Noob Starting Maps/Opponents

[Weaves]

Hello All,

This is my first Civ game owned. I have been able to pick up most tips from the Stratgey guide (thanks). However, I seem to have a problem when it comes to dominating the game in later stages(Noble).

Here is what I thought would be best setup to learn with:

Map Type=Continents
AI Opponents= 7

Is this the best set-up to help a beginner learn how to dominate the game? I understand most principles of the game, and I do okay in early stages. However, I falter down the stretch, even though I can usually maintain a 70-90% research by the end. I usually win, but in a time victory.

Thanks

Weaves

 

[Marmoset]

That's the setup I use for most of my noble games, so it should be fine (I alternate between Noble and Prince right now, depending on what I feel like at the time).

If you search around you'll find lots of tips on things you might need to try to be more successful at noble. I find everything below noble very easy, but noble is a definite step up from warlord. I had to start paying more attention to some of the smaller details that I had previously ignored more or less, such as specialization, the order I research techs, etc.

The biggest single difference I found in the step up was that war was very hard to avoid - I tend to be a builder type. By being proactve on that front, I was able to get the upper hand. There have been certain games where I could get by being more peaceful, but those are definitely in the minority.

 

[Nestorius]

I enjoy the regular standard size map with the standard number of opponents because it doesn't easily allow early total conquest, feels expansive, yet doesn't drag hugely on the CPU at the endgame.

The type of map is personal preference. Pangea and all land maps like lakes and highlands are good for learning warfare, while if you are trying to learn how to build, you might want a map that puts you alone on your own island.

Continents and Fractal maps are my favorite right now.

 

[Cam_H]

I also almost exclusively play with the 'vanilla' settings also - although I have six opponents, not seven.

There is some risk that you end up on an ocean-locked continent all by yourself, which does switch the 'typical' game into a new direction - often the pursuit of a cultural win.

The good thing from a learning perspective about continents is that there is a greater emphasis on developing a navy if you intend (particularly) to invade off-shore, and (to a lesser extent) protect yourself from off-shore invasion. The AI is not especially fantastic at naval warfare, so it's an area that the human player can master at the medium levels of difficulty. I think that some Wonders arguably become unbalanced on pangaea or conversely archipelago maps.

The fact that you are winning by time/score victories indicates to me that you're not especially well directed in terms of a winning strategy. Perhaps in your next game you should set yourself a target and fall-back target by the mid-game (e.g. attempt domination, if that's failing go after diplomatic).

 

[Hans Lemurson]

If you're having troubles on the lower levels, but are still winning, I'd say you probably need to "trim off the fat". Do not try to build every wonder of the world, just the ones that will actually help your strategy. Also, make sure you have a large military, even at the expense of some infrastructure development. With a large army, you can even conquer your neighbors.

The best way however to "trim off the fat" and become a "lean and mean" player, is to fight a rather...difficult battle.

Large Pangaea, Prince or Noble level.
Opponents: Montezuma, Alexander, Kublai Khan, Qin Shi Huang, Isabella, Tokugawa, Huyuana Capac, Mansa Musa and Louis. All of the psycho/dangerous ones.

Once you get through this game, you will have a very good idea of what moves are good moves, and what ones gets you killed.

 

[Valpo]

Pangea is good for learning and working with land warfare but I personally prefer to use continents because its good for working with a balanced strategy of having both a powerful navy and a powerful army.

 

[Sisiutil]

Opponents: Montezuma, Alexander, Kublai Khan, Qin Shi Huang, Isabella, Tokugawa, Huyuana Capac, Mansa Musa and Louis. All of the psycho/dangerous ones.

Good to see someone else considers Kublai a more formidable opponent than Genghis.

I don't find Louis as much of a challenge as Napoleon, however. And you really have to work at it to get Mansa mad at you.

 

[Hans Lemurson]

Kublai in my experience has always been more treacherous than Genghis who seemed downright honorable (in my limited experience). Plus, Creative is way better for conquest/landgrabbing than expansive.

The idea with Mansa Musa and Louis is that they are both strong late-game players, so if you don't deal with them early, you might be in for a whippin'. Qin is also a strong late-gamer, and is known for backstabs.

 

[MazX_TheDog]

Thanks for all the tips here guys. I will try an island map to get better at perfecting my cultural victory. I'm finding that I am terrible at my mid-game strat.

At one point at had 4 civs sharing my religion only to watch a total turn around and lose it all. I need to build more units for defense.

