nvm

Citi's TARP preferred (and some private non cumulative preferreds) are being converted to equity.

On the other hand, B of A raised equity in a secondary offering and will convert some private non cumulative floating and high coupon preferreds (IE their 8.625% preferred which has been a home run investment and totally telegraphed in both Citi and B of A's case btw) into equity instead of converting the 8% non cumulative TARP preferred. I would expect B of A to repay TARP within 12 months since their earnings power is north of $40 billion pre-tax.

I can't see any reason why many would participate in PPIP with market to market changed.

Yeah, when you can claim that your 2007 MBS are still worth the face value at maturity for the purposes of calculating your assets while the cashflow on them is declining, why would you sell them? It's like free license to undertake more risks.

"Oh hey, bummer about that cashflow, but hey, our balance sheet checks out. Let's get drunk like it's 2004."

Tracing where that money goes is what will be interesting. Equities? Commodities? Housing, God forbid...
 
Dunno whether this has been posted before, but...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8092780.stm
UK output sees surprise increase
A salt mine in England
Is increased output a 'green shoot' of recovery?

UK industrial output rose unexpectedly in April - the first month-on-month climb since February 2008, official figures have shown.

Output rose by 0.3% from the previous month, the Office for National Statistics said. Analysts had been expecting output to fall by 0.1%.

Manufacturing rose 0.2% in April, which was also an unexpected increase.

Meanwhile, a respected research institute has forecast that the UK economy may be at a turning point.

Signs of recovery

The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) has estimated that UK economy resumed growth in April and May after a sharp decline of 1.9% in the three months to March.

Martin Weale, director of NIESR, told the BBC that he "expects the official figures to show either that the recession is over or that it is close to over" in the second quarter of 2009.
Is a UK economic recovery in sight?

He says he believes that March represented the "trough" of the recession and that growth was positive, or near zero, in both April and May.

The NEISR has a good record in forecasting monthly changes in GDP. The official figures, covering the period from April through June, will not be published until late July.

And a member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, Andrew Sentance, also says he thinks there are signs of recovery.

"In recent months we have seen some promising signs that the recession - here in the UK and globally - may now be bottoming out," he told Scottish businessmen in Aberdeen.

He added that "we cannot yet predict the exact timing and strength of the recovery which will eventually emerge."

But other economists warned that it might be too early to say the UK economy was out of recession.

'Obstacles'

In addition to the better-than-expected industrial production figures for April, March's figure was also revised upwards to a 0.3% contraction from a 0.6% fall.

The manufacturing output figure for March was also revised upwards to 0.2% growth.

The manufacturing and industrial production figures "generally bode well" for an economic recovery, said Investec analyst, Philip Shaw, who added it was "quite feasible" that there would be a growth in GDP between March and June.

But he said there were still question marks over levels of demand for goods.

"The jury's still very much out on the strength or the shape of the medium-term recovery in the economy," he said.

Manufacturers had been helped by the weaker pound boosting competitiveness said Howard Archer of Global Insight.

But they still faced "serious obstacles" including battling against "muted domestic and export demand, intensified competition and ongoing tight credit conditions," he said.

Industrial production in April was 12.3% lower than in April 2008.

Separately, the ONS said the UK's goods and services trade deficit with the rest of the world had widened to its largest since September last year.

The total trade deficit was £3.014bn in April from £2.716bn in March.
Promising news.
 
Dunno whether this has been posted before, but...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8092780.stm

Promising news.

Or not. The month to month was a micro improvement, the YoY was not. Same thing here in the U.S. concerning retail sales.

The NAR did the same thing when housing prices started tanking. Instead of touting YoY price changes, they switched to month to month comparisons and touted those.

Also, the 600,000 new claims is what, a 25k improvement over new claims last time? Yeah, we're showing modest improvement, and by modest I mean, laughably small.
 
It points to us being closer to the bottom of the trough than the top of the peak, though, even if we're still on our way down.
 
It points to us being closer to the bottom of the trough than the top of the peak, though, even if we're still on our way down.

If you're going to push that line, then based on past recessions we've already reached bottom. I'd err on the side of pessimism considering nothing has fundamentally changed except for government debt expansion and implicit backstop. The regulations are still the same, the players are still the same, the behavior is the same and the private debt levels are almost the same...

