Noticed Bugs? Balance Issues

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Ok now that I have TD off and played quite a fair number of playthroughs of the crime patch from 5th Dec 2016. I have noticed a few things that seem buggy? I am also playing of Diety mode

1 AI tends to get all of the prehistoric Wonders, like the Klasies River Caves wonder, and then runs away with the early game. As in they get to Sedent Lifestyle by the time everyone else is getting Domestication techs. Is this how it is meant to work out? Or are all AI meant to roughly be equal. Score wise the single AI that built all these wonder gets to 150+ when everyone else is at 60ish.

Another thing I have noticed is Master Hunters are no longer needed to build trackers? That seems a bit weird and makes the game a little easier, so to speak.

Lastly Great Generals are not providing any exp to any of my units after settling them as Military Instructors

 

[JosEPh_II]

Ok now that I have TD off and played quite a fair number of playthroughs of the crime patch from 5th Dec 2016. I have noticed a few things that seem buggy? I am also playing of Diety mode

1.1 AI tends to get all of the prehistoric Wonders, like the Klasies River Caves wonder, and then runs away with the early game. As in they get to Sedent Lifestyle by the time everyone else is getting Domestication techs. Is this how it is meant to work out? Or are all AI meant to roughly be equal. Score wise the single AI that built all these wonder gets to 150+ when everyone else is at 60ish.

2.Another thing I have noticed is Master Hunters are no longer needed to build trackers? That seems a bit weird and makes the game a little easier, so to speak.

3.Lastly Great Generals are not providing any exp to any of my units after settling them as Military Instructors

1a. If an AI or Players settles their 1st city with Caves in it's vicinity then the Cave Wonders are presented with a boost iirc. And yes anyone that gets the Cave Wonders and can build most of them will run ahead of the pack for sometime.
1b. On deity All the AI start the game with 2 bands of Homo Sapiens and 8 free units. Not so for the Human Player.
1c. Everyone is affected by their starting location and what resources get revealed there.
1d. Leader traits also play a big part in early fast starts.

2. Trackers have always came before Hunters. There are Now Master Trackers available, as well as when Hunters are researched to upgrade to Master Hunters. Master Trackers can upgrade to Master Hunters. Hunting Lodge is a necessary Building.

3. I have not personally seen this.

Did you clear your cache before you started these Dec 5th Patch games? If you did not that can cause hold over cached data from your previous version to corrupt the next versions changes. We try to preach to Clear the cache before any version change that skips multiple versions. Especially ones were the .DLL has been changed. Sometime you may also need to empty out your User Setting Folder and use the New default one on a new version. All it contains is the Custom Domestic Advisor folder so on the 1st turn of a New version's 1st game you will need to go into BUG and reset all your favorite settings. Then Save the game immediately and then Save again. This locks the new setting into the User Setting Folder. I know a bunch of added steps but it's what we've come across with the Mod house cleaning that has happened during the progression from official v36 to the place we are now with v37 about to be released. Sorry for the inconvenience.

JosEPh

 

[tmv]

2. Trackers have always came before Hunters. There are Now Master Trackers available, as well as when Hunters are researched to upgrade to Master Hunters. Master Trackers can upgrade to Master Hunters. Hunting Lodge is a necessary Building.

I think he meant the Master Hunter building, which was once needed to build any hunter unit better than chaser, but now it only gives experience to hunters and possibly some and .

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I agree that not needing the Hunting Lodge to be able to build Trackers and above unbalances things. There is a Great Hunrter building that gives you a free one in all your cities but I am thinking of dropping it now that you don't need the building to build Trackers and above.

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

I think he meant the Master Hunter building, which was once needed to build any hunter unit better than chaser, but now it only gives experience to hunters and possibly some and .

