Official announcement: Hot off the presses. Next Civ game in development!!!!!!!

Humankind is overall not a great game. It's kind of fun for the first one or two playthroughs, but then it's just boring. Every game is the same, nothing really matters, and you basically can't lose. Meh. The combat is neat, but it's also kind of too much. Combat in Civilization VI already takes long enough!

Anyway, we're much more likely to see the next game use Unreal Engine than Unity since MMS used Unreal Engine. And Humankind's engine is just Unity, so there's no reason to license anything from Amplitude/Sega.
 
Humankind is overall not a great game. It's kind of fun for the first one or two playthroughs, but then it's just boring. Every game is the same, nothing really matters, and you basically can't lose. Meh. The combat is neat, but it's also kind of too much. Combat in Civilization VI already takes long enough!

Anyway, we're much more likely to see the next game use Unreal Engine than Unity since MMS used Unreal Engine. And Humankind's engine is just Unity, so there's no reason to license anything from Amplitude/Sega.

Humankind is IMO really bad 4X game in almost all aspects except combat, in which I'd say they went in much better direction than Civ5 - 6. The problems of combat are mainly of the technical rather than conceptual nature:
- Horribly unclear interface and rules
- Too restrictive terrain, with too many cliffs everywhere, forcing way too opressive and frustrating bottlenecks and narrow corridors everywhere. This is actually the problem of the campaign map (as battlefields are based on the campaign map), resulting from too many damn height levels and generating cliffs between all but the smallest height level differences. In the end making maps feel absurdly labyrinthine, restrictive and claustrophobic, especially on the batlefield.
- Too many damn units on too small battlefields, quickly cluttering all space, which is awful when combined with the previous issue. As a result, horrible logistic issues of civ5 - 6 are abstracted away from army's movement across the world, but they are even more frustrating once the actual combat starts. Bonus problem of too many damn units is making battles too damn long and mentally exhausting.

Still, their combat system would have some great advantages, once you gave it decent interface, sane map design, and sensibly balanced, non overwhelming amounts of units. On the campaign level, it allows armies to traverse the world in stacks, so it makes for one click on the campaign map instead of 5 - 10, greatly reducing tedium; reduces turn loading times to the shocking degree; avoids logistical horror, constant traffic jam and visual clutter of dozens of units spamming the campaign map; and last but not least, it is WAAAY easier to make AI capable of offensively threatening human player this way, instead of programming it to drag dozens of stupid individual units across Vietnam of logistics. On the battlefield level, it makes for much more emotional 'big decisive battles' instead of 1UPT vibe of endless skirmishes. It is also conductive to better AI performance, because it separates tactical combat 'framework' from everything else, instead of forcing AI to juggle every individual unit every turn along every economic decision in every city on the planet. No wonder turn times in Civ6 are vastly longer than in HK despite worse graphics.

My dream would be Humankind's combat system reworked to remove of all its feadache and frustration, make its battles as 'clean' and compact and possible (with the optional auto resolution of battles). Simultaneously allowing short but satisfying bursts of tactical challenge and glorious victories when you wanna fight, and as little pain when you don't really wanna (manually) fight. Compared with 1UPT, which forces you to micromanage a ton of tedious, time - consuming stuff all the time, for moderately climactic payoff. That's what aggravates me the most in 1upt, I think - as a player who prefers large scale strategy over minutiae of tactical combat, I can't even minimize the amount of time I spend with the combat system. I just have to individually juggle dozens of units every turn, just to move them across the map, just to fend off endless waves of always chaotic evil nameless barbarians, must manually fight every minor skirmish across the globe once AI wages yet another impotent war against me, etc. In Humankind I can just build few stacks of units, do nothing with them in times of peace and transportation and put them in some place with no traffic jam, and in case of war either auto resolve battles or manually fight them. I respect Humankind's army system for minimizing all this pointless, tedious, time wasting busywork, and at least trying to focus on what should matter - the pure joy of military victory - even if it doesn't quite succeed.
 
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Last two livestreams have had that shelf full of gadgets and statues.
Some have been seen for years like the barbarian from CivRev, but I think now they have new ones never been seen before.

Like the crusader knight, the sage/monk-like statue with a mule and the female warrior.

Could they be Civ 7 concept art statues?

Or just generic statues they brought from a shop?
 
I wonder who gets to be the "eclectic statuary" purchasing agent
 
Last two livestreams have had that shelf full of gadgets and statues.
Some have been seen for years like the barbarian from CivRev, but I think now they have new ones never been seen before.

Like the crusader knight, the sage/monk-like statue with a mule and the female warrior.

Could they be Civ 7 concept art statues?

Or just generic statues they brought from a shop?

