[R&F] Old growth woods, Conservation, but no added appeal?

[Trav'ling Canuck]

but that's the thing, the old growth tiles themselves don't go up either, as shown in my above post https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ion-but-no-added-appeal.635706/#post-15202737

not even looking at the adjacency bonus - just the [old growth woods] tile itself

I'm not near a computer. If no one's been able to duplicate your issue or confirm what old growth woods actually do/when, I'll try duplicating when I get home next week.

 

[tai4ji2x]

I'm not near a computer. If no one's been able to duplicate your issue or confirm what old growth woods actually do/when, I'll try duplicating when I get home next week.

lol, am i the only one playing on an older laptop? and btw is that why my load times are nearly 3 minutes long?

 

[craney1987]

My laptop is ancient. I dream of three minute load times...

 

[tai4ji2x]

so anyway, finally spent the time to play until the game-wide declaration of modern era, 20 turns later. no change in appeal, neither adjacent tiles nor the tiles themselves. decided to just chop in an eiffel tower in a new city so that my original cities' neighborhoods could grow the way i originally meticulously pre-planned.

blah. i feel unsatisfied.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

blah. i feel unsatisfied.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but welcome to Civ 6. So many cool ideas, so much potential … such an unsatisfying game experience for many people.

At least there's always the next patch to look forward. To the best of our knowledge, development on the game hasn't stopped yet, so improvements may yet be on the way.

 

[tai4ji2x]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but welcome to Civ 6. So many cool ideas, so much potential … such an unsatisfying game experience for many people.

At least there's always the next patch to look forward. To the best of our knowledge, development on the game hasn't stopped yet, so improvements may yet be on the way.

yeah, this laptop i'm playing on was passed along to me by a buddy who was also disenchanted with the game, but he never really played much strategy so i figured i'd give it a go. i'm surprised this never got noticed by anyone so far. hopefully others will help confirm and post to the developers...

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

i'm surprised this never got noticed by anyone so far. hopefully others will help confirm and post to the developers...

I've tested and got the same results as you. Conservation changes the description of the terrain feature from "woods", adding "old growth", but the appeal of the tile with the old growth woods and the appeal of the tiles surrounding the old growth woods are unchanged, neither on the tool tip nor with respect to the impact on Neighborhoods when placing them and therefore, presumably, not with respect to any game effect based on appeal.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

As I mentioned earlier:

...other than text entries I couldn't find any reference to a modifier changing the appeal of old-growth woods, unless I missed it. Perhaps it's dll hard-coded, but that seems kind of odd to me.

So it indeed could be a feature that FXS meant to implement and never did, had implemented at one time and then took out, or it could just be plain broken. But in any case, the misleading text is still active.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to move this to the Bug Reports forum and also for someone who has a save game to post this over in the 2K forums under Bug Reports and submit a support ticket over at 2K as well. @FXS_Sarah

 

[Disgustipated]

If true, then all woods add 1 to adjacent tiles, while old growth forests also add 1 to their own tile.

I'm still not exactly sure what old growth actually does for you. Who cares if it adds appeal to its own tile? What does that actually do for you? You can't place a neighborhood or seaside resort on the tile, or you'll lose it. It could be useful for National Parks, however. And I think that's what they intended old growth forests to be used for.

Myself, when going culture victory, I'm often removing mines at this point (after conservation) and replacing with forests and lumbermills because new growth forests do seem to give appeal to adjacent tiles, or at least it's better than mines which reduce it. Though I was having trouble in my Poland game getting appeal up to get National Parks built. My final save game is in the Poland Civ of the Week thread. I find it easier just to build Eiffel Tower, this solves nearly all your problems. That game ended long before I got Steel, however.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'm still not exactly sure what old growth actually does for you. Who cares if it adds appeal to its own tile? What does that actually do for you? You can't place a neighborhood or seaside resort on the tile, or you'll lose it. It could be useful for National Parks, however. And I think that's what they intended old growth forests to be used for.

Likely true, and it makes sense that the only reason for the extra appeal for old growth woods is to make it easier to create Naitonal Parks. Right now, though, it seems like even that isn't happening, as the tile is not getting a bonus to appeal as far as I can tell.

From a game balance perspective, though, to encourage leaving woods intact instead of chopping it, I wouldn't mind seeing the appeal bonus extend not only to the tile itself but also to adjacent tiles.

