Nobles' Club CIX: Louis XIV of France

[on_land]

Immortal 1852 Cultural Victory

Spoiler :

This is the first time I attempted a cultural victory, since I saw that was what everyone else went for. Well, I tried once a while back when I was playing Prince, but lost interest in the game and never found out if I was on the right track. Anyway, I read the guide linked above about halfway through this, found out I should have been going for commerce in the cities, oops.

Well the first three cities I founded became the legendary cities. Paris was settled on the sugar, which made for tons of cottages, but low production. I built the Oracle there and took CoL because there were no religions on my continent yet. Orleans was settled for the copper and was a kind of crappy production city: good short term for barb defenses but couldn't grow much till civil service. This place slow-built the mids and got them very late, it could have been just fail gold. Lyons was to the southeast on the coast settled for two corn. This was a kind of crappy GP farm, with only two good food tiles to work, but the nice thing was it had a lot of production too so it could periodically break to build NE and cathedrals and such quickly.

Mansa founded Christianity, Taoism, and Islam, but only the first one spread to me, even as I settled two cities on his border with open arms. So I only had two religions, which was annoying. Paris had the GLib, and I would have been able to bulb philosophy and get taoism, but I popped a low odds prophet instead of a scientist at that point. Did bulb education to beat Mansa to lib only because he went for engineering and lots of other random stuff while I beelined. He was way ahead of me and Pericles was way behind me in tech, made trading complicated. Took nationalism per the guide, and went free speech. The others got way ahead in tech, and I seemed hundreds of turns from my goal, but everyone stayed peaceful. I kept slow teching through salons + mercantilism + biology and this combo gave me the GA's I needed to finish. Asoka had built two spaceship parts, Mansa had only finished apollo.

I can definitely see the allure of the culture game. Lots of planning, lots of time spent under 10k culture, then suddenly it all pays off as you surge to the goal over the last 40 turns. Took much less playing time than a domination game, where I agonize over every unit movement, lol.

took 2 pics along the way

Spoiler :

 

[MrKlew]

@MrKlew

1110 AD on Prince and AI still hasn't gotten Parthenon yet?

Yeah, the wonder building by the AIs has been remarkably slow. I actually got fail gold for Parthenon when I discovered the tech to obsolete it. Maybe the barbarians will build it. Probably been bad for my game as it has been too tempting to wonder whore.

 

[dalamb]

Speaking of wonderwhoring, I have a guide to choosing wonders in my .sig. I haven't reviewed and updated it for a while; maybe some of you would consider commenting on it.

 

[Doshin]

Speaking of wonderwhoring, I have a guide to choosing wonders in my .sig. I haven't reviewed and updated it for a while; maybe some of you would consider commenting on it.

I'd like to see the Globe Theater in the Conquest section, since whipping and drafting are by far the cheapest and easiest way to raise troops. I've had upwards of 300 turns of unhappiness in my Globe site before.

I'd also remove the SoZ from this section. I might even go so far as to argue that you actually want the AI to build this wonder, because it means that their hammers are not going towards units or research. The Kremlin is a much, much more useful wonder for the warmonger.

On the Space Elevator, I think the maths has been done and it has been definitively proven to slow down any space attempt.

The Red Cross definitely doesn't help with a space race (6x hospitals + the wonder itself for 1 scientist GPP. Not a good deal).

 

[DanielTorrence]

settling on sugar seems like strongest play here.

..tried yesterday min->bw before pottery on monarch and it worked.

I agree with settling on the sugar, but since when are you playing monarch, I thought you mostly do immortal games?

 

[on_land]

Speaking of wonderwhoring, I have a guide to choosing wonders in my .sig. I haven't reviewed and updated it for a while; maybe some of you would consider commenting on it.

agree with doshin's comments above, i think of globe theater as more of a war building. i might put oracle (many strategies) and great library (bulb the lib race) in the widely useful category, while i rarely build oxford, only if i see i will have to tech beyond, say, communism, since the 6 universities cost so many hammers. i think of pyramids as more dependent on having stone/industrial than on the victory condition, and same for taj mahal (marble).

 

[ben-jammin]

I'm pretty much destroying this map on immortal. Is it just me?

Spoiler :

I actually thought Mansa didnt have any metal, so I oracled HBR. Turns out he did but didnt bother to build his first spears and axes 'til it was waaay too late. I faced a single spearman. How is that possible? He wasnt building wonders instead, unfortunately.

 

[The Oz-Man]

I'd like to see the Globe Theater in the Conquest section, since whipping and drafting are by far the cheapest and easiest way to raise troops. I've had upwards of 300 turns of unhappiness in my Globe site before.