 

[pigswill]

Continents is a good map for practising early warfare and later naval stuff. If you're winning the early game and fading later its possible that you may be hedging your bets and not focussing on a particular victory condition. Going for a specific victory means that you do some things more and other things less. Trying to do everything means you end up with doing nothing really well and nothing really badly leading to a time victory.
Ps Welcome to the forum (just noticed its your first post)

 

[Pantastic]

Continents is a good choice because you won't end up on your own landmass, you will need to make caravels to contact the other continent and maybe invade later. I like Terra better, you get everyone on one land mass (for faster early tech and more trading) but still have the new world to motivate you to go overseas. Pangea is good if you don't want to mess with naval at all. Lakes is similar but the barbs are painful early on, it's really good if you want to learn how to deal with barbs and how to defend a border when you have no ocean to back against.

 

[Cam_H]

Continents is a good choice because you won't end up on your own landmass...

Well, let's just say "usually won't".

 

[Pantastic]

As far as I know, the 1.62 continents script always generates 2 big landmasses with players split between them. It's the 'fractal' map, which was called continents in older versions, that does more random shapes and numbers where you can end up alone.

 

[Cam_H]

Oh ... my apologies!

For a while there I could have sworn one-third of my maps put me on ocean-locked islands, but that was presumably pre-patch.

 

[frogger3d]

The last game I played was noble on continents and one of the islands was a lot smaller than the other. I was with Qin on one continent and the other 5 on the other. I dealt with Qin but did not landgrab my whole island, because most of it was bad. I had settled a bit and then came the horde: massive amounts of barbarians that would not let me go. How should I deal with those? Build some forts in the empty spaces or something?

 

[Pantastic]

Yeah Cam, I'm not sure why they changed the name like that, it's really confusing.

To deal with barbarians, you have two choices that depend on how big of a space you're blocking. If it's really huge, then you will need an army of units along your border to attack any barbs that come for you. This isn't bad, it will give you a chance to have a lot of 10xp units (especially useful since you don't have any AIs to train on). But if it's reasonable sized, the key thing to remember is that barbarians only spawn in spaces covered by fog of war. If you send out 'fogbusters' to see all of the space, you won't have any barbs. Scouts are probably best for this since they cost less maintenance than full military units.

 

[Sisiutil]

My favourite fog-busters are Archers with Guerilla promotions. Fortify them on a hill outside of your borders and they're like barb no-pest strips. Even Axemen can't dislodge them. They'll earn Guerilla II and even Combat I pretty quickly. Plus on a hill, they "see" more tiles and push the fog back further. Archers are also one of the cheapest units, hammer-wise.

As you build more cities and push your borders out further, just reposition the Archers on hills further out of your territory. Just don't forget about them, as they do cost maintenance and eventually become unnecessary. (I've had games where I've been scanning the map around 1950 AD and discovered an Archer on a tundra or ice hill where he's been shivering away valiantly for 4000 years...)

Scouts might cost less maintenance (I'm not sure of that), but their big disadvantage is that they're weak and usually die when attacked. All they can usually do in the face of encroaching barbs is give you advance warning, then run.

 

[Pantastic]

Right, you don't use scouts to push back fog, you use them to eliminate fog. Scouts definately don't cost the 'out of borders' maintenance fee that military units do, I've never really experimented to see if they cost the same basic maintenance.

Say you've got a big sheet of ice and tundra with no resources that you care about. You could plop a city down to push back fog, but extra cities get expensive - not just direct maintenance, but the more you have the more you pay overall. Often you can use 2-4 scouts to completely eliminate fog on an ice sheet that would take at least 2 cities to cover or half a dozen units to really guard your border, and once there's no fog you never have to worry about upgrading defenders or guarding workers near it.

 

[Sisiutil]

Right, you don't use scouts to push back fog, you use them to eliminate fog. Scouts definately don't cost the 'out of borders' maintenance fee that military units do, I've never really experimented to see if they cost the same basic maintenance.

Say you've got a big sheet of ice and tundra with no resources that you care about. You could plop a city down to push back fog, but extra cities get expensive - not just direct maintenance, but the more you have the more you pay overall. Often you can use 2-4 scouts to completely eliminate fog on an ice sheet that would take at least 2 cities to cover or half a dozen units to really guard your border, and once there's no fog you never have to worry about upgrading defenders or guarding workers near it.

Ah, I see your point.

However, I like using the barbs to accumulate some initial XPs. I often upgrade a former fog-busting Archer with Guerilla II and Combat I to a Longbow and fortify him in a city on a hill. It usually takes a tank to remove that guy...

 

[Cam_H]

As far as I know, the 1.62 continents script always generates 2 big landmasses with players split between them. It's the 'fractal' map, which was called continents in older versions, that does more random shapes and numbers where you can end up alone.

Maybe it's been amended to decrease the chance of an isolationist start, but I've just got one on continents.