The female warrior is Boudicca, isn't it? We're getting Boudicca again in Civ 7 at release :p
 
The female warrior is Boudicca, isn't it? We're getting Boudicca again in Civ 7 at release :p
I'm going to need a visual inventory of those shelves for Leader Poster -type analysis.
 
The female warrior is Boudicca, isn't it? We're getting Boudicca again in Civ 7 at release :p
Didn't we also get her at release for Civ 6, as a Great General? :p
 
I would like to see Civ bonuses stop being paragraphs of tile bonuses for specific terrain. No other game in this series has had factions so dependent on their starting location. I really dislike it.

This is why I only play “generalist” civs like Germany or Rome
 
I don't play civ games unless they have a giant death robot with arms.
Civ 5 didn't. It was horrible.
CivBE didn't either. Golem was armless. ANGEL was armless. CARVR had arms but he was a mid tier unit.
Civ 6 finally got a GDR with arms!

Here's hoping this next civ game has a GDR with arms too. Because armless GDRs are terrible.

Good nickname + post -combo
 
It's almost May.. 🙂

Civ 6 was announced May 11th.

I wonder if we get next civ announcement soon!
I'm wondering this too. Tbh I was fairly convinced we weren't going to get Civ VII this year due to the Leader Pass. It feels odd to add in this last content and then release a whole new game >6months after it's wrapped up.

But that announcement was just so odd to mention if they're not going to follow it up. It was a clear "start" to the hype train...and FXS is usually tight lipped until right up to a few months before the release. That just seems to be the new model with any new content/media as I long waits don't fit well in the fast paced world of SM.

So this is all to say that we might get something in May but I have no idea...here's to hoping!!
 
I think if we don't get the announcement in May or early June it is safe to assume the usual schedule is not happening (since I refuse to believe we'd have to wait until 2024 0_o)
 
Still, their combat system would have some great advantages, once you gave it decent interface, sane map design, and sensibly balanced, non overwhelming amounts of units. On the campaign level, it allows armies to traverse the world in stacks, so it makes for one click on the campaign map instead of 5 - 10, greatly reducing tedium; reduces turn loading times to the shocking degree; avoids logistical horror, constant traffic jam and visual clutter of dozens of units spamming the campaign map; and last but not least, it is WAAAY easier to make AI capable of offensively threatening human player this way, instead of programming it to drag dozens of stupid individual units across Vietnam of logistics. On the battlefield level, it makes for much more emotional 'big decisive battles' instead of 1UPT vibe of endless skirmishes. It is also conductive to better AI performance, because it separates tactical combat 'framework' from everything else, instead of forcing AI to juggle every individual unit every turn along every economic decision in every city on the planet. No wonder turn times in Civ6 are vastly longer than in HK despite worse graphics.
So basically what you describe here is having a combat system similar to that of Heroes Of Might And Magic, where combat is performed on an arbitrary combat map separated completely from the world map (in all but visual theme). Which is something I would love to try (and have been championing for a long time), but which would also be a very radical change to the game, and something I think some players would be strongly opposed to.
 
So basically what you describe here is having a combat system similar to that of Heroes Of Might And Magic, where combat is performed on an arbitrary combat map separated completely from the world map (in all but visual theme). Which is something I would love to try (and have been championing for a long time), but which would also be a very radical change to the game, and something I think some players would be strongly opposed to.

Have you played Humankind? Because it is not how it works, in fact: when stacks meet on the campaign map, the separate 'battlefield arena' is delineated on the campaign map, within which you wage actual battle, the borders of which limit such things as retreat and reinforcements (I don't know how to describe it better). You don't fight on a separate map in a separate minigame. So it's an interesting hybrid solution between direct on-map warfare of 1UPT and separate combat maps, as you combine tactical battles, logistical simplicity, and everything happening on the same map, without HoMM style separate battle maps.

The fundamental idea is imho great Humankind's issues mainly involved terrible interface, map readibility (seven elevation levels gg), unclear rules, and way too many units compared to the size of those arenas, so they get completely cluttered very quickly.
 
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Have you played Humankind? Because it is not how it works, in fact: when stacks meet on the campaign map, the separate 'battlefield arena' is delineated on the campaign map, within which you wage actual battle, the borders of which limit such things as retreat and reinforcements (I don't know how to describe it better). You don't fight on a separate map in a separate minigame. So it's an interesting hybrid solution between direct on-map warfare of 1UPT and separate combat maps, as you combine tactical battles, logistical simplicity, and everything happening on the same map, without HoMM style separate battle maps.