Billions in bailouts and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.
 
And I'd like to point out that unemployment has implications towards the profitability of banks. If overall unemployment persists you're going to be staring at a situation where several banks need more capital, which would require the Treasury to dole out more money in an about face of policy desires, which could make our Treasuries less palatable to buyers due to inflation risk in the medium term, which would require a higher yield, which would push up mortgage rates, which would drive up the costs of purchasing a house, which means less people are qualified even at the lowest level, which reduces the profitability of banks by reducing their mortgage re-fi and origination and underwriting income not to mention the securities they're holding, which requires more money from the Treasury...

CreditSuisseResetMarch09.jpg


Did someone mention Option Arm recasts? No? Well the bad news is that they are still out there, still waiting to recast, and unfortunately for the people have them (along with Bernanke and Geithner) any "recovery" is going to push the rate that they pay on the recast way higher. Some people are already lost causes when the recast happens but if the difference between 5% and 7% will push people at the margins.

We're putting the cart before the horse here with metrics of recovery.
 
Guy Goes BERZERK over the economic situation!!!!
HOLY ****!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWu-efNN8PM
You should have written this as a description:

"Stupid guy does stupid stuff.
Yawn."

EDIT: By the way, it sounds like Rage in Favor of the Communist Machine is the gay music this loser played in the background, like around 6:00.

Hey, did Nostradamus predict our bad economy? Or is it in Revelation in the Bible?
 
How to lose on a sure-fire bet

There was a wonderful story in today's WSJ about how some big banks managed to lose some of their hard-earned TARP money.

Let me begin with a little background. A credit default swap is sometimes described as an insurance contract written against the possibility of default of a particular underlying asset. If I buy a CDS and the specified asset defaults, I get to collect money from whoever sold me the contract. If I also have a long position in the asset in question, I might consider buying a CDS written against that asset as an insurance or hedge against the possibility that the asset loses its value.

But I don't actually have to own the asset in question in order to buy a CDS from somebody else. I might want to buy a CDS as a partial hedge against some other asset I hold with which the specified security could be correlated. Or maybe I just feel like making a bet with somebody I think is dumber than I am.

The fun and games begin when multiple contracts get written on a single credit event and the notional value of outstanding contracts on that event-- the total amount of money that is promised to be paid to the buyers of those CDS in the event of a default on the underlying asset-- becomes larger than the par value of the underlying asset itself. Then it would clearly pay the party who sold those contracts to buy the underlying asset itself at par, relieve the original debtors of their burdensome obligations, and be out only $X (the underlying event) rather than some multiple of $X (all the contracts written on the event).

And so the WSJ recounts the tale of a security based on $29 million (par) worth of subprime loans in California, half of which were already delinquent or in default. Betting that the loans weren't worth $29 million sounds like easy money, and the smart guys were willing to pay 80 to 90 cents for each dollar of CDS insurance.

It appears from the WSJ account as if little Amherst Holdings of Austin, Texas was happy to sell the big guys like J.P. Morgan Chase, Royal Bank of Scotland, and Bank of America something like $130 million notional CDS on a $27 million credit event, used the proceeds to buy off and make good the underlying subprime loans, and pocketed $70 million or so for their troubles. The big guys, on the other hand, paid perhaps a hundred million and got back zip.

Said big guys, naturally, are screaming bloody murder, trying to bring in the lawyers to show that Amherst wasn't playing by the rules of the game.

For my money, the first rule we need would be a law, not a rule, that notional not exceed actual.

Barring that, here's another rule I trust: a fool and his money are soon parted.

The best part about this is that banks that received TARP money lost money on the deal while Amherst is bragging about it. Let's see if I have this right? We give banks TARP money so they can restore liquidity to the American economy by shoring up their capital and pursuing loans to businesses and individuals. Instead of doing that they take the money to buy CDS on what seems like a sure thing without reading the fine print.

Who is gonna pay for that? Amherst? I'm sure that JPM, BAC, will like to pull back the curtain of CDS trades in court if the take Amherst there...try to explain why when they are manipulated in a CDS trade it's a bad and illegal thing, but when they manipulate them to their benefit it is good and legal.