To add to this, I think most people run Caste System for the late game in culture games, which lessens the appeal of the Globe Theater's artist slots (though it does give artist GPP and isn't too hard to get in a culture game since you'll be building some theaters anyway). I definitely prefer GT in warmonger games since having a food-heavy city to whip/draft to death is a straightforward path to victory.

 

[Izuul]

Immortal 1830 Cultural

Spoiler :

This was the first time I've ever even attempted a cultural victory. I wasn't planning to do it from the start, but everyone else was doing it so i thought i would take a stab at it. I also realized that the map was huge and would take a lot of effort to conquer.

I had one scary moment when Asoka, of all people, declared war on me and landed a couple of cavs and an artillery on my coast. Fortunately, Mansa killed those units for me, and i was then able to just spam a bunch of longbows and pikes to hold his main stack off just long enough to get some gold and pay him off.

Things i could have done better... It took me too long to get all of the religions spread around and temples built. I also didn't have 3 cities set up well to go for culture. My capital was good since it was cottaged out for Bureau, but my other cities were mostly food/production and none had been running artists. Both of these things could have been done better if i had planned to go for culture from the beginning.

I got Lib and Nationalism at 500 AD which was pretty decent i think.

 

[vranasm]

I agree with settling on the sugar, but since when are you playing monarch, I thought you mostly do immortal games?

well I mostly don't play civ now at all... but technically yes...if I would take civ as serious business I would be now trying to micromanage myself through to win some Deity games aside from the small map AP cheese I did in HOF.

I feel like sometimes it's better to show players what they can achieve on their difficulty level with playing their difficulty level and regularly play "low level" games if I like the mapscript/start/leader.

you know there is the point of "whoa how that grashopa made 10 cities, oracle CS by 300 BC?" thingy, it motivated me a lot in the past to try mimick his strategy/gameplay...

 

[dalamb]

Thanks for the comments about wonderspamming; I've updated the article.

 

[Kewko]

Hi guys, this is my 1st time doing a map from this forum and was just wondering how I'm doing so far. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

I'm playing on Noble difficulty (no huts save) and at 900bc at the moment.

Key events so far:

Spoiler :

Key: 2s,2w = 2 south,2 west
2n,2e = 2 north, 2 east

4000bc - Settled 1 north after checking 1 sw with warrior - Tech plan > Pottery, Mining, Bronze Working
3320bc - Contact with Mansa Musa
3240bc - Contact with Pericles
2600bc - Settled 2nd City on the Copper 4n,2w of Paris
1880bc - Settled 3rd City On Plains Hill (Coastal) 2s,3e of Paris
1600bc - Tech - Alphabet Complete
1560bc - Unknown built Stonehenge
1040bc - Settled 4th City on Grassland Hill 3n,3e of Paris
0925bc - Settled 5th City on Grassland (River, Coastal) 4s,2w of Paris
0900bc - Settled 6th City on Grassland Hill (River) 0n,6w of Paris
0900bc - Tech Update - (no particular order) Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Writing, Mathematics, Alphabet
0900bc - Current Tech - Aesthetics, (5) @ 70%, -5gpt Treasury 31g

I've attached a screenshot of my game at 900bc.

 

[DanielTorrence]

you know there is the point of "whoa how that grashopa made 10 cities, oracle CS by 300 BC?" thingy, it motivated me a lot in the past to try mimick his strategy/gameplay...

That is a good point, motivating other players. I learned a lot from Kossins playthroughs and still watch AZs videos for both practise and entertainment. Unfortunatly, a game in civ takes more time then I can usually spare right now...

 

[MrKlew]

Culture Victory 1932, not bad for me, my 3rd best time and fastest culture victory. Still others can clearly do better, so how could I improve?

Spoiler :

Some things I think I would do differently
I didn't realize theaters are the only building that allow you to run artists. I probably should have stayed in caste system and just used theaters to deal with the emancipation unhappiness.

I should have focused on building those temples earlier, I just get nervous not having much of a military

I started upping the culture slider after liberalism, but didn't go all out until radio. I know a lot of people promote going all out after liberalism, but it seems like a long time to go without any teching, I could have stopped running scientists and put in artists in the capital earlier too, but again no tech. The broadcast towers were very helpful, not only for the +50% culture but also two more artist slots. So I'm still torn on this one.

I also popped a few useless great people, a merchant and a great spy late. I suppose I should have run only artists, but then what to do with the extra GP slots?

 

[MilesBeyond]

Culture Victory 1932, not bad for me, my 3rd best time and fastest culture victory. Still others can clearly do better, so how could I improve?

