Norway: Honorary Communist/Socialist state, with tons of Millionaires!

You also have much more natural resources per capita -- oh yeah, you guys own all the oil rights in the North Sea and are one of the few(if not only) weathly European nations that makes a good amount of money exporting oil.

Not many first world countries have a surplus of black gold like you guys.


Whatever money there is in Norway has more or less all been generated during the last 50 years.

Not a coincidence that oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 1960s. With its oil/natural gas exports, they couldn't afford all those benefits.
 
Not a coincidence that oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 1960s. With its oil/natural gas exports, they couldn't afford all those benefits.
The recent richness of Norway is based on oil, there is no doubt about it.
The oil industry produces a large number (for the size of the country) of well paid jobs that in return generates taxes for the state and a lively economy.

However Norway is not behaving like the oil-rich states of middle east.
The main oil company, Statoil is sate owned (67%) and surplus wealth produced by Norwegian petroleum income is deposited into a kind of pension fund.

Spoiler :
The purpose of the petroleum fund is to invest parts of the large surplus generated by the Norwegian petroleum sector, generated mainly from taxes of companies, but also payment for license to explore as well as the State's Direct Financial Interest and dividends from partly state-owned Statoil. Current revenue from the petroleum sector is estimated to be at its peak period and to decline over the next decades. The Petroleum Fund was established in 1990 after a decision by the country's legislature to counter the effects of the forthcoming decline in income and to smooth out the disrupting effects of highly fluctuating oil prices.


The Norwegian state can use only 3% of that fund yearly.


The welfare system in Norway in not funded directly by oil.



Drilling oil. And murdering whales!
:mad:

Yes they train murdering wales (very dangerous creatures) to protect the oil fields.
Non compliant murdering wales end-up at the supermarket.

:lol:
 
That's not fair! We need a global tax to punish them... I mean, help the disadvantaged. Billion of dollars of bail out money reward for destroying the economy

Fixed !
 
I wonder if we could explain this as a result of some quirk of the Norwegian system. I wouldn't be surprised if Australia was on the whole lower than most, at least, in terms of liquid (cash) assets, simply because we Australians loooooove to invest in property. Not only is negative gearing very attractive in its own right, as is running investment properties at a loss, we have capital gains and treat interest as income. Moreover, our houses are massively overvalued and huge capital sinks...

I dunno, be interesting to know.
 
I wonder if we could explain this as a result of some quirk of the Norwegian system. I wouldn't be surprised if Australia was on the whole lower than most, at least, in terms of liquid (cash) assets, simply because we Australians loooooove to invest in property. Not only is negative gearing very attractive in its own right, as is running investment properties at a loss, we have capital gains and treat interest as income. Moreover, our houses are massively overvalued and huge capital sinks...

I dunno, be interesting to know.

Almost everybody in Norway owns their own house (as well as a cabin in the mountains) and spend lavish amounts refurbishing them in regular intervals. If you are 30+ and still rent an appartment you are a weido almost by definition ;)

For tax purposes property is valued at a fraction of selling price and since the mortgage is tax deductable the system is set up to support these inclination.

For capital gains there is a flat tax (28%). Seems somwhat similar to Australia on first glance...
 
Paven said:
Almost everybody in Norway owns their own house (as well as a cabin in the mountains) and spend lavish amounts refurbishing them in regular intervals.

That doesn't tell me much though. Houses here are expensive. A quick Google search tells me that half a million is about the median price for a home here. That's AUD$ or US$1.05.

Paven said:
For tax purposes property is valued at a fraction of selling price and since the mortgage is tax deductable the system is set up to support these inclination.

Does that first part refer to stamp duty? And mortages are tax deductable here as well, but we're not talking about deductions on the family home, but negative gearing for very favourable tax outcomes on rental properties.

Paven said:
For capital gains there is a flat tax (28%). Seems somwhat similar to Australia on first glance...

At least the rate does. But I'm still not convinced.
 
That doesn't tell me much though. Houses here are expensive. A quick Google search tells me that half a million is about the median price for a home here. That's AUD$ or US$1.05

Didn't find a quick number for easy comparizon. I found a source (january 2011) claiming a price of 26.600 NOK per square meter and an average of 115 square meter per house. This translates into ~ 550k US$.

Does that first part refer to stamp duty? And mortages are tax deductable here as well, but we're not talking about deductions on the family home, but negative gearing for very favourable tax outcomes on rental properties.

I was not thinking about stamp duty, there is a wealth tax (~1%) on assets owned (theres probably a better technical term for this). Tax deductable family homes id assume would increase investment into real estate to cater to that marked? Or maybe im completely off base here.