The fundamental idea is imho great Humankind's issues mainly involved terrible interface, map readibility (seven elevation levels gg), unclear rules, and way too many units compared to the size of those arenas, so they get completely cluttered very quickly.
Aside from the problems mentioned, the 'tactical map' or 'separate battle mechanic' method used by Humankind (and Test of Time, another Civ-variant 4x game) has several inherent problems no matter how well the interface and map generation work:
1. It takes you out of the Main Game and into a sub-section of the game, which is the direct opposite of the trend in Civ to put everything possible on the Main Map, including buildings, districts, and all units.
2. It slows down the main game enormously. In Humankind, in the late game, it is not unusual to have several battles in a single turn, which can make that one turn last several times longer than an ordinary turn as you fight out each battle separately. Now think what that means to Multi-Player Games, as well as to the time requirements for Civ, which has been more-or-less intended for 500 turn full games.
3. It requires the 'expert' player to actually learn two games: the set of rules for the main 4x semi-historical, and a set of rules for a tactical 'game' with tactical bonuses and interactions which, in Humankind at least, were different for almost every single unit. This is great detail, but a whole new burden on the gamer's personal 'data base' of information required to play the game well. So far, I don't know of any game in which the 'auto-resolve' function works as well as the individual experienced Human player to resolve battles, so for those determined to play well, this is an inherent problem.

To a large extent, these problems are balanced against the massive time and space problems of 1UPT trying to show tactical interactions on a Grand Strategy (main game) map: in game terms, the separate battles are resolved in a single turn, in a single 'tile' and armies actually act and appear like armies on the main map, instead of a traffic jam of individual units spread from Baltimore to Bakhmut.
But both systems have inherent problems in how they interact with the rest of the game and the gamers' time and attention.
IMHO, any true solution lies somewhere other than either of them, not in trying to play a tactical sub-game or graft a tactical game onto a grand strategy game with an entirely different focus in time and space.
 
I would also add that in Humankind units and cities scale more or less independently, and I am not even sure where and how one would begin to balance that. In the early-game, you could have a few districts when you are attacked, such that your measly five units spill over the walls. This, however, can quickly reverse as your cities rapidly grow, such that you could easily have 10 units defending a city of say 40 districts against a hostile force of 20 units. In the late-game, districts take up the majority of the map, such that sieges involve multiple cities and distinct forces. These scenarios all play differently. The variable relationship between number of units and urbanization of the tactical map strikes me as a tricky compromise.

While I am not sure about the degree of expertise required, the community challenges do reveal variance in how effectively players set up and resolve battles.
 
Aside from the problems mentioned, the 'tactical map' or 'separate battle mechanic' method used by Humankind (and Test of Time, another Civ-variant 4x game) has several inherent problems no matter how well the interface and map generation work:
1. It takes you out of the Main Game and into a sub-section of the game, which is the direct opposite of the trend in Civ to put everything possible on the Main Map, including buildings, districts, and all units.
2. It slows down the main game enormously. In Humankind, in the late game, it is not unusual to have several battles in a single turn, which can make that one turn last several times longer than an ordinary turn as you fight out each battle separately. Now think what that means to Multi-Player Games, as well as to the time requirements for Civ, which has been more-or-less intended for 500 turn full games.
3. It requires the 'expert' player to actually learn two games: the set of rules for the main 4x semi-historical, and a set of rules for a tactical 'game' with tactical bonuses and interactions which, in Humankind at least, were different for almost every single unit. This is great detail, but a whole new burden on the gamer's personal 'data base' of information required to play the game well. So far, I don't know of any game in which the 'auto-resolve' function works as well as the individual experienced Human player to resolve battles, so for those determined to play well, this is an inherent problem.

To a large extent, these problems are balanced against the massive time and space problems of 1UPT trying to show tactical interactions on a Grand Strategy (main game) map: in game terms, the separate battles are resolved in a single turn, in a single 'tile' and armies actually act and appear like armies on the main map, instead of a traffic jam of individual units spread from Baltimore to Bakhmut.
But both systems have inherent problems in how they interact with the rest of the game and the gamers' time and attention.
IMHO, any true solution lies somewhere other than either of them, not in trying to play a tactical sub-game or graft a tactical game onto a grand strategy game with an entirely different focus in time and space.

I would also add that in Humankind units and cities scale more or less independently, and I am not even sure where and how one would begin to balance that. In the early-game, you could have a few districts when you are attacked, such that your measly five units spill over the walls. This, however, can quickly reverse as your cities rapidly grow, such that you could easily have 10 units defending a city of say 40 districts against a hostile force of 20 units. In the late-game, districts take up the majority of the map, such that sieges involve multiple cities and distinct forces. These scenarios all play differently. The variable relationship between number of units and urbanization of the tactical map strikes me as a tricky compromise.

While I am not sure about the degree of expertise required, the community challenges do reveal variance in how effectively players set up and resolve battles.

Both of your comments actually managed to convince me slightly against Humankind's combat system... which had been the only major aspect of this game which I haven't criticized on a fundamental level :D
 
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