Now, about the Koreans.....

[dido]

I think I'll change my USER ID into the ANGRY KOREAN MAN or something....
Korea really needs to spread its culture and promote its history.....

you have to realize the fact that the history of East Asia is way more boring than that of Europe

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

you have to realize the fact that the history of East Asia is way more boring than that of Europe

That's just cuz u have no idea about East Asian history.............
Go read your history

 

[TheLastOne36]

I think the only reason people think like that is because they have more knowledge of European history, and European history is much easier to gain access to. European history is EXTREMELY boring in the dark ages (300-1000 AD) Islamic and Asian history so much more interesting around that timeline.

 

[Evie]

There is no such thing as boring history.

There is only boring historians (and history profs).

 

[neutrino]

Manchuria would have been Korea's if Balhae or Goguryo became the dominant power.

I think not. Even back in the Korean 3-kingdoms period, Manchuria was not inhabited solely by the Koguryo people. There were others as well, including the Mohe and the Khitans.

(Plus, how many times Manchuria has changed hands until 1945? Not to mention that it directly borders Mongolia. Meanwhile, various Turko-Mongol tribes from the Mongolian steppe have successfully invaded China for many centuries and China has been the most powerful civilization until the modern era; a much smaller Koguryo/Palhae taking on the nomadic invaders better than China? Wishful thinking.)

Another problem I see is just exactly which people 'belong' to the notion of the Koreans? If the Koreans identify themselves as descendents of the Koguryo people, then what about Paekjae and Shilla? What makes Koguryo more 'Korean' than the other two? Based on what facts, if any?

If this sort of reasoning were to be applied to, let's say, modern England, then the English should emphasize their Anglo-Saxon lineage and make claims over parts of Netherlands, Northwestern Germany and Southern Denmark, since there were three Germanic tribes (the Anglos, the Saxons and the Jutes) who had inhabited along these three areas before they jumped to the British Isles. But we do not see the English making such claims.

Therefore, strictly speaking, the (ancient) Koguryo people are not (modern) 'Koreans', just as the (ancient) Germanic tribes are not (modern) 'English'.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

I think the only reason people think like that is because they have more knowledge of European history, and European history is much easier to gain access to. European history is EXTREMELY boring in the dark ages (300-1000 AD) Islamic and Asian history so much more interesting around that timeline.

European history is fascinating during the Dark Ages...

 

[TheLastOne36]

Depends on who you ask, imo the Islamic world is so much more interesting at that time period then European.

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

I think not. Even back in the Korean 3-kingdoms period, Manchuria was not inhabited solely by the Koguryo people. There were others as well, including the Mohe and the Khitans.

(Plus, how many times Manchuria has changed hands until 1945? Not to mention that it directly borders Mongolia. Meanwhile, various Turko-Mongol tribes from the Mongolian steppe have successfully invaded China for many centuries and China has been the most powerful civilization until the modern era; a much smaller Koguryo/Palhae taking on the nomadic invaders better than China? Wishful thinking.)

Another problem I see is just exactly which people 'belong' to the notion of the Koreans? If the Koreans identify themselves as descendents of the Koguryo people, then what about Paekjae and Shilla? What makes Koguryo more 'Korean' than the other two? Based on what facts, if any?

If this sort of reasoning were to be applied to, let's say, modern England, then the English should emphasize their Anglo-Saxon lineage and make claims over parts of Netherlands, Northwestern Germany and Southern Denmark, since there were three Germanic tribes (the Anglos, the Saxons and the Jutes) who had inhabited along these three areas before they jumped to the British Isles. But we do not see the English making such claims.

Therefore, strictly speaking, the (ancient) Koguryo people are not (modern) 'Koreans', just as the (ancient) Germanic tribes are not (modern) 'English'.

As i said, goguryo and Balhae were multiethnical countries ruled by an Goguryo elite.
Even they cant be called korean, but they are part of korean history, and as one of its components, we could have hung on to more land.

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

But we did see the Hundred Year's War............

 

[plarq]

Depends on who you ask, imo the Islamic world is so much more interesting at that time period then European.

Is it because Europeans were backward while the Islam World had its golden age?

 

[aronnax]

Is it because Europeans were backward while the Islam World had its golden age?

Possibly.
The early middle ages as well as the ancient era simply boring to me.

 

[Azale]

As a response to something that was OOC in the Best American President thread...

South Korea is democratic? Youre making me laugh my balls off.
South Korea is ruled by elitist congressmen who literally fight each other or sleep during session, a leftist executive branch, and an ineffective and corrupt judiciary branch.

