Non-Midas With A Vengeance - The Conquests Rematch

I must say that my turn convinced me that early contact is extremely powerful. I suspect that this beats any other method in terms of ease of keeping up with the AI in tech (until they all get contact).

Why does the FP want to be close to the Palace? I noticed it doesn't make a second core, but the FP city itself seems to have little corruption. For that reason farther away is better in that it makes a corrupt city good (rather than not changing a non-corrupt city by much). Is the reason to put it close simply so we can build it faster, or is there another affect I am not aware of? Changes are always so confusing :crazyeye:

Our position is definitely strong. Even ruining our rep might not kill us at this point, though it would certainly make things harder.
 
It really depends on what type of win condition you are after. If military and you'll be taking new lands it is good for the FP to be close to 1st palace. Then you can jump palace around to where you see fit to boost production in that area. Take over next group of lands and jump palace again, etc. If looking to just set up 2 cores and going for diplo or peaceful game I would set up FP where I want 2nd core to be. Start a war and cross fingers for leader. Then settle in to building and improving 2 cores.
 
Afaik the FP doesn't act as a 2nd core anymore. And -also afaik- tests have shown that a FP on relatively close distance is a good idea.

And I couldn't agree more about early contact Greebly :) Seafaring ROCKS. And oh, just wait when our free tech comes... that will give us an ernormous boost again :)

EDIT: Greebly, regarding our rep... I know that you don't mean to say that we can be more careless, but still I want to add a remark as a reminder for all. We want to win the Space Race, so we still should watch out. Nad already pointed out that the later Industrial Age and Modern Age might be most problematic in this variant with a broken rep. I think he is correct.
 
I just started to play my turns today morning. I will finish them today but I have a question.

As I see I have two choices.

(a) I can sell LIt for cheap and get CoL and start on Republic full speed. When we do get Republic we can sell it for everything else.

(b) Not sell Lit and wait for a 2-fer. But without having much cash and Construction and Currency being such expensive techs I doubt I will be able to do any 2-fers.

So I am thinking about doing the unusual (a) here. What do you guys think?
 
I think (a) would be my choice as well. We are doing well in tech and have a strong economy and can afford to trade now. I would also research Republic at full speed as well (Not a 50 turn gambit). If we happen to get it first, we will be able to trade it for anything out there. If we don't get there first, it will be cheaper to research or buy. In either case, getting to republic soonest seems best to me.
 
NMT2730BC.JPG


Here is the save

Otherwise a very uneventful set of turns. Highlights follow soon.
 
(a) We have traded Lit for CoL and lots of gold. Gave that gold away pretty evenly among everybody.

(b) Started full speed at Republic.

(c) Germany learnt Construction and Inca learnt Monarchy on the same turn. Impossible to trade. They wouldn't part with it for anything. Nobody else learnt anything.

(d) A Russian settler landed on our shore at the southern tip. They are still standing there. Don't know why.

(e) Libraries in core cities are finished. Varma should be churning out workers. I created about three or four workers. We need many more of them.
 
Next up is Meli.

Meli...UP NOW
Nad...ON DECK
 
Pre-Turn ( 730BC) - Minor MM. Heraclea rax vetoed, switched to harbor. Also Dyrrachium switched to spear.

Turn 01 - ( 710BC) - Caerarea library -> temple (will switch to horsemen). Trade everything (CoL, Lit, MM, Maths and Philo) to Incans for Monarchy and 5 gold. Trade Monarchy to germans for Construction and 9 gold. Give the Incans 9 gold. I will wait til we research republic until we revolt.

Turn 02 - ( 690BC) - Switch Trebizond to spear (it was empty? Lets not give anyone any ideas huh)

IT - Indians are building Hanging gardens. Incans are building TGL.

Turn 03 - ( 670BC) - Adrianopole Temple -> barracks. Trebizond spear -> barracks. Horses are connected. Caesarea switched to horseman.

IT - Spain demands Construction? Blow me... Oops, war. War happiness breaks out :goodjob:

Turn 04 - ( 650BC) - Constantinopole temple -> horse. Smyrna walls? -> barracks. Oops spot that heraclea is also empty... switch to spear. Wow. I can only suggest an MA against the Spanish with the Russians? Is that right? Only MA's with people that have met them? Very nice tweak there, was it that way in PTW? Anyway Lux tax down to 10% fire the scientist in Adrianopole and set him to work in the fields. Republic in 8turns at 70%, +1gpt.

