[BTS] Old player leveling up (starting with Monarch)

[Pangaea]

Sounds like you already have the army ready for Shaka. That beast costs maintenance, so you may as well declare on him soon I reckon. Although he spams units, that army of ~30 units should be sufficient. Just make some more catas along the way, as you will lose them (that's the point, lose cheap catas instead of experienced attackers, then clean up).

Ulundi looks like a killer spot for the National Epic. Though I suppose at this level you can just clean up the map with what you have.

The extra GG can be used for another medic -- though that probably isn't needed here. It's more useful when you are waging war on several fronts, with several stacks. You can settle him in a high-production city, which means you get 5XP units out the gate with just a barracks. That means City Raider 2 catas, or Bombard catas, or Strength 2 war elephants. Can also be nice to make a 'extra vision' immortal for instance. Flanking+ "that name I've forgotten".

 

[sampsa]

You can settle him in a high-production city, which means you get 5XP units out the gate with just a barracks. That means City Raider 2 catas, or Bombard catas, or Strength 2 war elephants.

Directly attaching to several units might be better, assuming that you already almost have a game winning army. Choose say 5-10 units, attach and promote. Especially 4xp (or 8xp?) cats for accuracy or cr2(/cr3) can be very useful.

Can also be nice to make a 'extra vision' immortal for instance. Flanking+ "that name I've forgotten".

Sentry.

 

[Anysense]

Fifteen units is enough to take several cities without reinforcements, the other 15 will do nothing if you drag them along. So splitting 30 units into two stacks makes perfect sense. I'd bribe Ragnar, it's always good to have allies, they distract your enemy and can do some real damage sometimes. Besides, attacks from multiple directions confuse AI.

 

[isomittari]

I am trying to come up with a message template in order to keep things organized. Before the turnset I will write a plan which I try to follow. The I will report the turnset and finally plan the future
and raise any questions I have after finishing the turnset.

Plan for this turnset: I plan to declare on Shaka and try to conquer Ulundi ASAP while keeping my economy afloat.

Spoiler 120-131 :

T120: I stop making any more troops other than Catapults. I also cancel OB with Shaka. I make a second Medic from Axeman in case I decide to split my stacks attacking Shaka.
T121: I send two Workers to my main stack to help with roads after I have declared.
T122: I get Buddhism - maybe I should convert to keep Ragnar happy for a while? I am pretty sure he is planning a war against Liz. I declare on Shaka and move next to Ondini with my stack.
T123: I trade Crab to Corn with Ragnar. Ondini falls to my mighty Elepult stack, I move towards Nobamba. I 2-whip a few Catapults to replace those that I lost. Washington whips a Library and I start preparing it as a GP farm. Pasargadae 2-whips a LH, was this a good idea or not? Susa 2-whips a Catapult.
T124: I start building the 'Mids in Persepolis for possible failgold. Sardis 2-whips a Library, OF goes to Immortal.
T128: Nobamba falls, and I head for Ulundi.
T129: Tarsus whips a Library. I capture Phrygian, a barb city Shaka conquered few turns before. This city has Cows and Silk in the 1st ring and helps a little bit with happiness. I bribe Ragnar to declare on Shaka.
T131: Olmec whips a Library and Ectabana whips a LH. Ulundi is captured and I get SH. It is a nice spot in general.

Spoiler Maps :

Is anyone checking these? I assume most people just open the save and check cities, units, etc. in the game.

Analysis
My attack plan is progressing well, maybe a little bit too well since I haven't lost many troops and they drain my economy quickly... Not all Civs are on this continent so I should start planning my victory - for domination I probably just need to settle the whole continent, but if I want to conquest, I need to research (double-bulb?) Astro. Bribing Ragnar for the war was a great tip, thanks again @Anysense !

Some issues to solve:

• Which would make better NE city - Washington or Ulundi?
• Which cities should I keep and which should I raze?
• How to fix my economy?
• What should I build with my cities? Do I need Courthouses or Markets?
• What do I do after destroying Shaka? Go for Liz with Ragnar?
• Should I wait for the whipping rage to go away?