It is a flawed democracy, but it is well within the power of the South Korean people to change it with time. Gigantic hissyfits over American meat is not the kind of change I mean, neither is appeasement to your brothers in the North.

Much better than ol' Park's regime however.

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

As a response to something that was OOC in the Best American President thread...



It is a flawed democracy, but it is well within the power of the South Korean people to change it with time. Gigantic hissyfits over American meat is not the kind of change I mean, neither is appeasement to your brothers in the North.

Much better than ol' Park's regime however.

Well, I give Park a lot of credit for improving the country into what it is now, but he was a dictator and a strongman......he made the KCIA arrest people like McCarthy used to when to catch the Commies........

Whereas our recent presidents have been the ephitemy of stupidity and corruption. The Korean people as a whole dont understand democracy the way Westerners do; their interpretation of democracy IS GIGANTIC HISSYFITS OVER AMERICAN MEAT(the ironic thing is, people lined up to buy the American beef after the crisis ended; prices soared and I laughed my balls off for my sad, idiotic countrymen fighting for American beef).....
Appeasement started after Kim DaeJung with his damn SUNSHINE policy that did nothing except fill the stomachs of the North Korean Army(South Korean and Chinese newspapers allege that only minimal benefits went to the North Korean citizens).

 

[plarq]

Well, I give Park a lot of credit for improving the country into what it is now, but he was a dictator and a strongman......he made the KCIA arrest people like McCarthy used to when to catch the Commies........

Whereas our recent presidents have been the ephitemy of stupidity and corruption. The Korean people as a whole dont understand democracy the way Westerners do; their interpretation of democracy IS GIGANTIC HISSYFITS OVER AMERICAN MEAT(the ironic thing is, people lined up to buy the American beef after the crisis ended; prices soared and I laughed my balls off for my sad, idiotic countrymen fighting for American beef).....
Appeasement started after Kim DaeJung with his damn SUNSHINE policy that did nothing except fill the stomachs of the North Korean Army(South Korean and Chinese newspapers allege that only minimal benefits went to the North Korean citizens).

Park as McCarthy? He is much more bloody!

At least South Korea goes on the route of democracy, while Russia and China openly despise it.

 

[ConanKND]

Hey, you've been asking the wrong people - Americans.

As for Asians, it's a whole different story. Thanks to Hallyu, in SE-Asia (at least Thailand Taeguk), not only K-Pop, which is the definition of cool, but also Korean dramas are so loved and adored. Not only modern series (Coffee Prince type), but also historical dramas are popular. In a national channel, Korean historical drams have a fixed timing for two hours on Weekend evenings (18.00-20.00), they're like Daejangkum, Seodongyo, The King and I (Kim Chu Seon) and latest, Lee San. Which means that a large number of Thais (not a huge amount, but large none the less - mostly us Bangkok people), know a fair bit of Korean history. Yeonsangun's period is quite well known, since he's in a lot of drama. Not only that, but more and more teenages today can read and write hangul, too. I'm in the Arts-French program, but about 10-20% of the people in my class (mostly girls) can read and write hangul and speak basic Koreans. Of course, these are the same group of people who are artist's fans - TVXQ, FTISLAND, SJ - you name it.

Nowadays, Korea (and Japan, though less so), is the definition of cool anyway, so don't worry. Your influence in Thailand has a much stronger grip than in the US of A.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

There are girls I know who are obsessed with K-Pop.

 

[Azale]

Well, I give Park a lot of credit for improving the country into what it is now, but he was a dictator and a strongman......he made the KCIA arrest people like McCarthy used to when to catch the Commies........

Whereas our recent presidents have been the ephitemy of stupidity and corruption. The Korean people as a whole dont understand democracy the way Westerners do; their interpretation of democracy IS GIGANTIC HISSYFITS OVER AMERICAN MEAT(the ironic thing is, people lined up to buy the American beef after the crisis ended; prices soared and I laughed my balls off for my sad, idiotic countrymen fighting for American beef).....
Appeasement started after Kim DaeJung with his damn SUNSHINE policy that did nothing except fill the stomachs of the North Korean Army(South Korean and Chinese newspapers allege that only minimal benefits went to the North Korean citizens).

Representative "democracy" is only the least flawed choice of government, remember that

Lee might be competent, but he was way behind the 8-ball before he really had a chance due to this whole "meat crisis". I think his approval rating was hovering around 15% last I checked. He certainly does not play the North's diplomatic games like Dae Jung did, he has called the North's bluff on closing Kaesong and other supposedly "symbolic" gestures that Roo and Dae Jung had "accomplished" with the North.