This is exactly what I meant. And I feel it has made the game less "balanced" And yeah Joseph the whole thing with caves are a little bit too overpowered, it's at the point where I will not settle a city until I find caves

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

1a. If an AI or Players settles their 1st city with Caves in it's vicinity then the Cave Wonders are presented with a boost iirc. And yes anyone that gets the Cave Wonders and can build most of them will run ahead of the pack for sometime.
1b. On deity All the AI start the game with 2 bands of Homo Sapiens and 8 free units. Not so for the Human Player.
1c. Everyone is affected by their starting location and what resources get revealed there.
1d. Leader traits also play a big part in early fast starts.

2. Trackers have always came before Hunters. There are Now Master Trackers available, as well as when Hunters are researched to upgrade to Master Hunters. Master Trackers can upgrade to Master Hunters. Hunting Lodge is a necessary Building.

3. I have not personally seen this.

Did you clear your cache before you started these Dec 5th Patch games? If you did not that can cause hold over cached data from your previous version to corrupt the next versions changes. We try to preach to Clear the cache before any version change that skips multiple versions. Especially ones were the .DLL has been changed. Sometime you may also need to empty out your User Setting Folder and use the New default one on a new version. All it contains is the Custom Domestic Advisor folder so on the 1st turn of a New version's 1st game you will need to go into BUG and reset all your favorite settings. Then Save the game immediately and then Save again. This locks the new setting into the User Setting Folder. I know a bunch of added steps but it's what we've come across with the Mod house cleaning that has happened during the progression from official v36 to the place we are now with v37 about to be released. Sorry for the inconvenience.

JosEPh

I am a nub. How do you clear the caché for Civ IV/C2C? I will check myself but if I have not found it before you reply then thanks ^^

 

[Thunderbrd]

I feel it makes the game more balanced to not have the Master Hunter required to train trackers. it's almost impossible to kill an animal that gives a master hunter lodge WITHOUT trackers. Certainly forces a hell of a lot of wasted units trying. And many regions don't have an equal chance at this goal.

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Here is an example of the great general not working for me. I was trying to find the SS I just did for the game but cannot at the moment. I don't know if it is just my computer/save that does not allow the xp to not work for the stone throwers/brutes?

 

[JosEPh_II]

From a previous Bug post of mine:

Please remember to clear your cache file Before you start a new game. And use the default SVN User Settings folder to start the new game. Then on your 1st turn go into BUG and reset All your favorite settings. Then Save game. And then Save a 2nd time. This stores all your settings from BUG in the User Settings file.

Cache file/folder to clear for win 10 64 is in this path: C:\Users\"yourname"\AppData\Local\My Games\Beyond the Sword\cache. All other win OS is similar.

JosEPh

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Thanks dude

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I feel it makes the game more balanced to not have the Master Hunter required to train trackers. it's almost impossible to kill an animal that gives a master hunter lodge WITHOUT trackers. Certainly forces a hell of a lot of wasted units trying. And many regions don't have an equal chance at this goal.

Then we should remove the cave wonders for the same reason.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Then we should remove the cave wonders for the same reason.

Well... the problem is more that it's annoying when you can't succeed at getting that Master Hunter Lodge. I see your point about the cave wonders but that's not annoying.

With animals not being so ready to attack, having only chasers and scouts to try and get the actual great hunter XP (without it going to General XP because you are giving yourself a real chance of survival against the wild by sending out clubs and spears) is about the only way to do it because they can't really take down a creature capable of giving the Master Hunter lodge. Tough to do because the scout is more powerful but doesn't come under attack much. So it means you really need to get that Great Hunter and turn him into a Master Chaser or whatever to have a chance to get the Lodge so you can get trackers and up...

I don't know man, I've just been appreciating not having to require it for trackers. A lot.

 

[Noriad2]

It is not necessarily bad that some civs get ahead of the others. How else are you going to create an "end boss" for the map you are playing?

 

[Thunderbrd]

It is not necessarily bad that some civs get ahead of the others. How else are you going to create an "end boss" for the map you are playing?