Turn 05 - ( 630BC) - Research up to 80% briefly running at -6gpt. We have 8 gold.

IT - Persians drop off a warrior near Heraclea. We have single warrior there and no hope of reinforcement next turn. Oh.

Turn 06 - ( 610BC) - Constantinople horse -> horse. Caesarea horse -> horse. Varna worker -> worker. Gift Persia +1gpt. Our curragh vaguely scratches the paintwork of a spanish Galley :(

IT - Persians declare war... and take heraclea defeating our lone warrior... We should take it back soon though.

Turn 07 - ( 590BC) - Dyrrachium spear -> spear. Nobody will join our fight. People dont know or dont wanna fight the persians or spanish. More galleys are coming...

IT - Persians put more troops into Heraclea, 2 spears :( 2 spanish warriors wander out of the fog near Heraclea.

Turn 08 - ( 570BC) - We kill one spear and are forced to retreat from the other. Chalcedon switched to Horseman. Trebizond switched to horseman.

IT - Ooops more Persians coming... Persians attack a horse and retreat it. Attack the other 1hp horse and die :P Palace upgrade. 2 spanish warriors are outside Dyrrachium.

Turn 09 - ( 550BC) - Constantinople, Adrianopole and Chalcedon all build horses, start more. Naissus completes harbor starts Dromon. Hmm republic next turn. Reduce research to 10%, lux to 10%. +42gpt. wierd. Darn that explains it. Russians have Republic :( Anyway Attack persian warrior in open with 2hp elite horse. Wins. No Leader. Other Horseman retires to Dyrrachium.

IT - 2 spanish warriors kill themselves on our spear at Dyrrachium better. More spanish galleys and persian galleys. Palace upgrade.

Turn 10 - ( 530BC) - Republic -> Currency. I cant revolt yet. I leave it to popular thought. We erm have found a ourselves in a little hole ;) Caesarea horse -> horse. Loss a vet horse attacking a spear in Heraclea. Pay Bismark republic to Ally vs the persians, get 6 gold change. Research to 80% at -1gpt. Currency in 11 (our last AA tech!) Pay Incans republic for MA vs Spain. Get 26 gold change. We have the opportunity to get a lux trade with the Russians I leave it for the next player. Also Nad? You have 80 gold to use as you will ;) Sorry about the worker near Sardica I didnt realise that the persians were landing horses now :(

I chicken out at 10 turns :P

Melifluous

THE SAVE
 
Hmmm. Interesting? :D

Got it, Persian souffle with Spanish dressing coming right up :p
 
NMTWAV

It appears we're in a war situation that is unpleasant rather than truly dangerous. At this early stage we would rather have avoided war but it's not to be. The biggest danger now would be a dogpile, but since we control contacts at the moment we should be able to prevent that fro happening. Allying with Germany was a very good move as that is the one civ we do not want to ally against us, but I would not have allied with the Inca; the war against Spain is largely phoney as they're far away and can only land a few galleys worth of troops. As it is , we're tied in to an alliance for 20 turns where we would prefer to make peace asap, since the longer war rages the greater the chance of other civs joining in.

As it is, I think our aim now should be to fight the 20 turns, recapture our city and make peace so we can resume our building.

Inherited Turn, 510BC: I decide not to make the lux deal with Russia as I'm unsure of the route and don't want t risk our reputation.

Made a few switches just for preference in dealing with the invasions: Nicaea to library (under heavy pressure from Germany), Amorium to harbour, Caesarea to spear at 7spt, and Constantinople to swords for heavier firepower.

Micromanagement is very good, used the surplus gold to upgrade a regular warrior and then gifted Germany 10g.


IT: Our horse near Heraclea defeats the attacking Persia warrior but then falls to the Persian horse. The good news is that our worker is safe for the moment. The bad news is that Sardica isn't, because the Persian horse can now reach it in one turn from Heraclea if it ignores the worker, and it is defended by just a regular warrior with no chance of immediate reinforcement.

Galleys move.


Constantinople sword ----------> sword
Varna worker ----------> barracks
Nicomedia spear ----------> worker

Palace expanded


Turn 1, 490BC: I think the best bet to save Sardica would be to go on the offensive and try to capture Heraclea this turn, wiping out the Persian units. Unfortunately I'm not sure exactly how many units the Persians have in Heraclea. Hmm, tough decision. I think I have to go for it, so...

vet horse attacks regular spear...and dies, doing just 1 damage and promoting the spear to veteran. Even worse, there is another spear beneath it :( There goes that plan, as we physically don't have enough units that can attack and capture Heraclea this turn. Looks like Sardca could be in trouble...except that I try this gambit:


ProtectingSardica.jpg



I move the warrior defending it out of the city and onto the road in neutral territory between Heraclea and Sardica. This means that the Persian horse cannot reach Heraclea in one turn without fighting the warrior, and if it does that, it can't capture the city! For good measure I leave the worker out behind the warrior as added bait. Meanwhile a spear moves along the road so that it can reach Sardica next turn. Of course, if the Persians have two horses....