 

[neutrino]

Speaking of the crisis over imported American beef in S. Korea and some other issues:

1. Do not bother trying to understand South Koreans logically.

2. Why has there been no mass demonstrations over tainted Chinese foodstuffs? If anything, this is much more serious than imported American beef. (On the other hand, winter is not the best season to hold mass demonstrations in Korea, unless you do not mind getting frostbites.)

3. There has been problems with parasite-infested produce from China. What did the government do? They deferred food inspection to the Chinese authorities. (OMFG! Letting the fox to guard the hen house?!?)

4. A few months ago, series of mass demonstrations over imported American beef. Once the import got going, they were selling like hot cakes! (Thanks, E.Y.!)

5. On N. Korea: Idiocy at its finest. Korean leftists refuse to see what N. Korea as it really is. N. Korea is not that difficult to understand. Basically its goal is to sustain its decrepit regime in whatever way it can. Play up the nuke card on a regular basis to extort as much as you can from S. Korea, US, and Japan. Meanwhile, you know bloody darn well that you face no political threat from the rest of the world, even if you have managed to piss them off with brinkmanship. (If anything, nobody wants N. Korea to implode. In particular, S. Korea and China will face massive humanitarian crisis along their borders if that happens, and neither one of them wants to pay for it. On the other hand, the US has been telling S. Korea to be ready for a possible N. Korean implosion for some time, but S. Koreans have their attention fixed at somewhere else so far ... )

6. On English-mania: Why is it that job interviews and entrance exams require passing English, even for those applicants who are not picked by 'international offices'?

7. On Koguryo-mania: Difficult to explain this unless we delve into how S. Koreans feel about their own history. a) The humiliating end of Yi Dynasty, quickly followed by Japanese annexation in 1910; b) The Imjin War of late 16th century and the Manchu Invasion in mid-17th century; c) Endless political infighting among ruling factions. Overall, the popular notion is that the Yi Dynasty was incompetent. Therefore, its predecessors must be better. What a leap of faith! The Koryo actually performed far worse than their successor. (During the middle Koryo period, it was dominated by military elites. For about 60 years, it was run pretty much like the Medieval Japanese Bakufu. Plus, it suffered from the Mongol Invasion, which was worse than either the Japanese or the Manchus.) As for Koguryo? How many times they got invaded (Why do you think they moved their capital to Pyongyang? LOL.)? Nevermind ... Koguryo had the biggest real estate compared to all of its successors. LOL ... Manchuria was hardly the best place to grow crops (short summer) and anyone who happened to be the king of the hill over there had a vast stretch of borders to defend (how many times has Manchuria changed hands?).

 

[Eretz Yisrael]

Representative "democracy" is only the least flawed choice of government, remember that

Lee might be competent, but he was way behind the 8-ball before he really had a chance due to this whole "meat crisis". I think his approval rating was hovering around 15% last I checked. He certainly does not play the North's diplomatic games like Dae Jung did, he has called the North's bluff on closing Kaesong and other supposedly "symbolic" gestures that Roo and Dae Jung had "accomplished" with the North.

Yeah, and Koreans blame LEE for it.....Koreans are idiots at democracy...my conutryman might be better off with anarchy.....

Speaking of the crisis over imported American beef in S. Korea and some other issues:

1. Do not bother trying to understand South Koreans logically.

2. Why has there been no mass demonstrations over tainted Chinese foodstuffs? If anything, this is much more serious than imported American beef. (On the other hand, winter is not the best season to hold mass demonstrations in Korea, unless you do not mind getting frostbites.)

3. There has been problems with parasite-infested produce from China. What did the government do? They deferred food inspection to the Chinese authorities. (OMFG! Letting the fox to guard the hen house?!?)

4. A few months ago, series of mass demonstrations over imported American beef. Once the import got going, they were selling like hot cakes! (Thanks, E.Y.!)

5. On N. Korea: Idiocy at its finest. Korean leftists refuse to see what N. Korea as it really is. N. Korea is not that difficult to understand. Basically its goal is to sustain its decrepit regime in whatever way it can. Play up the nuke card on a regular basis to extort as much as you can from S. Korea, US, and Japan. Meanwhile, you know bloody darn well that you face no political threat from the rest of the world, even if you have managed to piss them off with brinkmanship. (If anything, nobody wants N. Korea to implode. In particular, S. Korea and China will face massive humanitarian crisis along their borders if that happens, and neither one of them wants to pay for it. On the other hand, the US has been telling S. Korea to be ready for a possible N. Korean implosion for some time, but S. Koreans have their attention fixed at somewhere else so far ... )

6. On English-mania: Why is it that job interviews and entrance exams require passing English, even for those applicants who are not picked by 'international offices'?