At least the rate does. But I'm still not convinced.

Seems to be a good source of information]
 
Norwegen is bloody lucky that:

a) they have so much oil
b) the benefits are shared accross society

Nonetheless. Other countries are purposely not using their oil reserves so that when the oil of some runs out, they can start tapping their own instead of importing. Not sure what the status is on Norwegian's oil supply but perhaps it could backfire within a century or so?
 
However Norway is not behaving like the oil-rich states of middle east.
The main oil company, Statoil is sate owned (67%) and surplus wealth produced by Norwegian petroleum income is deposited into a kind of pension fund.

Spoiler :
The purpose of the petroleum fund is to invest parts of the large surplus generated by the Norwegian petroleum sector, generated mainly from taxes of companies, but also payment for license to explore as well as the State's Direct Financial Interest and dividends from partly state-owned Statoil. Current revenue from the petroleum sector is estimated to be at its peak period and to decline over the next decades. The Petroleum Fund was established in 1990 after a decision by the country's legislature to counter the effects of the forthcoming decline in income and to smooth out the disrupting effects of highly fluctuating oil prices.

Yeah, there is no doubt that Norway handles its natural wealth with proper Nordic sense. Even notwithstanding the fact that about anything is sensible compared to how some of the sheiks spend their petro dollars.

About the fund:
In US, budget deficit is the problem.
In Communist Norway, budget surplus is the problem. Simply ain't no place to profitably invest all that damn money.
...

It's even funnier because I think it describes the current greatest problem of Norway kinda accurately?
 
Norwegen is bloody lucky that:

a) they have so much oil
No doubt about it.
Norway would be a rather poor country if it wasn't for oil.
However only a small part of the huge gain is used for spending.

It's also important to note that Norway doesn't have "easy" oil like in Saudi Arabia: Norway had to build the technology and the expertise to extract its oil.
Norway also decided to do by itself instead of (under)selling out to some big corporation: this meant that Norway is now reaping the profits and it's in charge of its own destiny instead of being in the hand of some foreign petrol corporation.
Norway also didn't waste the oil profits (see middle east) or use it for populist agendas (see Venezuela).

b) the benefits are shared accross society
This is a very important point.
In Norway there is a relatively small gap between top and bottom salaries.
It's a very egalitarian society; for people it's normal that even "low" jobs should be well remunerated.

Nonetheless. Other countries are purposely not using their oil reserves so that when the oil of some runs out, they can start tapping their own instead of importing. Not sure what the status is on Norwegian's oil supply but perhaps it could backfire within a century or so?
Norway already uses very little oil internally: all power production is hydroelectric.
Oil is used for transportation, however the state tax the hell out of fuel to reduce consumption and promote electric cars (e.g. in Oslo you have free recharge of electric cars).

The thinking is to sell the oil now and invest (not spend) the revenues out of it.
Norway is already working hard to reduce any dependency on oil.
In a century we will have to do without oil anyway.

About the fund:
In US, budget deficit is the problem.
In Communist Norway, budget surplus is the problem. Simply ain't no place to profitably invest all that damn money.
...

It's even funnier because I think it describes the current greatest problem of Norway kinda accurately?
Somehow, yes. :)
There is too much money and it will not wise to spend it.
 
Somehow, yes. :)
There is too much money and it will not wise to spend it.

Join the EU, that would be a good way to spend it. :p
 
Norway also has a very high cost of living compared to the U.S.

Being a millionaire doesn't mean as much when a Big Mac costs $6.

That's how much a big mac costs here in Canada.. ($5.50 I think to be precise)

edit: says $4.16 on the chart. That seems too low to me.. then again I'm not exactly a regular visitor of mcds
 
No, it was about property tax (there no council tax like in UK).

stamp duty is a flat 2.5% of the property value (for buying, not for inheriting).
Spoiler :

Stamp duty is normally calculated as 2.5 % of a property’s market value. If you inherit property, you will be exempt from having to pay stamp duty. Stamp duty for newly built property is based upon the plot value.

Property owned by shareholders is not considered real estate, and thereby not subject to the Stamp Duty Act



For comparison with UK:
Stamp duty in UK:
0% on houses between £0-£250,00 (for first-time buyers)
0% on houses costing up to £125,000 (non first-time buyers)
1% on houses costing £125,000 – £250,000
3% on houses costing £250,000 – £500,000
4% on houses costing £500,000 – £1 million
5% on houses costing £1 million or more
 
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