not competitive at all.

 

[Major Tom]

Think warrior hill 1SE. PH 2E1S of warrior might be an option for settlement. West looks brown and ugly. I like to have cows in play, thinking AH and horses and war chariots.

 

[Jellybug]

Spoiler When the go pro is on and the whole room is chanting your name it's time to nut up and race :

off the edge of the world

 

[elmurcis]

No Fish? What is this?

Spoiler :

Oh, never mind... T16 and finally found Fish - me happy now!

Spoiler :

Holy Crab, DoW from somebody with who I got border tensions (-2... that AI loves settling next to border and blaming me for that!!!), having 3 villages, peaceful expansion along the coast but no WC was not best idea ; lets go for 2nd try with tiny bit different city placement and big stick in mind

 

[Excal]

Immortal Difficulty with no Huts no Events

T117 50AD

Spoiler :

Tech: Pott > AniHusb > Mine > Bronze > Write > Aesth (trade alpha and backfill)

Looks like Inland Sea ? - my neighbours are Pleased
Linc/Asoka universally hated
Food is a bit sparse
Quite a lot barb spears
I am a bit behind in Tech

built GrLib
got Music GrArt - Would you use it now ? or Wait ?
(usually I would try Lib (Nat) and use GrArt to help accelerate build Taj (got marble))

some Parth failgold and NatEpic failgold
probably run merchants in Ligurian (eventual Nat Epic here), build HorArch and upgrade Cuirs

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Too bad I don't have time to play this one. After suffering from Apostolic Palace nonsense last game I wanted to do a religious victory myself and the Egypt UB is suited for this.

@Excal

Spoiler :

National Epic failgold? I thought it's a national wonder? Also I count five (5) types of food. Health shouldn't be a problem right?

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

You can get failgold from any Wonder, World or National, if you invest hammers into it in places before it's completed elsewhere. The caveats with using National wonders for this is that you must be the one to complete the wonder somewhere, since every civ has their own set of national wonders, and you can't get failgold from the Palace, since you're always allowed to build and complete it in multiple cities.

 

[earthy]

haven't played civ4 in a bit but this one looked like a fun game to come back to.. i wanted to get some war chariots out and kill a neighbor, but

Spoiler :

by t50 I had three barb spears on my borders and was woefully unprepared for that . why are there so many barb spears on this map?

 

[dr£ddlord]

I'm struggling on this map.

Spoiler :

Played a few times already. Took out Gilamesh and Huyna Capac but Asoka got huge and Joao started repeatedly stacking units at my border and then DOWing me. Asoka was about a thousand points ahead and Joao was ahead on tech with destroyers and anti tanks against my cavalry stack. I think my problem is lack of happiness resources. There is Ivory by Inca, there is fur slightly south, and there is one incence and there is some wine but Asoka had gems and gold by him. Seems like a hard map anyway.

 

[elementoffear]

What? Victory!!!! This was unexpected...

Spoiler :

Well this is a surprise, the game started as any other and finding the bronze meant I settled a city near it in the west, then another in the east so I get a nice piece of land to work with. But then , contemplating a rush I was researching aesthetics for trade, and having the marble I said, why not, and tried a few wonders. Low and behold I manage building a few, and getting failgold for the Masonary ones, and for some reason I find myself continuing this path. Got the Parthenon, got GLib, got Sistine chapel (first to music), got great lighthouse and Mausoleum. Then I realize I am playing hatty so lean into it, get lots of gp points , bulb techs or run golden ages, until first to lib, take nationalizm, build the tag and from that basically run the culture slider. Now, realizing where this is headed I just make sure the neighbors are all super happy with me, giving them anything they need, techs resources , any demands. I build 3 more cities totalling 6, so there are 3 that can help make a little commerce, and after a cathedral just try and make great artist for culture bombs. Game starts going fast, hitting next turn over and over, avoiding wars. Its getting close, people start building spaceships, and Gilgamesh starts shooting nukes at Asoka, missiles are flying and I am just keeping my head low, being nice and slowly working the culture. Couple cities want to rebel into my empire but I drop them, I dont see the benefit to it. Finally manage the win (not a great score), it is my favorite type of win, although not a great game, building more cathedrals and better commerce would make this much quicker. great fun! peacefull game, and honestly I am not sure how I would manage wars in it.

Thanks again @AcaMetis

 

[prettification]

Its Prince level (Im a noob).

Spoiler :

I used chariots to cripple and immobilize huaynac capac in the west. I have waited up to now (roughly turn 230) to snatch his territory (I had basically morphed him into a free lunch) so as not to overexpand and shoot my economy (dont know if it was a good idea). I had already a good chunk of land (including the south of his land) and wanted to keep up in techs.

I am aiming for a scientific victory (never won one, only military victories in the past). Turn 235 Im the biggest one on the map (still have to develop the newly conquered territory = 4 new cities). I am the tech leader, rushed physics, got 2 great scientists sleeping for bulbing, so I deem space quite achievable.

the problem is I dont know what to do. Ive never played for space and I have almost never got to the modern era.

I know that I must build (and research) the parts. Space elevator seems a must. It looks like one must have to have research cities AND severall production cities at one's disposal for the parts' construction (which I will have).
But its very likely that I am missing something hence I am asking now if there are basic staple guidelines Ihat I must follow to succeed in the enterprise? (just very general and unavoidable things dont lose your time with my noobiness

Thanks