Office of the Judiciary - Term 4

[disorganizer]

cyc: i just meant in general of course >-)
just wanted to know how we would handle this. i neeever would think of moving kashmirs capitol anywhere ;-)

 

[Cyc]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[Eklektikos]

I'm taking my current line because regardless of the conceptual effects of moving a provincial capital it really has no effect on the playing of the game whatsoever. I do think that a new governor would have a tough time persuading the electorate that moving a long established provincial capital was a good idea, in the same way that the proposal to rename Thebes failed at the beginning of this term.

 

[Shaitan]

I agree that moving a capital is more severe than changing a city name. In RL city names evolve and change over time. Provincial (state) capitals rarely move. Eklektikos' suggestion is still fine though. Capital moves would have to be suggested by a gov during the first week of his term. Since this is more intense than a city rename, perhaps a 2/3 majority would be required.

Disorganizer - if you'd like to pursue this just open up a thread and post a link here.

 

[disorganizer]

no i just wanted to get rid of my ideas ;-)
what would happen at the moment if someone just declares this? as it is not mentioned in the constitution (the whole province thing isnt, as a governor can also not live in his province at all).

 

[Almightyjosh]

Originally posted by Eklektikos
I do think that a new governor would have a tough time persuading the electorate that moving a long established provincial capital was a good idea, in the same way that the proposal to rename Thebes failed at the beginning of this term.

Yeah, well, just cos I had no idea what I was doing and had been playing the demogame for like 4 hours and was trying something new and got my ass kicked in a poll cos I had no friends and it was a stupid idea anyway. The next one'll work, you'll see...
I'll change Enke to:
"seeenoughpeoplethinkimoknowandthisisnotabigcitysothere",
a long name, but it makes a point.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by disorganizer
I request the judical review of a current situation which is unsatisfying for all kashmir cities:
Our governor is here (sometimes) and with this does not fall under absent rules.
But he seems to ignore or not to see the requests brought up by his mayors.
This lead to a unsatisfactory situation in the last turnchat:
* though a production change from factory to hospital was proposed, the factory was built (in the middle of a park!)
* a proposed railroading did not take place. instead, other unrequested tiles are worked on

what can be done?

We cannot review these activities (or lack of them). However, if a governor is ignoring requests and inquiries from the citizenry then you could bring charges against him.

Originally posted by disorganizer
no i just wanted to get rid of my ideas ;-)
what would happen at the moment if someone just declares this? as it is not mentioned in the constitution (the whole province thing isnt, as a governor can also not live in his province at all).

Nothing or something.

It depends on the citizens' reaction to it. If they don't care then it would get moved. If they do care then it could go to court under the general citizen approval article if he forced it through. Barring any actual legislation, I'd simply recommend a poll be held before any governor tried to move the capital. Safety first, ya know?

 

[Eklektikos]

lol! If you even think about changing the name of Enkephalonika I'll ask Shaitan to lend me all his old "work in progress" copies of the Constitution and then I'll drop them on you from a great height - and trust me, that would hurt!

 

[disorganizer]

josh: i think it was more the name you choose than that you chose a name ;-)
i would propose taking "---" as a city name. or maybe "the city formerly known as enkephalonika" ;-)

 

[Eklektikos]

Oi! I only just named the damn place... HANDS OFF!!!

 

[Almightyjosh]

What about if I name it
"needs-a-name and is not going to get one"

 

[chiefpaco]

I thought I would start here with this question. Is it ok to use Mapstat now that the world is discovered? And Apollo?

I can see that both save a manual count we could do anyway. But is it realistic within the game?

 

[Shaitan]

I'm not familiar enough with them to give an opinion. What do they do?

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Judge Advocate Notes

A lot of topics were brought up in the past 24 hrs. Here are my comments:

Originally posted by disorganizer
I request the judical review of a current situation which is unsatisfying for all kashmir cities:
Our governor is here (sometimes) and with this does not fall under absent rules. But he seems to ignore or not to see the requests brought up by his mayors. This lead to a unsatisfactory situation in the last turnchat:
* though a production change from factory to hospital was proposed, the factory was built (in the middle of a park!)
* a proposed railroading did not take place. instead, other unrequested tiles are worked on
what can be done?

