Now Is The Future!

[ruff_hi]

I don't understand. I had a spy in Bombay that successfully destroyed the cockpit there. Why would you be able to launch?

The hammers invested in the cockpit went down but not all the way to zero - I thought I was going crazy but then I thought that it might have been some spy action.

Looking back at the log, I find this entry ... "1932 AD: The production of SS Cockpit in Bombay has been destroyed!!!"

Bombay after the end of the prior turn was in this situation ...

Cockpit: 441/536 hammers - 95 hammers short
Overflow from prior: 45
Base Production: 48
Multipliers: 4.5 (+100% copper, +50% lab, +50% space elevator, +50% buildings, +50% power, +50% capital)

When I got the game back it was 220/536 hammers invested and due to finish in 2 turns. Reconnecting the copper was all I needed to do. I suppose that only half the production (441 down to 220) was destroyed.

 

[jbieksha]

You probably only delayed it. I've noticed spies do not destroy everything. Only a protion of the hammers.

Ruff_hi2 has won spaceship victory after Monty ended his turn.

I'll forward the file so everyone else can see.

Congrats to Ruff_hi for a well played game.

 

[Tim Ford]

Damn those fast workers. You made it by the skin of your teeth Ruff.

We all need to play another game. I am going to e-mail aspyr and find out when BTS is coming out for mac.

 

[ruff_hi]

Damn those fast workers.

I think ordinary workers would have finished the job in 2 turns too - fast workers are called fast because they have 3 movement points, the work (ie build mines) at the same speed as the other workers.

You made it by the skin of your teeth Ruff.

HA! I estimate is that it would take at least 2 more turns for you (or anyone else) to put land units on my land mass. More than enough time for Bombay (or Madrid, Base Hammers 65, multiplier 5.0 for 325 hammers per turn) to build the cockpit from scratch. It would be interesting if I pulled all of my air defense back to Madrid and just hunkered down.

 

[ruff_hi]

As I mentioned to Tim, I am going to write this game up for my web site - go back into my saved games and pick out screenshots, etc. I would really appreciate any input / comments / other that anyone might want to add.

I am thinking of the following parts:

1. Intro to game, design, map, general strategy, comments on teams that developed over the life of the game, intro to India's holdings
2. India 2's war with Spain - huge long term impact as it got me 3 or 4 really good production cities
3. India 1's thinking in declaring war on France / America block - initial impact, final result
4. Result of India 1's demise, impact on India 2, set up for future, pause in game following Dazz's car accident in Dec 2007
5. Spaceship anxiety - space elevator, turns after launch of first part

Items from others I would be interested in adding include ...

1. leader pacts (ie non-aggression pact)
2. teaming (ie France / America)
3. general strategy
4. Germany - America culture war and then fireworks
5. Plans for final part of game
6. Reaction to India 2's first spaceship parts launch in 1928

First page is up ... other pages will take a while longer ... http://ruffhi.atspace.com/PBEM-Future-1.html

 

[Tim Ford]

I think ordinary workers would have finished the job in 2 turns too - fast workers are called fast because they have 3 movement points, the work (ie build mines) at the same speed as the other workers.

Well they fixed the copper mines in 1 turn because I destroyed them all my last turn. So that is fast.

HA! I estimate is that it would take at least 2 more turns for you (or anyone else) to put land units on my land mass. More than enough time for Bombay (or Madrid, Base Hammers 65, multiplier 5.0 for 325 hammers per turn) to build the cockpit from scratch. It would be interesting if I pulled all of my air defense back to Madrid and just hunkered down.

By the skin of your teeth I mean at which point in time I inserted the spy into India. If I had skipped double checking if the Aztecs were building any space parts, I would have had a spy India 5 turns sooner and been able have 24 marines on your island 2 turns ago.

 

[Tim Ford]

I suppose that only half the production (441 down to 220) was destroyed.

Well that sucks. I now consider spies and their ability to sabotage complete bullpoop! Destroyed to me means 0 hammers.

Were those mines the only two sources of copper you had? I thought it would take at lease two turns for you to rebuild the copper mines. In that time France's air-force pounding you would have doubled. Each France was churning out approx. 5 bombers a turn.

I think a mistake I made was leaving jets in carriers. France had 6 carrier groups heading to India. I had jets with them in case they ran into anything unfriendly on the way.

It would be a neat experiment to go back a few turns and replay. Knowing now that spies don't "Destroy" production like the word "Destroy" implies. I wonder if I could have made a enough of an impact on Bombay to prevent the launch. If I could, I wonder how long it could have been prevented. If it would have been long enough.

In the end I officially blame Ruff's victory on my lack of knowledge concerning bullpoop spy game mechanics. The civopedia certainly could have gone more in depth concerning the sabotage ability.

 

[ruff_hi]

It would be a neat experiment to go back a few turns and replay.

I'll take that bet! Frances v India 2 - all other leaders AIs. How many turns do you want to go back? I launched in 1932, 2 yrs per turn ... how about 1920? We could replay from there with the other players resigning (IIRC Alt-Q, leaves an AI in control) so that only you and I are left. The other option is we just use saveconvert and convert the other players to AIs.

I would know that you were coming when I first see your fleet inbound or you start moving bombers my way. I have a spreadsheet that I used to plan out the spaceship building and I think I would have had 6 or 7 parts (out of 13) launched before your 1st or 2nd bombing run. My plan (if I was getting attacked) was to put my two major hammer cities on ship parts, and everything else on either navy or air defense. Also swapping to nationhood to draft. I think that you would have needed a lot more than 24 marines.