7. On Koguryo-mania: Difficult to explain this unless we delve into how S. Koreans feel about their own history. a) The humiliating end of Yi Dynasty, quickly followed by Japanese annexation in 1910; b) The Imjin War of late 16th century and the Manchu Invasion in mid-17th century; c) Endless political infighting among ruling factions. Overall, the popular notion is that the Yi Dynasty was incompetent. Therefore, its predecessors must be better. What a leap of faith! The Koryo actually performed far worse than their successor. (During the middle Koryo period, it was dominated by military elites. For about 60 years, it was run pretty much like the Medieval Japanese Bakufu. Plus, it suffered from the Mongol Invasion, which was worse than either the Japanese or the Manchus.) As for Koguryo? How many times they got invaded (Why do you think they moved their capital to Pyongyang? LOL.)? Nevermind ... Koguryo had the biggest real estate compared to all of its successors. LOL ... Manchuria was hardly the best place to grow crops (short summer) and anyone who happened to be the king of the hill over there had a vast stretch of borders to defend (how many times has Manchuria changed hands?).

YES,dont try to to understand the Korean logic . that's why my brain is overloaded and now iam the MADMAN

Hey, you've been asking the wrong people - Americans.

As for Asians, it's a whole different story. Thanks to Hallyu, in SE-Asia (at least Thailand Taeguk), not only K-Pop, which is the definition of cool, but also Korean dramas are so loved and adored. Not only modern series (Coffee Prince type), but also historical dramas are popular. In a national channel, Korean historical drams have a fixed timing for two hours on Weekend evenings (18.00-20.00), they're like Daejangkum, Seodongyo, The King and I (Kim Chu Seon) and latest, Lee San. Which means that a large number of Thais (not a huge amount, but large none the less - mostly us Bangkok people), know a fair bit of Korean history. Yeonsangun's period is quite well known, since he's in a lot of drama. Not only that, but more and more teenages today can read and write hangul, too. I'm in the Arts-French program, but about 10-20% of the people in my class (mostly girls) can read and write hangul and speak basic Koreans. Of course, these are the same group of people who are artist's fans - TVXQ, FTISLAND, SJ - you name it.

Nowadays, Korea (and Japan, though less so), is the definition of cool anyway, so don't worry. Your influence in Thailand has a much stronger grip than in the US of A.

I meant Korea's traditional culture. None of it goees out of Korea. Aand Thailand is an amazing country with an unique set of government with their unique set of martial arts called muai thay and muai boron. Also if you really want to know Korean history, dont watch history dramas; the history in those has been changed quite a bit

There are girls I know who are obsessed with K-Pop.

Personally I think K-Pop its ok. Its always the same lyrics and same tone......but its better than chinese pop or rap.

Park as McCarthy? He is much more bloody!

At least South Korea goes on the route of democracy, while Russia and China openly despise it.

Well, look over there! Native Aamericans dying in reservations!!! What are we supposed to do? I know; lets make them build casinos and make them feel socially isolated so they'll all commit suicide or attack normal american citizens!

 

[neutrino]

Appeasement started after Kim DaeJung with his damn SUNSHINE policy that did nothing except fill the stomachs of the North Korean Army(South Korean and Chinese newspapers allege that only minimal benefits went to the North Korean citizens).

I once saw a video seminar hosted by two American professors who studied food aid to the North for over a decade. Depressing conclusions:

1. N. Korea did not increase domestic food production since start receiving international aid. Implication: It has no intention to reform its own economy.

2. N. Korea has been diverting a considerable portion of food for the military. In addition, diverting food aid to global market for cash. Implication: Feeding the starving N. Koreans is not in the top of their list of priorities. (BTW, you need hard cash to buy luxury goods for the elites and finance questionable activities ... LOL.)

3. Lack of unified food aid donation. There have been many occasions in which the South has sent food to the North unilaterally. Tactically bad: Not harnessing the full clout of international humanitarian NGOs against the North. Also, plays into North's strength as N. Korea then has the flexibility to play off one donor against another.

4. The mid-1990s monsoon floods then late '90s droughts have been played up by the North to encourage international humanitarian aid. It worked beautifully. However, it was also convenient for them, as it masked the real issue. The cause of N. Korean food crisis had little to do with bad harvest, but had a lot to do with fundamentally flawed economic policies.

5. Lee's cooler stance towards the North: This was bound to happen soon or later. Even during the Roh Administration, there were photo evidence of donated food packages shipped to military units. The difference between Roh and Lee was that, in the former's time, the gathered evidence was mentioned to the North discreetly. But in the latter's time, Lee went public.