The Judge Advocates office can take no action in this matter as there is nothing to review from a Judicial sense.

As to what can be done, you could call for a formal investigation, which would bring my office into play, or you could take advantage of the pending elections to try to force change.

As the laws are written today, the Governor is not under formal obligation to follow any instruction just because it comes from a Mayor. However, the citizens and mayors of that province may well decide that this Governor is not fulfilling their wishes.

Originally posted by disorganizer
URGENT:
discussion on one-position nomination:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=27996

i would like the judicacy to take this to an emmendment if we decide to change it. our current nomination-phase really suffers from this crap. i wonder how this article slipped through.

Again, there is no Judicial review necessary here, as the law is quite clear as written.

Should the proposed "double standard" change become a sponsored proposal, I will expidite my review.

Originally posted by chiefpaco
I thought I would start here with this question. Is it ok to use Mapstat now that the world is discovered? And Apollo?.

Given the state of the world today, and that MapStat is approved for GOTM, I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed. The same data could well be determined manually, and MapStat simply simulates a large department of government folks compiling the data.

 

[chiefpaco]

Originally posted by Shaitan
I'm not familiar enough with them to give an opinion. What do they do?

They are 2 utilities (incidentally written by Lovro and me) that count up and can calculate domination and cultural victory conditions of a saved game. They can tell us how close we are to victory.

I would be against using them before discovering the entire world. Now I think it just could simulate a team of experts studying our land and our culture to forecast our victory. It basically saves us manually counting the squares and culture points.

However, it could be seen as an unrealistic external component, which is why I ask.

 

[Shaitan]

The Judicial Log has been updated with this Review.

 

[Shaitan]

Chiefpaco - As they are only tabulating known data I don't see any problem at all with their use.

 

[Cyc]

Qoute:
Given the state of the world today, and that MapStat is approved for GOTM, I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed. The same data could well be determined manually, and MapStat simply simulates a large department of government folks compiling the data.

Oh no! It's started already. Phoenaticans replaced by computers!

 

[Shaitan]

A review is needed for this proposed poll for a change in the Code of Laws. The last judicial member to review shall post the poll if it has passed review.

 

[Almightyjosh]

I am thinking about part of the constitution that I would like to see changed. It is only an idea at the moment, and only involves a change to one article.
The change is to Article D:

Current:
Article D. The Executive Branch is headed by the President, who shall be the designated player of the game, and shall include a council of leaders, each of whom heads a department that is responsible for one major facet of the country. These departments are Domestic, Foreign, Military, Science, Culture and Trade. Each of these departments will be generally responsible for the items found under the respective Advisor in the Civilization III game and esoteric aspects that fall under their department name.

Proposed:
Article D. The Executive Branch is headed by the President, who shall be the designated player of the game, and shall include a council of leaders, each of whom heads a department that is responsible for one major facet of the country, and governors. The departments are Domestic, Foreign, Military, Science, Culture and Trade. Each of these departments will be generally responsible for the items found under the respective Advisor in the Civilization III game and esoteric aspects that fall under their department name.


This proposal basically makes Governors part of the executive, the only effect of which is that they get a council vote. Governors are elected officials and are charged with responsibilities that cover many disiplines, making them even more suited to the executive than narrowly focused department leaders (not meant as insult). Furthermore, Article E speaks of the "legasltive responsibilities" of governors, of which there are none apparent. This is a nessisary change as currently all legislative power rests either with the executive as council votes or with the congress as citizen polls. What is called the senate in the constitution has no role to play as a legislator or a house of review. Either we incorporate it into the executive or we set up a 'council of governors' with clear powers of legislation and review.

This council is what is proposed in Article I of the constitution, but does not seem to be in effect and even then is only for changes in the constitution which are rare. Changes to the COS and COL require no senate input whatsoever.

(EDIT) IN FACT, the word Senate appears only 3 times in the whole constituion, COL and COS. This is totally unsatisfactory.

Supplimentary Info:
Article E. The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses. The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of the cities and lands of a province in addition to legislative responsibilities. The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the citizenry.

Article I. The number of votes cast in the most recent presidential election shall constitute a census of citizens (the Congress). A majority of the Congress shall be required to amend the Constitution. A 2/3 majority of the Senate shall be required to ratify said amendment.