Lux to 10%, moving troops around, gift 1g to Bismarck



IT: good news and bad news again. The good news is that the Pesians only have the one horse. The bad news is that it kills the warrior (losing 1 HP) and the Spanish land two warriors next to the (currently undefended) Sardica.

Adrianople horse ----------> horse



Turn 2, 470BC: lots of moving around. Barracks whipped in Sardica and Septum.


IT: spear in Sardica defeats the first Spanish warrior, losing 1HP, but then, rather unluckily, loses against the 2nd reg warrior although it redlines it in the process. Sardica falls but should be recaptured shortly.


German troops are on their way to help us.

Constantinople sword ----------> horse
Caesarea spear ----------> horse
Septum barracks ----------> worker

Berlin completes the Great Wall.


Turn 3, 450BC: reg warrior defeats the redlined Spanish warrior to recapture Sardica, start on worker.

Attack Heraclea also this turn: vet sword dies to vet spear, inflicting only 1 damage; vet horse then retreats from reg spear doing 0 damage; vet horse dies to reg spear doing only 1 damage :mad: horrible results so far. Veteran horse kills 3HP spear (about time!), reg archer then kills 2HP spear, and Heraclea is left defended by a 3HP horse. We have no more units to attack this turn but the city should fall next turn.

Vet sword kills reg archer in the open outside Heraclea.

War happiness has ended. Lux to 20%, science to 60%. Taxman still needed in Adrianople.

Nicaea's library is whipped, Smyrna's barracks is part-whipped.


IT: Spanish drop off a warrior and spear

Nicaea library ----------> barracks


Turn 4, 430BC: Heraclea is finally recaptured as 3HP sword kills veteran horse. Start on worker. Now it's just a case of picking off invaders until we can make peace after our alliances end.


We can sell incense to Germany (safe route). We cannot sell silks, however, which would suggest that the Germans have a source somewhere under the fog; we control all visible sources of the luxes on our continent, so that is a big bonus.

Sell incense to Germany for a handy 5g + 8gpt.

Science to 70%, Adrianople's taxman changed to entertainer at size 9.


IT: Spanish drop off more troops and there are lots of galleys floating around, so we must remain vigilant.

Constantinople horse ----------> collosseum - we are hurting for happiness, so this could complete, or, if we get currency in time, it can act as a placeholder for a marketplace.
Adrianople sword ----------> horse


Turn 5, 410BC: poor combat results continue as a vet sword dies attacking a reg spear on flatlands, doing only 1 damage. Second sword kills the spear, and 3HP horse kills a Spanish warrior.

Moving troops around, decide to switch Dyracchium to settler to form another fishing village in the tundra.

Lux to 30% as Constantinople grows, Adrianople's entertainer back to work. Science to 60%.


IT: Persians drop off units; our horse with the help of archer bombard, kills attacking Spanish warrior. Many German troops are now in our lands. On the one hand their help against infiltrators would be appreciated, on the other hand I'm rather nervous of the consequences of a betrayal.


Turn 6, 390BC: Mainly moving troops.

Sell philosophy to Gandhi for 65g + 4gpt. Use the cash to upgrade reg warrior in Constantinople.


IT: Persians attack Heraclea with a spear (!) and then a warrior, both are killed by our swordsman, who promotes to veteran.

Arabia demands writing...as it is a rather outdated tech and I don't want to get embroiled in another war which can have no possible value for us, I give it. Unless I hold a tech at monopoly, I very rarely refuse ancient age demands on deity (or even emperor).

As there are no more Persian troops in our lands the German troops head back.


Adrianople sword ----------> collosseum
Adrianople borders expand
Caesarea sword ----------> aqueduct
Nicaea borders expand
Trebizond horse ----------> Forbidden Palace; this city is now a high prioirty for worker attention: it needs first pick of tiles, the floodplains need to be irrigated and the iron hill mined.
Chalcedon horse ----------> harbour


Turn 7, 370BC: elite horse attacks Spanish reg spear, retreats doing 0 damage. Covered with sword and archer.