 

[jbieksha]

See! I told you to look behind you! Instead you look at Russia and Aztecia and find nothing but units being built.

Your power was so high for both Frances and America, I was doing all I could to be able to alow down any invasion. The only thing I was comfortable with was my Navy was concentrated, while your was spread out. You'd have dificulty landing. But once you did, it would have been over for me quickly.

 

[Tim Ford]

Tim,
I can't log on to civfanatics from here in Iraq so I don't know what is going on with the message boards. Tell them all great game from me. Tell Ruff_hi congratulations.

 

[Tim Ford]

I'll take that bet! Frances v India 2 - all other leaders AIs. How many turns do you want to go back?

I was just talking about everyone replaying it starting from when I put my airforce into England and Aztecia. I could have put more air units there but I kept some with some carriers because I thought the cock pit would be destroyed for sure and I couldn't know which city you would rebuilt it in. I just wonder if more air units would have been able to stop you from getting enough hammers to finish the cockpit that turn. If I had known that the spy only took out half the hammers I would have concentrated all of the bombing on Bombay forcing you too move the cock pit to Madrid. By that time I would have had a spy there as well.

I wouldn't want to replay it with AI's because if I had gotten my spy there three turns earlier I feel I still would have been able to successfully get JB and 1889's support in attacking you.

If we did replay it I would just want to start with the turn where you launched three pieces. Everyone would still be scrambling to attack you, the only thing I am curious about is wether I could have delayed that cockpit like I originally planned.

 

[Tim Ford]

See! I told you to look behind you!

Your look behind you reference was very vague, especially considering a globe is round. I thought you were trying to imply that Dogboy was going to attack me. Which I didn't think was true. If you had said "I just built the apollo program in case you two were trying to launch, I think you should worry about Ruff_Hi more." that would have been a clearer message.

The reason I was investigating you was because I knew Ruff_Hi was going to build it, It was the logical course for him. It was important for me to establish if you were as well because that would have been a horse of different color.

The biggest mistake made was underestimating how fast he could build the damn thing.

 

[Tim Ford]

accidental repost, ignore

 

[Tim Ford]

So I wrote aspyr concerning a BtS release and this is what I got.


"Tim,

First, we appreciate you thinking of us when you think about having games developed for the Mac.

We continually evaluate games to be brought over to the platform, looking at several factors including its popularity, whether the Mac market is interested in the game, whether the company that owns the rights is interested in having a Mac version, and how hard it would be to port over (for example, if a game using the same software engine has already been ported, it becomes much easier for us to have it done). Our customers are one of the sources of determining interest, so we thank you for your mail.

If you have not done so, you can subscribe to our newsletter, which is sent out via email on a monthly basis. This newsletter is where we announce new projects. We also have a project status page at our website that shows what is being worked on.

Regrettably, if a game is not shown on that page, or we have not made an announcement about them, then we have no public comment as to whether we are evaluating it or not.

Have a nice day,
Aspyr Tech Support"


All I asked was if they were currently developing BtS or if they knew if they were planning to or not. A Yes or No answer would have been fine.

anyways… I checked out their site and there is no mention of BtS anywhere. I'm getting a little scared that they might not release it!

I REALLY want to play another game with all of you, I understand that you probably don't want to play Vanilla again. Of Course we all really want to play BtS, but would warlords suffice?

and, if you guys wouldn't mind writting an e-mail to info@aspyr.com and saying that you are a mac player and you demand BtS it might help me out

 

[ruff_hi]

I don't think JB would have attacked me. He and I have been buddy / buddy for the last half of the game. I told him about my projected launch date of 1932 when the game was still at 1920. He was worried about '80 turns to go' and the cancellation of his non-aggression pact with you.

How much did the spy destroying space part cost you? You had to do that as I had enough over-flow from the prior part to build the cockpit even with zero production and no copper multiplier (only 95 hammers short and base overflow was 45).

 

[ruff_hi]

I am taking a break from Civ4 for calendar year 2008 (been saying that for months). However, if I was going to play, I think an always war team based game 3v3 on a team battle map might be fun.

 

[Tim Ford]

I cost 1819 to sabotage the cockpit.

If a warlords always war 3vs3 game is what would keep you involved, I am for it. I assume it would be Dogboy and I, Ruff and JB, and 1889 and ????.

I am ready to start!

 

[ruff_hi]

I cost 1819 to sabotage the cockpit.

So, not something that you could do every round then.

re the balance ... nonono ... You described 2v2v2. I was thinking 3v3, such as ...

TimFord / Ruff / 1889 or Other

v

Dogboy / JB / Other or 1889

- make you play against Dogboy!

 

[Tim Ford]

Oh wait, I am an idiot. 3vs3 means Dogboy and I and possibly 1889 vs Ruff, Jb and possibly 1889.

I am really into that idea! I would be a big fan of starting in the industrial age again. I would also be a big fan of another huge arpeggio map.

Do we want AI?

I call dibs on Bismark, FDR, or churchill

 

[jbieksha]

I was vague on purpose, because I already knew about the spaceship parts. I too underestimated anybody building the parts.

Yes I was more concerned about defending myself against any France and American attacks even though they said they wouldn't attack me. I was not going to attack India until I saw that he was defeated and then take the 3 cities closest to Monty (Calcutta, Lahore and the north city on that island).

It would be another 6 turns before I got any forces over there, which still puts me at 1932 from when I found out.