Spoiler :

Some things I think I would do differently
I didn't realize theaters are the only building that allow you to run artists. I probably should have stayed in caste system and just used theaters to deal with the emancipation unhappiness.

I should have focused on building those temples earlier, I just get nervous not having much of a military

I started upping the culture slider after liberalism, but didn't go all out until radio. I know a lot of people promote going all out after liberalism, but it seems like a long time to go without any teching, I could have stopped running scientists and put in artists in the capital earlier too, but again no tech. The broadcast towers were very helpful, not only for the +50% culture but also two more artist slots. So I'm still torn on this one.

I also popped a few useless great people, a merchant and a great spy late. I suppose I should have run only artists, but then what to do with the extra GP slots?

Some tips for you:

Spoiler :

Yes, ALWAYS run CS when you're going for culture victory. Caste System, Free Speech and Pacifism are your three indispensible civics, IMHO. Rep is nice (4 beakers from Artists) but not essential. There's some debate as to whether the free Artist from Merc or the extra trade route from FM is more beneficial - I believe it's largely situational. However, it's fairly common to get a culture victory without getting Economics, or even Banking - sometimes Econ civics don't even come into play.


It's easy to get nervous as culture games usually involves having a low, if not the lowest, power rating. Diplomacy skills are often what will keep you alive. Another solution is to found an extra, hammer-heavy city (either your 7th or your 10th, depending on if you want triple-cathedrals or not) and simply have it constantly producing military units. Build a Barracks, maybe a Stable, Heroic Epic when applicable, and just Alt-Click Axeman or Horse Archer or what have you and let it alone. Such an approach, however, can be a non-trivial drain on your economy - especially with Pacifism. It's best to avoid war through diplomacy, whenever possible.

When to kill the Research slider is a matter of some debate. Some people say Edu-Lib-Nationalism (free tech)-done, I personally prefer to get Printing Press as well (easy enough if you've got a GS around). Others prefer to tech a bit further; perhaps Banking-Economics to get Econ civics, or even as far as Corporation to build Wall Street (though Culture games usually don't go that far). Others still kill it after Rifling, so they can defend themselves.

In the end, it's up to you. I will say this: If you've got Philosophy, Music, Liberalism, and Nationalism, all the ingredients you need for a culture victory are there. What you research afterwards is up to you.

In most culture games, I'll have a science city running throughout. This allows me to pop a few Great Scientists, who make the road to Liberalism MUCH shorter, as well as allowing me to still have decent tech rate once I kill my research slider. Sometimes it will even be one of my Legendary cities.

With the combination of Broadcast Towers and corps, late game certainly has a lot of opportunities for cultural victory. It'll leave you with a crappy score, but is score really what you're playing for?

Great Merchants aren't useless, as a trade mission will allow you to run 100% culture for a while, which depending on your setup can be even more valuable than a culture bomb. I would say that while Great Artists are your #1 GP, Great Scientists and Great Merchants are still useful to have around. Great Engineers can be good to grab a couple of wonders you might not be capable of winning otherwise (MoM and Notre Dame come to mind). Great Spies are only good for GA fodder, though.

Some debate as to Great Prophets. With culture games being so religion-heavy, the notion of a shrine becomes appealing. It mostly depends on if you found any religions (you can usually expect to get Taoism, though not always) as the odds of you taking anyone else's holy city are slim to none, but if you can, shrine income can be a life-saver - at the risk of GPP pollution.

 

[Kewko]

Won a Culture victory in 1836

 

[vranasm]

can someone explain to me why so many culture victories here? Is it because it was advertised that Louis is good leader for culture even if it isn't true at all?

 

[cseanny]

Culture is NOT a victory, but rather, a mistake, lol .

 

[MrKlew]

can someone explain to me why so many culture victories here? Is it because it was advertised that Louis is good leader for culture even if it isn't true at all?

Certainly it was billed as such. And I think the map was rigged for it. There was lots of space to expand peacefully, meaning a rush would have been difficult since the opponenets were far away. Most of the AIs were on other land masses meaning a military victory would have required a pretty large intercontinental invasion. I suppose you could have done a late medieval/renaissance war to secure the continent and go for space, although there weren't a lot of really great production sites on our continent.

 

[dalamb]

I don't think I'd agree with "rigged" but it was certainly "designed" to allow the Salon to make a little more sense towards a cultural victory; you can check the discussion in the bullpen thread. I've also described how the other map properties you mention came about in an earlier spoilered post.

The comment about "intercontinental invasion" leads me to post another query in the bullpen thread about preferred map types.