October 2020 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[Bob Newbie]

Seems like the spy thing goes a bit too far.. I think it would have made more sense to just limit what operations could be performed if you're in an alliance with that person.
Like for example you can steal tech boost, but you can't pillage their industrial zone or breach their dam.

 

[steveg700]

On the other hand I don't like the spy change. Allies in real life spy on each other a lot. Rather, I think they should make these changes

What exactly is a real-life alliance? NAFTA?

What alliance has such a relationship where they're blowing up each others' dams and factories, raiding each others' museums?

If you want an allies' techs, form a research alliance. If you want some gold, form an economic alliance.

Grievance-free espionage was a pretty obvious abuse of alliances. I won't say I'm delighted with the change, for reasons stated previously, but they did *something*.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

I like the GC nerf NOT nerfing the movement, honestly. The +1 move thing is GC's defining feature. Let them nerf the other things. Perhaps Commandante should REPLACE Great Generals instead, so you can't get both? Although I wish they left the hacienda alone.

I don't know if people like or not + 1 movement. I've just said I subjectively prefer a different approach to Civ design in general (I have explained why a few posts above). If people like this bonus then it should stay. I am not the center of the world That's all.

 

[Kibikus]

The alliance/spying change seems really bizarre to me, even ignoring how realistic it is historically. What Firaxis have done is make it even less appealing to get an alliance than before. And alliances weren't that strong, not even essential for a diplomatic victory. Especially when the trade-off is all the siphoned gold, the tech boosts, the great works, the rockets disrupted, etc.

 

[kb27787]

Gran Columibia... meet the nerf hammer (well deserved).

I wish they would've added one thing instead (although no spying on allies, IMO, is a good change).
No longer able to declare war on city states if the suzerain is an ally

 

[pokiehl]

Anyone know where in the database the "no spying on alliances" thing is coded?

@Laurana Kanan maybe?

Seems to be hardcoded...

 

[Linklite]

The alliance/spying thing seems like a heavy handed attempt to fix a [minor] grievance that I have - allies always seemed keener to spy on me than they are on the enemy. Still, throw the baby out with the water...

Seems that endgame alliances are now dead, though. No one wants to get completely locked out of preventing a Science Victory...

 

[Tuvok694]

Start the game as a MP game but fill all slots but yours with AIs.

Thank you for your answer. As I have never used any of the multiplayer functionality, I think I will just ignore that pirates thing.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Thank you for your answer. As I have never used any of the multiplayer functionality, I think I will just ignore that pirates thing.

I got it to work by creating a local game. You don't have to go to the muliplayer option with the "?" saying it has a new mode. The Pirates are in a dropdown option

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I fine with the changes I guess but I wish they would acknowledge that the World Congress is a bit pants and then fix it, by far my biggest issue.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Thank you for your answer. As I have never used any of the multiplayer functionality, I think I will just ignore that pirates thing.

I tried setting up this for Singleplayer both as Hotseat game and as Local Network one. Either option works flawlessy, with the the latter having the advantage that you don't need to extra-confirm each new round...

 

[SammyKhalifa]

How do you pick up the treasures you find? I drove my boat on top of one and nothing seemed to happen.

 

[8housesofelixir]

How do you pick up the treasures you find? I drove my boat on top of one and nothing seemed to happen.

You need to "pillage" them.

 

[tedhebert]

Seems like the spy thing goes a bit too far.. I think it would have made more sense to just limit what operations could be performed if you're in an alliance with that person.
Like for example you can steal tech boost, but you can't pillage their industrial zone or breach their dam.

My opinion, exactly. Allies just don't really sabotage each other... Gamewise, it seems interesting to me to be able to spy science, steal great works. Maybe even sabotage spaceports, since it's pretty much the only defense you've got
VS Science victory. But the rest should be off limits. OTOH, I can understand if it became just too complicated to filter the missions from the way this is coded.

The thing is, I play almost all my games on huge maps 12 civs. So, no, it's NOT like standard map where you can be allies with just everyone. You have to choose the 5 you want. Also, the choice is not entirely yours, since the only
bonus from being allied is Trade Route bonuses, and some civs will simply be too far for your trade routes to reach.

I don't understand why they took time to make this fix that I've never really heard asked for here on civfan, and NOT work on stopping your allies to declare war on the CSses which you are suzerain. How can you block science syping
but not attacking my allied city-stated ? Very weird to me

Anyways. not in love with this one. But I'm good with pretty much everything else in there. And yes, no matter how much some people want to deny it, GC was really OP. In too many ways.

Finally, happy to see a fix for the Nihang problem. Well done !

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Would have liked to see a marginal change to Maya, they're an interesting gameplay concept but aren't quite there.

 

[Arianrhod]

Unwarranted Gran Columbia nerf.

It's barely a "nerf" in the first place. The stuff they neutered was the stuff GC does not need to win in the first place, and that came online after they had already won; the things that actually made them overpowered were basically untouched.

Nothing in the patch notes will change the fact that GC is still a top-tier Civ. The only reason to be upset over this is if your ideology is that "nothing should be nerfed, ever, no matter how overpowered it is". Which... reflects an individual who has no place whatsoever in discussions of game balance.

 

[steveg700]

Wasn't there supposed be some change so that civ's without religious abilities wouldn't go after holy sites aggressively? That was mentioned in the preview video.

 

[EmJayLambert]

I guess the spy/ally thing will make me think twice about allying people. Happy to be friends but might just leave it at that if there's more advantage to be had by spying rather than allying.
You can get Science boosts by spying, but is this comparable to the increased Science from a Research Alliance? Worth thinking about...

 

[Nerevatar]

Anyone know if this patch breaks save games? Been staying in offline mode just in case, but the AI changes seems worthwhile.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

It was a very strong improvement on top of a very strong civ. It was more like a cherry on the top, now it's half a cherry on the top.

Is it a "very strong" improvement though? It basically does the same thing as a Mekewap and unlocks 3 eras later. A Mekewap benefits from all unimproved resources while this thing only from improved plantations. Furthermore, if you're a warmonger, you will have a legion of cities, not every single one of them needs to grow big, so the Hacienda is so unsynergistic with the civ that if you remove it completely from the game, nothing is changed. The nerf is very weird.

Oh, and the change that disallows allies to spy on one another is also weird.