This entire event comes as no surprise.
 
“This morning’s closing represents a proud moment in Chrysler’s storied history!”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/business/global/11chrysler.html?_r=1&hp

This is how I know we are kinda screwed. When, after you flush billions of dollars down the drain, set a precedent of having no forethought or foresight to the bailout implications, you consider it a proud day to for the company to be sold off.

And here is an article from 1983...

Chrysler Corporation auto sales are roaring into high gear. And so is the myth of the Great Chrysler Comeback. The resurgence of the once dying automaker has become the favorite example cited by proponents of national industrial policy who call for massive and costly federal efforts to revive what they describe as a desperately ailing American economy. The way they tell the story, Chrysler in 1979 seemed destined for bankruptcy, and now it's showing a profit. What saved Chrysler, we are told, are the $1.2 billion in loan guarantees provided by the federal government—so successful was the timely injection of cash that the company could announce today that it will pay off the remaining $800 million by September. And it didn't cost the taxpayer a penny, did it, they ask gloatingly. Chrysler chairman Lee Iacocca, who came to Washington four years ago with begging bowl in hand, is now in the vanguard of the push for more government intervention in American industry. Federal loan guarantees, import quotas, and a well-defined industrial policy, he promises, will be the key to American corporate success in the years ahead

If it all seems too good to be true, it is because it isn't true. The popular version of the Chrysler bail-out is simply a fairy tale. The bail-out is a bust. Closer scrutiny of it reveals that the "great success" rests on a bedrock of myths and half truths. These myths cloud and distort important issues involved in the larger question of industrial policy and a closer business-government relationship. Confronting the Chrysler myths with Chrysler facts reveals Chrysler's true financial condition and the real impact of those federal guarantees. It shows that if the bailout is indeed the model for an American industrial policy the consequences could be disastrous

Myth No. 1: Government loan guarantees prevented the Chrysler Corporation from going bankrupt.

The truth is that the Chrysler Corporation has gone bankrupt by every normal definition of the word. In the past three years, Chrysler has renegotiated its debts and restructured its organization in a way that greatly resembles a company going through Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Its creditors, like those of bankrupt firms, were forced to swallow sizeable losses.

This was the result of a clause in the Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979 that required creditors to make certain "concessions" to Chrysler. With this clause to exploit and with Treasury Department officials, including then-Secretary William Miller, pressuring its creditors, Chrysler was able to pay off more than $600 million in debts at just 30 cents on the dollar. In addition, the company was allowed to convert nearly $700 million in debts into a special class of preferred stock—paper relatively worthless in the financial markets because the shares earned no dividends and were to be unredeemable for several years. In early 1983, Chrysler reached a tentative agreement with its creditors to trade this preferred stock for Chrysler's regularly traded common stock. However, the creditors still get the short end of the financial stick: the face value of the common stock to be received will almost certainly be less than the face value of the original debt.

Chrysler's creditors are not alone in being socked by the company's quasi-bankruptcy. The firm's workers have paid an even greater price. Despite the fact that the loan guarantees were approved by Congress mainly to protect jobs at Chrysler, the company has sent home nearly half of its employees, cutting its white collar work force by 20,000 and laying off 42,600 of its hourly workers since the loan guarantees were signed into law. Many observers, including Senator William Proxmire (D-Wisc.) complain that the number of employees laid off at Chrysler in this period is at least as large—and may even have been larger—than the number of jobs that probably would have been lost had Chrysler actually been forced into bankruptcy.

The only difference between the actual bankruptcy that Chrysler faced in 1979 and the quasi-bankruptcy that Chrysler has gone through in the past three years is that under this quasi-bankruptcy the federal government is responsible for guaranteeing over $1 billion in Chrysler loans. Chrysler's creditors and employees have paid a price no different than they would have paid in reorganization under the bankruptcy laws. If it has not been the workers and creditors who have benefited from federal generosity, who has? The answer: Mainly Chrysler's shareholders.

But not even all of Chrysler's shareholders benefited: sensible stockholders—the ones who carefully monitored Chrysler's financial and management performance—probably sold the stock well before the bailout occurred. Therefore, only two types of Chrysler stockholders really benefited from the bail-out: (1) less informed investors who either ignored the warning signs of Chrysler's impending bankruptcy or else failed to act on them, and (2) the stockholders who were gambling that the federal government would come to Chrysler's rescue and minimize their potential losses.

