OB07 - The First Shall Be Last

We didn't buy the map, we are not planning to play this civ for a longer time and we certainly don't want them to be strong. In fact, I would advice that we burst tech spending instead of city sprawl although both at once are doable.

And I haven't seen the spoiler but I don't think we should read it.
 
Turn 380 and all is well(ish).

I do think we need to get some more cities out so might work towards that.

I also decide that Rhoanna has pissed me off too much and advance a stack on her. Didn't get much further than the hills in our south. We lost two archers to attacks that Gilden would have surely won if he was allowed to defend :mad:

We meet our previous selves.

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Way ahead in score. We need some seerious expansion here.

We can trade with him but the problem is that he will get more points out of the trades than us.

I replaced Writing with Hidden Paths.

We meet Cardith Lorda just ahead of us.

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Well we have to grow more cities, research more techs and get mtoe land if we are any hope of catching Lorda and we don't even know if he is in front. I think pretty much all cities need to be put on military, libraries or settlers.

We havwe plenty of land so can make up some ground

Jet is UP
 
390 Traded Way of the Forests + Knowledge of the Ether to Einon for Code of Laws, Warfare, and Masonry. The trade was even beakers and had more utility to us than to him, and the change to our scores was small. It unexpectedly gave a +4 fair and forthright, bringing Einon up to Friendly and willing to trade monopoly techs. I traded Alteration + map for Philosophy + Trade, also even beakers.

The extra coast tiles on Einon's map (or something hidden about the Trade tech) opened a trade route connection to him. I opened borders, but it only got us 3 commerce from foreign trade routes. I also traded rice for fish, for relations.

With the tech board open from Trade, I traded Knowledge of the Ether (1237) + Way of the Forests (990) to Cardith for both the techs he would trade: Construction (990) + Tracking (990). Not great techs, but the irrigation and Sanitation prereq would be useful.

Rhoanna was backward, but wouldn't take peace for multiple cheap techs. I think we could buy her off if we really wanted to, but I was stingy and didn't offer much. I figured we could keep fighting her off as long as we fought defensively and kept building units.

392 Dies Diei built by Einon, and Rhoanna converted to Einon's and Cardith's religion Order, becoming Good.

396 Heron Throne built by Einon

405 Adopted Guardian of Nature and started Sanitation. Considered switching to Military State, guessing that it would be a good deal for drafting, but it would have taken another turn of anarchy, so I skipped it. Noticed Cardith's borders in the jungle to our west.

Meanwhile...
* fought off waves of Hippopotamuses
* settled two cities and built some workers
* built some units, but we're still short, and could use a Training Yard somewhere
* finished buildings that were in progress when I started
* queued 3 Libraries. The Great Library is still up, and we have Marble. Otherwise I was lax about specialists, but anyway it will take a while for the next great person unless we run a lot of them. I thought we might try for Great Library + National Epic in the holy city. It's a little low on production, but food is solid and I'm building more mines now.
* Built a Mage Guild in the capital so that we can start baking some Adepts. (We lost the one we had in the holy city when the Hippus sacked it.) But I'm not sure what spells would be good for us besides fireballs, and those are a little ways away.

410 The top two known scorers are Einon with 1056 and us with 683. On the demo screen we're second in food, pop, and production, so Einon must be the guy to beat.
 

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Guardian of Nature and Sanitation should help us grow but it is worrying that Einion is getting points faster than us. Agree that a training yard would be helpful but where? Great Library would be a decent play as well. We can probably go Forbidden Palace as well.

Roster
Ozbenno
Jet
Conroe - UP
Imhotep
Diamondeye
 
I'm going to need to be skipped this round. I caught some sort of bug and I'm pretty much under the weather at the moment. Don't think I've got the energy or the focus to play a set ...

Looks like some good sets have been played! :goodjob: I do find it ironic that Einon is still in first place, given all of our discussions. Makes me wonder how bad the last place civ is doing. The GL and FP are good ideas. Wonders add 16 points IIRC.
 
The margin we are behind Einon is quite large. Will be a hard task to close the gap. The demo screen shows we lack land, as we are only 5th in that category.

Right into the set Cardith Lorda gets bold.

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I tell him to get off. However I shuffle some gold for our dyes.

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Our former selves sport nice religious heroes. Our buildup wasn't that bad it seems.

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We meet a probable contender for our future homeciv, if ever we get Einon: Sandalphon.

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As he is quite backwards I trade techs with him, at the usual FfH AI screw you over price:

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That one was enough though.

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He might be in for trouble anyway...

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Interesting, but useless event.

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We killed some Hippus' intruders, but we have now reached a stage like it was at the western front in WW I. All dug in in trenches. We need more land. TGL in 11.

Imhotep
 
At the start of the turn we are 348 points behing Logos.

Otherwise it was just trying to grow, getting some more troops online. We had some highly promoted warriors on sentry duty up north, so I brought them down to be upgraded to swords (one is still hanging arounf waiting til we have the cash).

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Founded a new city.

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We get the Great Library. I also start Forbidden Palace up north.

I played until Currency came in. Research is put on Way of teh Wise (cheap and good for points). Priesthood might be another option. There are 4 as yet undiscovered civs, so maybe even Optics.

Last turn in, I repulsed Rhoanna's latest attempt. It earned promotions for many of our troops (including Gilden and our new uber-sword for CR). Einon is now 353 points ahead, so we're going to have to take out Rhoanna (or Cardith?), so lets get moving and attack.