I'm now keeping troops close to all coastal cities since there are galleys floating around looking for weak points.

Germany and Russia are now in the Middle Ages, we'll be there in 2 turns, can't buy currency just yet without messing with lux rates.

Gift Inca 4g


Turn 8, 350BC: Inca and Persia are now also in the middle ages, so I sell literature to Gandhi for 30g and can now buy currency from Inca for just 12g (we were 1 turn away from research). We draw monotheism as our free tech.

Checking around, Germany and Russia both have this and are up engineering. The Incans lack monotheism. Persia lacks monotheism and republic but is up engineering. If we weren't at war we could trade for engineering with Persia.

Set research to feudalism.

Switch Constantinople and Adrianople to markets.

Rather than give away our surplus gold I use one of the tricks that was mentioned at the end of NMT1: I "sell" Russia 22g for 1gpt! :goodjob:


IT: Persians request audience, refused.


Turn 9, 330BC: Vet sword kills Spanish reg spear but is redlined in the process. For now there are no more enemy ground troops in our lands, although I'm concerned that the Germans have 4 units fortified in our lands. I'm hoping it's just AI tardiness rather than a precursor to a sneak attack.

We can now sell silks to Inca but I'm holding off in case of trade route troubles. Besides they can only offer gold, not much gpt, so we wouldn't have much to do with the cash anyway.


IT: Most of the German units move out (relief). Palace expanded. Moscow completes the Great Library.


Turn 10, 310BC: handing over to the next player.

Things are fairly quiet on the war front, although there are galleys floating around. We have enough troops to cope comfortably for the moment. We've got 2g, -1gpt with luxes at 30% and science at 70%. This might be a good time to revolt, as we have a net surplus coming in from other civs, but that's up to the next player.


The Save
 
Glad to see the war came out well for us. Our position of owning all the land in the S and having only one front is really good. It will be hard for anyone to be a serious military threat.

Looking at the save, revolting seemed sensible to me. Only problem will be deciding what to use 13 gold for every turn while in Anarchy :D

Our current deals with Germany run out in 14 turns or so. We probably won't be ready for a war that soon, but we might want to let the deals expire rather than renew as I think they are the best target to go for next (and probably don't want to wait 34 turns).
 
The combined forces of India and Inca are scary :eek: Not only do they have the same colour, they also almost have the same name. Way to go Firaxis :rolleyes:

NMT2histograph1.jpg


Got it. I will probably revolt. Good to see that Persia has something to offer (Engineering). Let's hope that that opportunity is still there when we make peace...
 
IHT: We are at war, but I decide to revolt now. I draw 7 turns :(

IT: Hamburg in Germany finishes the Hanging Gardens. The Spanish drop off a spear and a warrior north of Heracla.

Turn 1 (290 BC) An elite horse kills the spear and a regular archer promotes when killing a warrior.

Turn 2 (270 BC) :sleep:

Turn 3 (250 BC) I give the Inca Monotheism, 20 gold and 5 gpt for Engineering.

Turn 4 (230 BC) :sleep:

IT: Spain and Inca sign peace. Russia and Germany get a MA vs Pesia :D

Turn 5 (210 BC) Costantinople: market due to forest chop->harbor. I sign straight peace with Spain. I can't get anything useful, except money. And that is not allowed. I give her 10 gold.

Turn 6 (190 BC) :sleep:

IT: India demands curry, no Currency. I say no. We are at war with India.

Turn 7 (170 BC) We are a republic. Luxry goes to 20%, science to 40%. We make 9 pgt and Feudalism is in 13. Arabia gets 10 gold.

Turn 8 (150 BC) Nicomedia: worker->library. Worker hurried in Heraclea.

Turn 9 (130 BC) Constantinople: harbor->horse. Heraclea: worker->library. Dyrrachium: settler->library. Septum: worker->library. Amorium: harbor->library. Russia knows Feudalism, so we now only need 9 turns to get it.

Turn 10 (110 BC) Smyrna: barracks->library. Sardica: worker->libary. Naissus: dromon->dromon.

I cancel the MA with Germany. They have another MA vs Persia, that is a kind of an insurrance. Germany has Feudalism as well.

The settler goes to the spot south of Naissus. I have seen no Persian or Indian troops during my turns. Persia must be busy with Germany and Russia.
Normally I would have made peace with Persia, but our dromon could go looking for a Persian or Indian ship. A golden age at this moment would be a good thing!

110 BC save
 
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