The Chrysler version of industrial policy, therefore, fleeced the company's creditors, resulted in a 50 percent reduction in Chrysler's workforce, rewarded the least deserving of Chrysler's stockholders, and let the U.S. taxpayer risk his money in a bankrupt company. This we are told, is the shining example for America's new industrial policy.

Myth No. 2: Federal 1oan guarantees were justified because Chrysler's financial problems were brought on by the federal government.

Although federal regulations have certainly played a part in the financial decline of the automobile industry, these rules apply to every firm in the industry, not just Chrysler. It was Chrysler's management, rather, which put it on the road to bankruptcy. Throughout the late 1930s and into the early 1940s, Chrysler was actually the second largest car manufacturer in the United States, ahead of Ford. The company's problems began shortly after World War II, when it decided to stick with prewar manufacturing and styling methods instead of retooling to meet the expectations of postwar automobile buyers. Ford and General Motors, in contrast, developed a sleek and streamlined design that sold well.

By the time Chrysler's management admitted their mistake in the 1950s, the company had slipped to third place among the nation's automakers. But because Chrysler's new management reacted by emphasizing sales and production over engineering, the firm's cars were little more than delayed copies of Ford and General Motors products. "Chrysler was always into a fad, but always into it at the tail end, after it had crested," says Maryann Keller, automobile industry analyst for Paine Webber.

Even Chrysler chairman Lee Iacocca does not accuse the federal government of total responsibility for Chrysler's plight. "I don't blame regulations for all of Chrysler's problems," Iacocca admitted to a congressional committee. "I think that half of all Chrysler's problems were tough management mistakes." Regulations may have played a part in forcing Chrysler over the edge, but the stage had been set for Chrysler's problems long before seat belts and bumper standards were a gleam in the regulators' eyes.

Myth No. 3: The loan. guarantees cost nothing since Chrysler has not gone bankrupt.

Under the provisions of the Loan Guarantee Act, Chrysler is supposed to compensate the federal government for the risk that the government has taken in making the guarantees. The House Committee on Banking, Finance, and Urban Affairs defined this risk as "the difference between the rate that the guaranteed loans carry and the rate that Chrysler would be required to pay if the loans were obtained without the federal guarantees."[1]

Just how large is the difference between the two rates? In early 1980, Chrysler was able to issue government-guaranteed bonds at an interest rate of only 10.35 percent, while Ford Motor Company was forced to pay about 14.50 percent for its unguaranteed bonds. If Chrysler did not have the loan guarantees, it would almost certainly have to pay a higher interest rate on its bonds than the more secure Ford Motor Company. Therefore, one would assume that Chrysler should be paying the federal government a guarantee fee of at least four percent. Yet Chrysler pays only one percent, or about $12 million a year.

Chrysler attempted to make up the difference by giving the government 14.4 million "warrants," which are certificates that give the government the right to purchase a share of Chrysler stock at $13 a share. Even if the stock price does rise to the point where American taxpayers would be fully compensated for the $300 million in interest subsidies that Chrysler will enjoy during the 1980s, the company is clearly not eager to see taxpayers collecting on those warrants In early 1983, Chrysler publicly demanded that the Treasury Department return the warrants to Chrysler, claiming that cashing in now-valuable warrants would amount to "usury." Due to adverse public reaction, a Chrysler spokesman said that the company "would not press" the demand at this time.

Moreover, Chrysler has petitioned the federal government to reduce the one percent loan guarantee fee it currently pays down to the statutorily mandated minimum of one-half percent. The federal government put more than one billion in tax dollars at risk for Chrysler. But if Chrysler survives it appears that the company is very reluctant to reward Uncle Sam for that risk.

Myth No. 4: Chrysler's top management has taken deep salary cuts until Chrysler's financial problems are resolved.

