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Not excited...... not one bit

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Dale, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Exactly my point. We don't know all the details of the implementation yet.

    And, even if they say flat out that it uses 1UPT (which I don't think they have yet, though I'm sure someone will correct me if they have, but it's a moot point because...) there is nothing prohibiting them from changing how it works, possibly even radically. There's 1UPT and 1UPT... nothing says it'll be exactly like CiV's implementation.
     
  2. TheGhostAgent

    TheGhostAgent Chieftain

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    Not gonna lie, I'm not all too thrilled either once I read about the 1UPT limit. When that idea first spawned for Civ5, I knew it was going to be an immersion killing cluster. I still gave it a chance, bought it, tried playing it for a week then went straight back to Civ4. I'll try to be open minded about CBE, but I'm afraid it's going to run into the very same problems of Civ5.
     
  3. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Is it really more immersion-killing for you than scores of "suicide catapults?" I guess it could for some people, but to me civ just isn't the best war game--and never has been. 1upt is the new thing and therefore is what gets the fingerpointing. I think if that's how the franchise started, and at some point the developers introduced "stacks" you'd see the opposite reaction.

    But that's neither here nor there. In the new game, it sounds to me like the satellite system could add very much to the issues with 1upt.
     
  4. Skipity

    Skipity Chieftain

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    Scores? As in multiples of 20?

    You gotta show me these screenshots where you have suicided 40+ Catapults in a game of Civ IV.

    Maybe the reason you were against stacks is because you were doing it wrong?
     
  5. OneFootInThe...

    OneFootInThe... Warlord

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    Well early previews are there to generate interest (or hype) if executed well, and for me it created exactly the opposite. :crazyeye:
     
  6. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    The word "scores" doesn't work? Ok, how about any? In what way is it immersive to have cats/arty be your front-line "expendable" troops on suicide missions?
     
  7. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Fair enough. However, isn't that attributable more to the fact that this is a sore point with some folks? Of course, we can blame Firaxis for that, too, which is fair. Still, that doesn't change the fact that it's a hypersensitivity and not anything real regarding BE at this point.

    Which is all I'm saying. We need to give it a few months before we can even begin to draw conclusions. Otherwise, we're making conclusions based upon faulty assumptions which is bad logic at its best. ;)
     
  8. boghog

    boghog Warlord

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    Is there anything you can base this on?
    As far as we know:
    • choosing your "civilization" is more tactically complex, because it involves more choices
    • interacting with aliens (aka barbarians) is more diverse because they can move camp and actually react to you and might even become something like allies
    • teching is more versatile and allows for more diverse exploratory paths
    • social policies (here: virtues) are more interconnected and create more interesting and varied choices
    • battles are probably more involved as units can be customised, satellites play a role and (for supremacy at least) even troop formations can have an influence
    • espionage will allow more choices
    • quests will at least be more connected than CS quests and by the sound of it more varied, too
    • all other subsystems (culture, diplomacy) apart from religion and city states are at least there (might be simplified, might not be)

    All in all, I think a case could be made for BE being noticeably more complex than CiV.
     
  9. Skipity

    Skipity Chieftain

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    So we're clear: you're fine with Archers shooting from Paris to London and a crew of workers preventing any of your troops from from traveling through (or even entering) Egypt. But having siege weapons die while soften up your opponent's position just destroys the realism experience for ya?

    Alright you win. 1upt 4eva!

    Moderator Action: Please make your argument without putting words in his mouth. He never said those things and putting it like this is trolling. And is it really all about winning or losing? How about a civil discussion please.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  10. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Out of curiosity, was the deinstallation before or after G&K? 1upt plays very differently now compared to before. When deciding if it's a good idea going forwards, it's important to consider the lessons they've learned along the way.
     
  11. Nashoa

    Nashoa Chieftain

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    I think the main problem with 1up in Civ 5 is that its really hard to do tactics well on a strategic map. Yet, SoD had no real tactical depth to them at all. They worked in a strategic and thematic sense in many ways but the tedium of them was a huge turn off.

    Another issue in Civ for both is relative army size, distance traveled per turn and time. It's never made sense to me that it can take me 100+ years game time to move an army to fight someone or that wars can last for thousands of years. The vast majority of wars in human history are done in under 20 years or 1/2 turns in Civ time.

    Short of fundamentally changing how units and their relation to tiles is done in Civ there really is no good solution.

    Maybe they should just remove units and make armies slots in a city or a fort(to make them useful) with a large range(large enough that you can attack other civs). If another army enters their range you can intercept them. Then,

    And when two armies meet place units on the strategic map where they meet. Maybe 1unit in some turn based placing for depth in how you lay out your army. Then fight, as we do now but cycle unit turns or something. Until one side wins. Might suck in multiplayer but you can only give 10seconds a unit turn or something.