 

[Victoria]

I never have seen +2 for old woods, its always been broken AFAIK, you will be lucky to get it fixed, they care much more about putting new toys in to sell more than to fix the core game, and the sad thing is people on this site voted that that was their preference as well (new toys)

 

[tai4ji2x]

you will be lucky to get it fixed, they care much more about putting new toys in to sell more than to fix the core game, and the sad thing is people on this site voted that that was their preference as well (new toys)

thanks for your optimism

 

[tai4ji2x]

I never have seen +2 for old woods, its always been broken AFAIK, you will be lucky to get it fixed, they care much more about putting new toys in to sell more than to fix the core game, and the sad thing is people on this site voted that that was their preference as well (new toys)

anyway, on a more serious note, has there ever even been discussion on this bug/oversight before? i tried googling, and also searching both here and on the steam forums, but no indication that anyone noticed this before, though maybe my search parameters weren't calibrated well enough? i haven't been involved in the online civ "community" for many years, so thought it best to ask anyone who has been during my absence...

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

anyway, on a more serious note, has there ever even been discussion on this bug/oversight before? i tried googling, and also searching both here and on the steam forums, but no indication that anyone noticed this before, though maybe my search parameters weren't calibrated well enough? i haven't been involved in the online civ "community" for many years, so thought it best to ask anyone who has been during my absence...

I'm not aware of anyone noticing and reporting this before you. Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention!

Most speed players aren't likely to keep any woods around to reach "old growth" status (and if they have, it's to chop in space race parts). Less mix-max minded people would also be less inclined to investigate changes in appeal, I suppose.

 

[acluewithout]

I'm not aware of anyone noticing and reporting this before you. Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention!

Most speed players aren't likely to keep any woods around to reach "old growth" status (and if they have, it's to chop in space race parts). Less mix-max minded people would also be less inclined to investigate changes in appeal, I suppose.

I agree. This was news to me. As was a post recently that Melee's Battle Cry Promotion works against Anti-Cav. I must say, I have found both of these bugs quite upsetting. The other one that has bothered me for ages is English Naval Units losing their +1 Movement from RND after you Upgrade them (because, you know, England doesn't have enough problems).

Civ VI is a game about numbers. These bugs aren't just sort of QOL glitches - they totally undercut the value of certain Civs and certain strategies. It's very frustrating.

I don't think I can quite share @Victoria 's pessimism. But there is something a bit wrong about how these various bugs don't get fixed, along with a bunch of just rubbish balance issues. I'm really hoping that the current issues are just a product of FXS being focused on the end game (i.e. final expansion) and once that's out these various issues will get addressed.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

As was a post recently that Melee's Battle Cry Promotion works against Anti-Cav. I must say, I have found both of these bugs quite upsetting.

As I mentioned in that thread this isn't a bug (there is a modifier written specifically to include the AC promotion class), just ambiguous terminology in relation to the "melee & vs." descriptors.

 

[acluewithout]

As I mentioned in that thread this isn't a bug (there is a modifier written specifically to include the AC promotion class), just ambiguous terminology in relation to the "melee & vs." descriptors.

You're right. I misspoke. But it is still very annoying. I've had plenty of games where I deliberately left old growth forests to boost appeal of surrounding tiles for, say, sea side resorts. I'm very annoyed that this was basically a waste of time, and I had no idea.

 

[Victoria]

Looks like its not the only thing buggy with appeal
Here I have eiffel Tower, every other tile acts normally but this one just must have gone glitchy

 

[Wolfzoon]

I just checked this in my own game (mounties making National Parks wow) and found that it works just as currently described in the fandom wiki, which is that the tile itself gets +1 appeal after conservation. This was added to the wiki in October 2018.

I know for a fact that it used to make woods give +2 appeal to surrounding tiles instead of +1, I wrote a whole "Culture Victory" guide in the Steam Community guides.
So somewhere in between launch and now, a patch, or expansion, or a perhaps only in a ruleset if you have a specific expansion enabled, they changed it. Bah.

Check a lone forest on a bunch of tundra, the surrounding tiles have 1 appeal but the woods itself has 0. Until Conservation, when the woods also get 1 appeal.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I just checked this in my own game (mounties making National Parks wow) and found that it works just as currently described in the fandom wiki, which is that the tile itself gets +1 appeal after conservation.

Correct, this mechanic was either broken or missing up until version 1.0.0.290 released in Feb, but now seems to be functioning correctly per the Conservation Civic description.

I know for a fact that it used to make woods give +2 appeal to surrounding tiles instead of +1

Must have been pre-R&F, as looking @ my backup R&F files FEATURE_FOREST only ever gave +1 to surrounding tiles and the old-growth mechanic for the tile itself never worked at all.