When Chrysler was petitioning the federal government for the financial assistance it wanted, in 1979, the company announced its Salary Reduction Program. Under this, executive salaries were cut between two and ten percent; Lee Iacocca's salary was reduced to one dollar a year (although it was made clear that, under the program, Iacocca would collect the balance of a recruitment bonus due to him in 1980). If Chrysler's financial performance was adequate after two years, the executives would be eligible to receive retroactive salary payments to make up for these reductions.

Despite the fact that Chrysler lost nearly $500 million in 1981, the Salary Reduction Program ended that year, and executive salaries were restored to their 1979 level. Moreover, the company made retroactive payments to its executives for about two-thirds of the income they lost while the program was in effect, on the theory that its stock price in 1981 was about two-thirds of its 1979 price. Iacocca himself received over $360,000 in salary supplemental payments, and director's fees in 1981—including "amounts paid in accordance with the Salary Reduction Program," according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All of this despite the fact that Chrysler was still losing money. Not that there is anything inherently wrong in paying high salaries; Iacocca probably could be making much more money at a much healthier company. But the much heralded sacrifices made by Chrysler executives did not last long—just about long enough to secure federal support for the company.

Myth No. 5: Chrysler's new-found profitability shows that it is on the road to financial recovery.

Chrysler's supporters were elated when the company reported a net profit of over $170 million in the first quarter of 1983—the largest quarterly profit in the company's history. Lee Iacocca has also announced that the remaining $800 million in federally guaranteed loans will be repaid by September—seven years ahead of schedule. Many observers call this a "comeback." Rumors of Chrysler's resurrection, however, may be premature.

Chrysler claims that cost cutting has been an important factor in the company's success. But Chrysler's version of cost cutting provides a shaky foundation for long-term profitability.

Examples:

* Carry-forward of tax losses. Chrysler's massive losses in 1979, 1980, and 1981 have given the company large tax deductions to cut its tax bills almost to zero throughout the 1980s. Of the $170 million "earned" by Chrysler in the first quarter of 1983, only half actually represents operating profit; the other half is attributable to Chrysler's large loss carry-forward.

* Cuts in research and development (R&D) spending. Chrysler boosted R&D spending from $161 million in 1972 to $358 million in 1979 (or $207 million in 1972-equivalent dollars). But between 1979 and 1982, R&D spending was cut to $307 million (only $133 million in 1972 dollars). R&D includes product planning and design for Chrysler's future models. Slashing such outlays may mean quick paper profits at the cost of future innovation and competitiveness.

* Decreases in capital investment. Industry analysts are concerned that Chrysler is sacrificing long-term capital investment in the interest of short-term profit. "We still have long-term concerns about the company and the fact that during this period of trial and tribulation, they have not spent much money for product, plant, and equipment," says Harvey Heinbach, automobile industry analyst for Merrill Lynch. "This year [1982] Chrysler will have invested $500 million in capital spending compared to General Motors' $8 billion."

* Deferrals of pension costs. In January 1982, Chrysler reached an agreement with the United Auto Workers to defer $220 million in pension fund contributions. The UAW is not likely to allow deferrals to continue indefinitely.

* Decreases in labor costs. In January 1981, Chrysler negotiated special concessions from the UAW that saved the company more than $600 million in 1981 and 1982. The union is now fighting to restore those benefits for its workers. After a threatened strike in the United States and an actual strike by Chrysler's Canadian workers in late 1982, Chrysler was forced to give back many of those concessions. More management climb-downs are expected when the current agreement expires in January 1984, and wage parity with General Motors and Ford workers is an avowed goal of the auto workers union and its members. Currently Chrysler pays two dollars an hour less to UAW workers than do General Motors and Ford. If all of Chrysler's 40,000 hourly workers were paid the union rate, and they worked eight-hour days through the first three months of 1983, then nearly $40 million would disappear from Chrysler's profit in the first quarter in 1983.

Not all of Chrysler's cost cutting has occurred in these five areas, of course. But these samples illustrate that Chrysler's current profitability—as well as its prospects for future profit ability—depends to a large extent upon a set of unique and inherently temporary circumstances.

Myth No. 6: Chrysler's survival has improved America's position in the international automobile market.