    Then go back to the main turn. And you can move more armies.

    Like I said no good solution.
     
  12. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Actually that sounds like a pretty good solution .. Might need some work but actually using armies instead of units would be good.
     
  13. Lheim

    Lheim Chieftain

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    Don't see what was wrong with how it was done in Gal Civ 2.

    That game, you had a empire-wide 'logistics' rating. That could be improved by racial traits and technology over the course of the game.

    Your logistics rating determined the maximum size of your fleets - logistics rating 5? Five small ships can work together as a fleet, or 1 capital ship (3 points) and 2 smaller ships (2 points), or any such combination.

    In battle fleet fights fleet. Lone ships are likely goners.

    The benefits of tactical fleet composition with little of the hassle of SoDs, while allowing armies to move past each other as in previous Civ games.

    Edit: Or am I thinking of Endless Space.. either way, it's a good solution!
     
  14. caravaner

    caravaner Chieftain

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    There was a game called Imperialism that had quite a good solution for this.

    The map was tile based, but it was also divided into provinces. You could not put your armies on single tiles, but instead you chose on what province they were or attacked.

    Another option could be something like Medieval Total War or Lords of the Realm style system.
     
  15. Civking5

    Civking5 Prince

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    If you are some one who doesn't like civ5 or up coming civBE because of 1upt; then you should make a more permanent desision to move on, since I think civ6 will keep 1upt feature considering the marketing success of civ5.
     
  16. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    :sarcasm: Hmnn. Interesting. So, according to your educated thesis of an individuals dislikes concerning 1 upt, that automatically invalidates any cognitive discussion of BE? Well Sir, I do so hope you will forgive me for not following your afore mentioned advice of making a "permanent decision" of moving on.
    Please allow me the small modicum of some rather pertenant clarification of previous thread posters (and myself as well) that you may have accidently over looked in your ubrupt haste to categorize all people who dislike 1 upt.

    Clarification; It's not that all of us hate 1 upt in any type of gaming. It is that 1 upt was poorly designed and implemented in Civ V that we hate.

    I realise that the distinction is small, and you may have missed that particular addendum in your original thesis in order to rush your opinion to print, but I really recommend you try to get all of your facts straight when you publish your criteria concerning an individuals permenent decisions, it helps avoid your disertations from getting shredded in the future.
     
  17. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Emperor

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    If you read his post carefully, you'll note that his gently worded advice doesn't in fact apply to you, dear poster sarcastrordinaire :p But seriously, he specifically addressed that to those who don't like Civ V because of 1UPT, not because of the implementation of 1UPT, just 1UPT in it's most basic form as a mechanic. He made this post on the likely basis that the 1UPT thing is here to stay, spotting some kind of trend seeing a second game in a row with these rules now.

    It may not have been a 5* post, but it wasn't poking you with a stick, and there was no need for such a sarcastic response. Especially when you are going to commit the same crime you accuse him of.


    More to the point, i think this thread must be about wrapped up by now. In 10+ pages you can cover the pros and cons of 1UPT and then some. This just seems to be getting divisive!
     
  18. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Interestingly enough, I find myself in agreement with you. This thread should be closed :D. It would assist in preventing the possibility of further Jon Stewart-esque commentary :mischief:.
     
  19. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

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    I don't think you can say Civ V sold better because of 1UPT. Reviewers may have given it glowing reviews, but they also did for Civ IV, and they probably would have for either of them even if the games were much worse than they were. That's just how game reviews tend to work for AAA titles ... early access and inside info in exchange for glowing reviews.

    Certainly we will see differences from Civ V in future titles. CivBE is using Civ V's engine, so 1UPT was already in place. It would have taken a much larger effort to take 1UPT out than to use it. So all it really speaks towards is that Firaxis is focusing resources on other areas of development rather than the "engine".

    We won't know until Civ VI rolls around whether it's "here to stay" or not, and certainly fans of the series shouldn't give up on voicing their opinions (either way). All Civ games have had some pretty significant changes from previous iterations, even though usually their predecessors sold well (for their time).
     
  20. pepe26

    pepe26 Lacrosse Enthusiast

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    To satisfy your curiosity :) It was before G&K! I then bought G&K for multiplayer purposes on a private LAN party. It didn't feel much different than Vanilla but I continued to play the game for 10 or 20 hours. I realized then, that I didn't like the 1UPT system at all, although I was thrilled about the hexes over the squares. 2nd deinstallation followed ;) Back to BtS...
     

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