True. But I feel this is more about the human player feeling powerless to the whim of bad luck. I can totally accept not having access to cave wonders... even if I HAD access it's debateable whether or not I'd want to waste the production time on such quickly obsoleted wonders, even if they ARE powerful. But if I just can't find an animal I can take down that gives the Master Hunter Lodge, I'm going to get really pissed that I cannot strategically forge my own destiny to create a path to such a critical need - trackers and hunters. Which ironically is much harder to obtain if you don't already have access to them. It's a recipe for irritation is what I've found.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

True. But I feel this is more about the human player feeling powerless to the whim of bad luck. I can totally accept not having access to cave wonders... even if I HAD access it's debateable whether or not I'd want to waste the production time on such quickly obsoleted wonders, even if they ARE powerful. But if I just can't find an animal I can take down that gives the Master Hunter Lodge, I'm going to get really pissed that I cannot strategically forge my own destiny to create a path to such a critical need - trackers and hunters. Which ironically is much harder to obtain if you don't already have access to them. It's a recipe for irritation is what I've found.

And I am finding it really boring that everyone is the same. There is no challenge to overcome, your cities just keep growing and growing turning out more and more. Your units just get more and more powerful.

The latest changes to game speed has had some impact on making crime a problem again because it takes so long to get to that next level of crime fighter and it costs all the income from one turn just to upgrade one crime fighting unit while taking 4-5 turns to build the new unit.

 

[Thunderbrd]

And I am finding it really boring that everyone is the same. There is no challenge to overcome, your cities just keep growing and growing turning out more and more. Your units just get more and more powerful.

I admit the AI needs to do a better job of harassing the player and that's one of the major things left unaccomplished that was part of the version goal.

I get your point on the Master Hunter too. Sometimes I like the challenge but sometimes I find it really annoying. I think it depends most on what region I end up in and what animals give access there, how frequent they are and how much you need the Master Tracker before you have it so as to be enabled to get it. Until you do, it's like animal after animal you take down without subdual that could have benefited you, many of the best of which you see ever so rarely, and it just makes you want to scream at the computer...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We have been adding animals that give Hunting Lodges to other regions and I am not sure there are any left that have no animals.

Subdual is supposed to be rare and fustrating at first. The number of games in which I never get a dog until after Sedentary Lifestyle is not small.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We have been adding animals that give Hunting Lodges to other regions and I am not sure there are any left that have no animals.

Subdual is supposed to be rare and fustrating at first. The number of games in which I never get a dog until after Sedentary Lifestyle is not small.

Now that resource specific animals like horses and such aren't going to be quite so rare, with the normalization tweak to spawning helping to make animals that have few spawn tiles spawn more often on those tiles, it might not be quite as frustrating as it was to have your one and only chance to subdue a horse, for example, take place when you have pretty much no chance of subduing anything because you don't have a Master Hunter Lodge yet. We could try it again but I'd advise doing so after release unless you want to do it as an option. I could setup an option easy enough.

On that note, shouldn't all those 'builds a hunting lodge everywhere' things that apply to animals only be given to great hunters rather than great generals? Giving them to Generals seems out of character.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It was Great Generals because we did not have Great Hunters. Then it was both so perhaps it needs to be changed just to Great Hunters now.

There may also be a difference when I get the hunting promotions worked out. I want to split the subdue chance off from the hunt chance basically as another promotion line. I'll see if I can write up my proposal during my two weeks without internet, which starts on Thursday. Mum does not have internet, but then she was born even before Bletchley Park was a thing.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It was Great Generals because we did not have Great Hunters. Then it was both so perhaps it needs to be changed just to Great Hunters now.

There may also be a difference when I get the hunting promotions worked out. I want to split the subdue chance off from the hunt chance basically as another promotion line. I'll see if I can write up my proposal during my two weeks without internet, which starts on Thursday. Mum does not have internet, but then she was born even before Bletchley Park was a thing.

Wow... the release will be perfect timing for you! A planning phase like that is usually exactly how I like to start with a new release cycle.

I like the idea of splitting subdual mostly into its own line. Feel free to expand on the Capture line for that for hunters and such. I like that the hunting line would have a little subdual chance added but I can see it being good to have them largely divided.

Do you have anything that you need the release to wait on or do you think you'll be able to have your ends sewn up by Thursday since that appears to be your cutoff?