One argument made in support of the Chrysler loan guarantees was that it would make it easier for the United States to compete in the world market for cars, since four American companies would be competing in that market instead of three. The following statistics refute this: In 1980, when Chrysler began obtaining its guaranteed loans, Chrysler cars accounted for 7 percent of all automobiles registered in the United States, while other domestic cars accounted for 65 percent, and imported cars accounted for 28 percent. In 1981, when Chrysler received its second "wave" of loans, Chrysler's share increased to 9 percent, imports increased slightly to 29 percent, and other domestic cars slid to 62 percent. Statistics for 1982 generally mirror those of 1981. In other words, Chrysler has increased its market share not by making inroads into foreign competition, but by taking customers away from other domes tic manufacturers.

When Chrysler was on the verge of bankruptcy in 1979, the marketplace was signaling that the slackening automobile market would only support three U.S. car manufacturers. By granting the Chrysler loan guarantees, Congress ignored that signal. If Chrysler survives, it will probably mean that the shrinking automobile market will be shared by four ailing domestic automakers, rather than the two or three relatively healthy car manufacturers that would have emerged had Chrysler been allowed to go into formal bankruptcy.

CONCLUS ION
When the loan guarantee program was being considered by Congress, Chrysler's unions and top management constituted the "visible" constituency, pleading its case in Washington and begging to be pulled back from the jaws of bankruptcy. Unrepresented and unheard was a huge "invisible" constituency. They included:

* Current and future laid-off Ford and General Motors workers, who never understood that their tax dollars were being used to destroy their own jobs in order to save jobs at Chrysler

* Small businessmen and private individuals, who never understood that the Chrysler bail-out would squeeze $1.2 billion out of the credit market, making it difficult and more costly for them to raise business capital or finance a mortgage on a new house, all of which would have created new jobs

* Over 60,000 now laid-off Chrysler workers, who expected the bailout to save their jobs

* American car buyers, who never understood that Ford and General Motors would have taken over much of a bankrupt Chrysler's market and produced cars more efficiently, reducing the cost of domestic automobiles.

The problem with the Chrysler bail-out—in fact, the problem with all "industrial policy"—is that it is necessarily political in nature; the loudest interest groups get the greatest reward, while the scattered and fragmented "invisible constituency" is largely ignored. But a free market is a tangled web of infinite and subtle interaction, in which the full impact of intervention is not always recognized until too late. In the case of the Chrysler bail-out, a big chunk of taxpayer money was committed to a shaky and inappropriate venture. Every American became an involuntary and uncompensated partner in a company whose future is still in doubt. The precedent established is extremely dangerous. On top of this, the bail-out even failed in its purpose.

Prepared for The Heritage Foundation by James K. Hickel a Washington-based policy consultant. Based on: "Lemon Aid," Reason, March 1983. Text appearing in the article reprinted with permission. ©1983 by the Reason Foundation, Box 40105, Santa Barbara, CA 93103.

26 years later and we ARE IN THE EXACT SAME PLACE!
 
All this has happened before, all will happen again
 
"In the first round of repayments" from financial institutions that received TARP money, "the government has actually turned a profit."

Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks

Politifact said:
Admit it, when the federal government decided last fall to spend hundreds of billions to stabilize banks through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, you thought the money was as good as gone.

Not so, President Obama said at the White House on June 9, 2009.

"Several financial institutions are set to pay back $68 billion to taxpayers," he said. "And while we know that we will not escape the worst financial crisis in decades without some losses to taxpayers, it's worth noting that in the first round of repayments from these companies the government has actually turned a profit."

A quick summary of how we got to this point:

As part of the TARP, the government invested about $200 billion in 600 banks across the country, essentially buying up preferred stock.

A lot of banks now want out. The government money came with strings, including restrictions on executive compensation. Plus, there was a stigma attached to participating in the government program.

On June 9, the Treasury Department announced that 10 of the largest financial institutions that participated in the Capital Purchase Program (through TARP) have been approved to repay $68 billion. Yes, they had to be approved to repay the money. The companies had to prove they no longer needed the money, because the government doesn't want them begging for more down the road.

To date, those 10 companies have paid dividends on their preferred stock to the Treasury totaling about $1.8 billion, the Treasury announced. Overall, dividend payments from all of the 600 bank participants has come to about $4.5 billion so far. That's commensurate with the 5 percent (annualized) dividend return that was part of the terms of the program.