We have more land to fill as well. Another settler due in 1, can seal off more land in the west. One duer in 7 to fill in the north. We can get more started as well.

Roster
Ozbenno
Jet - UP
Conroe - On Deck
Imhotep
Diamondeye
 
Einon is now 353 points ahead, so we're going to have to take out Rhoanna (or Cardith?), so lets get moving and attack.
I realize its been awhile since I've looked at a save, but why not just attack Einon, instead? Do we know where his lands are? What does the power graph look like? Attacking Einon lowers his score while boosting ours. Is it even feasible?
 
We (as yet) don't know where his lands are and he has Valin sniffing around our lands, so we doubly don't want to touch him at the moment. If he was close, it would be the best course of action though. He may be the other side of Cardith. There is no power graph in FfH as well.

He is far enough ahead that we could take out Rhoanna completely before we got ahead in score (although I didn't check how many cities she has). Coming back as the Hippus wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (unless they we didn't finish them off properly) as they are one of the better warring civs.
 
Lurker Comment:

Actually you do know where Einon is since you had a centered map when you were playing him; you can combine the minimap from your last Elohim turn with the one from your current turn to locate his capital. And since you can see a bit of his culture to your immediate West you can guess a possible route through his territory, assuming it's continuous:

Spoiler combined minimap :
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So it might be worthwhile to scout over there and see if he's a viable target.
 
Lurker Comment:

Hmmm, I actually thought it was Cardith's culture we could see to our west but I don't have the sabve to check. If it is the Elohim, we have the option of trying to mget peace with Rhoanna (would have to take one city at least I think) and then piling on Einion. We have no counter to Valin though.
They both have cities to your west -- Einon's city is North of Cardith's and a little harder to see. You'd definitely want to scout the area some before making the decision to attack though.

Spoiler area to the west :
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433 There is a power graph. It says, "you suck, Thessa. You suck the marrow, plasma, and soul clear out of this chart, and your excuse for an army is a pitiful assembly of Keebler elves, garden gnomes, Smurfs, and Will Ferrell."

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I agree that we should go military, but it will take a while to prepare, since we're building things like Courthouses and Lighthouses. Ahem.

We can probably go to war against Rhoanna just by amassing units with our current techs, but I think we should be researching military too.
Sorcery (25) gives us Maelstrom and Poisoned Blade, and with Elementalism (9) Fireballs. We are Arcane.
Smelting (15) hopefully would give +1 Melee from Iron, then IW (20) for Champions and Lumbermills.
Animal Handling (11) Rangers and Satyrs. Good for fast movement from the northern cities, and works with Poisoned Blade. Einon and Cardith both know it but won't trade it yet. Then Feral Bond (22), but I think that's expensive for 1 hero and maybe another hero much later.
Bowyers (25) Longbows with +1 attack from Dexterous, but then Horsmene are +40% Archery.
Priesthood (9) Priests with Medic II and disposable Tiger pets, and we do already have a lot of temples.

Smelting is tempting. I think we're probably big enough to find Iron, and +1 to Swordsmen and to cheap Warriors would be great. But I think if we attack with just those, we'll still lose a lot of units. So I decide to head straight for Maelstrom.

I leave the builds alone, except for the Lighthouse in Hyll, since there are only 43/240 hammers in it, and the city already has a large food surplus. I build the National Epic and units there instead.

I take the Fawn in our new city and start exploring west. Open borders with Cardith so we can snoop around there, too. It unexpectedly gives us a large commerce boost, 22 GPT.

I don't get too much explored, but when I pass through Einon's nearby city Oriel, I see that it's defended by two strength 5 Disciples.

435 Great Serpent constellation event, Ashen Veil only.

Sandalphon makes peace with Cardith.

437 A dialog box says "Hear me, mortals, and heed me well. Whispers of forgotten lore have found my ears, the currents of time flows through my veins with every beat of my heart and bear visions of death and despair... ... As the wickedness of man takes hold of him, darkness will start to engluf his world. Af first he will see nothing, only a few of the most gifted will even sense the change. The world will go on as it has, for a time, but the seed of its downfall has been sown..."

A two-headed cow is born in Eaca. I decided it's a bad omen for +2 armageddon, just because most of the civs we know are good.

A barb galley appears in the northwest, so I have to build a couple Triremes, then replace our work boats.

441 Settle two production cities in the forested area in the middle and put them immediately on Warrior loops. I'm building a lot of Warriors because they're so much cheaper than Swordsmen, and I'm trying to pull an attack stack together, and we do have some Swordsmen. I started one more Settler to grab the mana resource to our west before Einon gets there. I accidentally am producing one more Settler on top of that. Oops. Maybe that one could go on top of the east coast Bananas. I queued a Trireme in Hyll to defend a city there.

Finish the Heroic Epic in Bruti and put it in a Swordsman loop.

442 Einon cancels the Rice for Fish, but I renegotiate for Rice for 5 GPT. Even better!

449 Finish the Forbidden Palace. Catacomb Libralus is built by someone, thankfully not Einon.

450 Sorcery

I don't see any good tech trades available. The great sage from Arcane Lore is available, but I suggest Smelting to see if we can get the Iron promotion before attacking. Meanwhile we have one Adept that can upgrade now, plus two new ones, and the capital on an Adept loop. I'm not sure how long they'll take to mature.

Great person in 4 turns. I tried to get us either a sage or a prophet.
 

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