 

[Anysense]

1. Ulundi is still in revolt and doesn't even have library, obviously Washington is better choice. BTW, Washington can share some food with New York.
2. Raze useless crap like Boston an keep good cities with food, like the one you razed in the west. As a byproduct of that poor decision (and lack of spawnbust) you also have a rogue barbarian galley and now you have to get rid of it.
3. Whipping is more efficient in smaller cities, because it takes less to regrow, but you it's not very important now. Let your cities grow a bit more and work more tiles, but only good ones. For instance, Bactra does not need another farm, growing on farms only increaces maintenance and does not bring any benefit.
Three of your cities are unhappy because there is no military police in there. And you haven't spread any religion. Sardis could do both tasks at once: 2-pop whip a missionary and build an archer with overflow. And clearly you don't need to endure a turn of anarchy just to make Ragnar happy. Now that you are ready to conquer the continent its time for, as WastinTime put it, middle-finger diplomacy.
Use all means to get gold: sell techs and resources for gold, build wealth, conquest, pillage, failgold. Boston can actually be useful, if you chop those 4 forests into Mids, it will be 4*30*2,25=270 failgold. But the gottages on plains around New York are worthless, you should have pillaged those.
4. Some cities (with high maintenance) could do with a courthouse but don't build markets, they are too expensive, much less use and work only when you set slider to make gold. You definitely don't need libraries in cities like Olmec, Ondini and Nobamba, that is an awful waste of hammers. They don't need anything except granary and monument (note that there is Stonehenge in Ulundi), just make them build wealth and whip units.
5. Liz will probably have longbows soon, and taking her out ASAP, before she's become ever more advanced, is a safer way. She's not much of a unit spammer, so you will likely face just a couple of longbows/city. Still you should do some scouting.
6. No. You'll have incense improved on the next turn and a newly captured barbarian city has silks, so whipping anger is not a very big problem. But don't whip your cities to the ground, let them work any good tiles they have.

Pictures are useful, not everyone opens the saves.
Something I haven't noticed before

Spoiler :

There is some land to the southwest.

 

[isomittari]

Plan for this turnset:
* Build defenders for unhappy cities
* Try to fix my economy so that I don't lose money at 0% slider
* Continue to invade Shaka's cities
* Spread Religion and convert to Confucianism for more happy faces
* Try to get some failgold from wonders
* Whip a few Courthouses in high maintenance cities
* Keep an eye on Liz in case of LB's, plan eventual war, scout her

Spoiler 128-140 :

T128-T131: I replayed few turns, only to see how much better I could have done if I would have paid attention - I managed to spread religion and happiness much quicker this time, making my empire much more efficient.
I also got rid of that barb Galley.
T132: I capture Ulundi one turn later than initially, but I think I have better position with my troops.
T134: My WM2 Scout beats an Impi! I liberate uMgungundlovu (that's a mouthful). My happiness problem is momentarily solved with well-placed guards and with new shiny Calendar resources. I am still running deficit, though.
T137: I trade Sheep for 4GP with Ragnar. I also trade CoL to 90GP. I raze kwaDukuza. I noticed that I have a lot of trouble organizing my Workers and I am working a lot of unimproved tiles in my cities - I will try to fix this ASAP.
T138: Ragnar conquers Nongoma.
T139: I realized I forgot to raze Shaka's lands... damn it.
T140: Nodwengu has been destroyed. Also, Ndondakusuka, and along with that, the whole Zulu empire. I head to Liz's land, first to see how she is doing defense-wise, and then finally to attack her ruthlessly. I plan to invite Ragnar for the party, too.

Spoiler Maps :

Analysis
I wanted to play part (4 turns, actually) of the previous turnset just to see how much of a difference these mall adjustments can make. And they do make a BIG difference. I am now running a happy empire that's ready to be whipped again if necessary. Liz is probably pretty close to LB's, but I think my experienced army can still take her cities (only 6 of them). I still need to spread religion to most of my cities.