Now, the government borrowed the money it invested in the banks, and so dividends from the preferred stock are offset by interest the government has had to pay on its loans. But that interest rate has been lower than the 5 percent dividend rate. So when the companies repay the loans, it will result in some profit to the government, banking analysts told us.

There's another potential profit center. As part of the deal with banks, the federal government received warrants to buy stock at a future date (with the hope that as the economy improved and bank stock value rose, the government could share in the bounty). According to the Treasury announcement on June 9, firms that repay their preferred stock have the right to repurchase those warrants at fair market value. Experts believe that could fetch the government several billion dollars. That's in addition to the dividends.

David John, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said that while it's accurate to say the government is turning a profit on these specific transactions, it was so costly to create the TARP that "you can't say the overall program is a money-maker."

And, John said, the 10 financial institutions that will be repaying the Treasury are among the strongest. It remains to be seen how the others will fare, he said.

"It's way too soon to judge the entire program," John said. "I'd be surprised if it ends up anything better than break-even."

Still, the public too often tagged TARP as a bailout, said John Hall, a spokesman for the American Bankers Association.

"It's as if people thought money was handed out to banks," Hall said. "It wasn't. And it drove us nuts. The government has turned a profit. It made money plus some."

Bank analyst Bert Ely said while the government may end up losing money on investments in some financial firms, it's likely the entirety of the bank portion of the TARP will ultimately turn a profit.

The 5 percent paid in dividends on preferred stock purchased by the Treasury will certainly outpace the interest rate on money borrowed to finance the program, he said. And the warrants could also prove profitable.

"People think the government gave banks money," Ely said. "They made investments in banks."

As for Obama's claim, he is careful to note that the overall program could still cost taxpayers money, but he is correct to say the government turned a profit on the first round of repayments. We rate his statement True.

sorry for the double post, but I thought this was important
 
Mrt--classic trick *screw* trade by Amherst! :lol: Any legit bond trader knows this about mbs.

Just wait till you hear what bond arbs are doing on Chrysler. Either make them whole on their cds or give them more equity on their bonds. Supreme Court and all. Win win (trick *screw*)
 
Mrt--classic trick *screw* trade by Amherst! :lol: Any legit bond trader knows this about mbs.

Just wait till you hear what bond arbs are doing on Chrysler. Either make them whole on their cds or give them more equity on their bonds. Supreme Court and all. Win win (trick *screw*)

No kidding, but hearing that the guys that got "screwed" for being stupid are TARP banks is disheartening. Not to mention that they are whining about it.
 
"In the first round of repayments" from financial institutions that received TARP money, "the government has actually turned a profit."

Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks



sorry for the double post, but I thought this was important

Obama is full of . .. .. .. . on this.
 
politifact.org does their research... they are brutal to people on BOTH sides of the spectrum... oh, BTW did you see the Obameter?
 
[Technical update - wonkish]

Every five years, BEA updates the survey and statistical methodology which underlie the NIPA/GDP estimates. The latest round of revisions is complete and will go into effect with the July GDP report.

A few of the changes, courtesy of Donald Marron:

BEA will introduce better ways of tracking consumer spending. Personal consumption expenditures (PCE) include spending by households and spending by non-profits that provide services to households. In the current system, those two types of spending are combined. In the new system, spending by households will be reported separately. In addition, BEA will report household spending using a more meaningful set of categories (including, e.g.,a category for financial services and insurance).

BEA will break the food category into two pieces: food services (e.g., restaurants) and food and beverages purchased from off-premise consumption (e.g., food from grocery stores – which I will call food-food). Among other things, this should improve the measurement of core inflation using the PCE data. The core PCE will now strip out volatile energy and food-food prices, but not strip out food services. A small change, to be sure, but a step in the right direction.

Measures of real GDP — i.e., adjusting for inflation — will now be benchmarked to 2005. The current benchmark is 2000.

The updates to PCE are welcome, as is the revision to food tracking. As the article stated, this will allow for an alternate method of calculating 'core' inflation using the PCE price index instead of the CPI.

They are also making changes to the survey methodology (sampling, nonresponse correction, etc) which should provide for better Advance estimates.

A pdf summary of the changes is available here.
 
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