Some issues to solve:
1. Army - I have 16 WE's, 18 Catapults, Immortal Medic, Axe Medic, and extra Axe for obliterating Liz. I think this is enough.
2. Currently the economy is alright, and will get better in the following turns as I can start working those good tiles - are there any adjustments I should be making?
3. I still haven't gotten any GP's - maybe try to get GS in Washington for bulbing (Astro maybe?)
4. How big of a threat is Ragnar? He has 9 cities and he tends to build units.
5. What sort of victory makes sense here? Domination, probably.
6. I haven't really thought about research at all - what should I aim for once (if...) my economy recovers?

 

[Anysense]

1. That's enough, even if she got longbows.
2. Nope, economy is a total mess, but don't panic, it can be fixed. Building MoM in Boston makes no sense, you don't have marble. But you could put some chops into Mids while your capital is building missionary. That's also very inefficient. Instead you could whip them in small cities with your state religion (for OrgRel bonus) shoving the overflow into Mids (with 2.25 multiplier) and building wealth.
A lot of thing can be adjusted/done differently. Phrygian can work silk instead of unimproved FP, that's 25 against 31; +5 surplus is fine, what is the point of sacrificing 4 in favor of 1 when you are in such financial trouble? Sardis should not have been whipped that hard, working the iron and 2 cottages it would be making 8/turn more. Whipping in Bactra is a bad mistake, it could work gold for +7 and build wealth +10, thats 17/turn difference in just one city! Meanwhile Susa, Ecbatana and Olmec are working grassland farms, those are only useful to grow faster and whip, so you should have whipped away those farms in food-rich cities, rather than gold in a food-poor city. Well, you see what holds you back?
Another thing that would make huge difference is Golden Age...
3. No idea how you managed not to get a single GP with that many cities by 600 AD, if you made one of them 50 turns ago run 2 scientists continiously, that would not undermine your military power or something else, but you would have two Great Scientists, one to bulb Philosophy another to start GA and switch to pacifism and probably caste till the end of GA to make use of the bonus to GP, then back to slavery. Washington is a mess, it should be size 8-9 with 5 specialists. Build boats somewhere else, it isn't really urgent, Washington already has more than enough food.
4. He is a monarch AI, that is a pushover.
5. Domination is the fastest, of course. Don't know why you razed that many cities, while aiming at domination. The marble one was crappy but the rest of them had some good tiles and could pay for themselves.
6. If you can reach the domination by claiming that continent, then you don't have to research anything. If you can't, then you'll need astronomy. Hint: Elizabeth has Metal Casting. Don't kill her, take her techs in a peace deal. Still its worth checking whether there is someone on the island in the west which you can reach in a galley. Although for that you'll need a city with at least 1 border pop (why did you have to raze that city).
I hope it did not sound too harsh. Its not too bad, really. At least you can practice getting out of a tight spot in a game where you are bound to win no matter what.
Edit: I wonder if you already read Seraiel's guides on city specialization and economy. Although the pictures are gone, the guides are still helpful.

 

[isomittari]

I hope it did not sound too harsh. Its not too bad, really. At least you can practice getting out of a tight spot in a game where you are bound to win no matter what.

Haha, no worries, this feedback is golden as it helps me improve for the higher difficulty levels. The goal is to learn from your mistakes and it helps when someone points them out when you are clueless.

Edit: I wonder if you already read Seraiel's guides on city specialization and economy. Although the pictures are gone, the guides are still helpful.

I have, but I should probably give it another read. I feel like I am slowly starting to realize what is a good city and what is bad. Before I would just try to improve and work every tile in a city, not really worrying about what it is going to produce and what is it's purpose.

Plan for this turnset:
* Fix my cities so that I work the good tiles instead of the bad ones
* Prepare for future with some failgold
* Try to get a GP for Philo bulb and for GA...
* Build another city close to Washington to check if that island has another Civ
* Attack Liz, keep cities with food, while preparing for that domination victory

Spoiler 140-153 :

T140: I try to fix Washington by growing it and building those WB's elsewhere. I start a few Settlers to settle Shaka's old land (those spots with good food resources) to help with domination victory.
T141: I send a few WEs towards that nice barb city on the coast. I am sending the rest of my troops towards Liz's border.
T142: I start dividing my armies to two stacks, the plan is to attack both Nottingham and London at the same time. I 2-whip Settlers in Pasargadae, Ectabana and Susa. I whip missionaries in smaller cities.
T145: I declare on Liz, and my two stacks proceed towards her cities.
T146: Dariush Kabir has been found in the eastern border, near Ragnar. I wanted to settle this spot before he does.
T147: Ragnar declares on Liz. I capture Nottingham with small losses.
T148: Zohak has been found. Nobamba, Ulundi and Phrygian 2-whip a Library. London falls.
T149: Ragnar's small army is heading for York. Istakhr has been found.
T150: I trade 140GP to Currency with Ragnar.
T151: Ragnar invades York. I capture Magyar, a nice barb city in the west.
T152: I capture Hastings, and the English are down to one city. I negotiate for peace and get MC and Theology in the deal.
T153: I am losing a lot of dough every turn, I will have to fix my economy again. My troops are already moving towards Ragnar's borders. I meet Wang Kon - he is quite backwards in techs, probably resides alone on that island.

Spoiler Maps :

Analysis
I think this was an "alright" turnset, even though I would have wanted to conquer York before Ragnar. Nobody seems to be interested in finishing the 'Mids. I put some hammers into Angkor Wat, too.

Some issues to solve:
1. Should I just finish the 'Mids?
2. Is there much I can/should do about my economy at this point, aiming for that Domination victory? I get some gold from Ragnar's cities.
3. Is there any sense in researching Feudalism and vassaling Ragnar?

 

[Anysense]

1. Probably, yes. Not much use for you, but as nobody wants to build Mids you'll have to finish it. Angkor Wat... It seems that only you have Philosophy. Guess what it means

Spoiler :

Yep, nobody is going to finish it so you could get failgold.

2. Get traderoutes with Wang Kon, he has 5 cities, so that will be ~20 traderoutes +2 or +3 each instead of just +1. Build MoM, Olmec can do it in ~5 turns with 6 chops. That will make the GA you start with your next GP 12 turns long. Regarding micromanagement... 27 cities empire isn't exactly the best thing for learning micro. It's just so time consuming.
Focus on getting as many GP's for Golden Ages (yes, GA in plural) as possible and try do make a sequence of at least 3 GA's, thats 36 turns in a row. Not that you need it in this game (it probably won't even last that long), just to practice and learn the power of Golden Age.
You'll need: caste, pacifism, several cities running ~5 specialists. With caste you can hire as many merchants, artists and scientists as you want, limited ponly by the size of the city in question. That enables you too make sure that city A will produce a GS, city B - GM etc. That is very imortant because you need 2, then 3, then 4, then 5 different GP's to start GA.
You'll need to switch to slavery at some point to whip stuff. You could whip units to invade WK's continent before you started GA and switched to caste.
3. I'd do it just so I don't have to manage even more cities. Twenty-seven is already a lot, by the end of the game it will be ~40.

 

[isomittari]

Plan for this turnset:
* Expand on the new continent
* Get some trade routes with WK
* Prepare for war with Ragnar.

Spoiler 153-179 :

T153: I sign OB with WK. I trade Alpha for 40GP with him.
T154: I get 160GP from MC from Ragnar. I get 2GP from Crab with Ragnar. I build the 'Mids in Persepolis. Rep is very tempting but I will wait until the first (and hopefully last) GA.
T155: I trade Gems to Crab with WK. Also, Spices to Corn. I have started whipping an army against WK.
T156: I am tracking Ragnar's attack stack that is on its way to Liz's last city. I will flank him after I DoW. WK gives me 3GP for Sheep.
T158: Washington gets a GM - I save it for a GA.
T159: I find Gold near Persepolis, yay! I DoW on Ragnar, and take York easily.
T160: The English civilization has been destroyed. It seems that I might lose one unprotected city to Ragnar but I'll get it back soon.
T161: Nongoma falls easily, and I plan to move further to Ragnar's lands. I start a GA with the GM I got. I'm actually making money!
T163: I liberate Tansberg.
T164: I take the barbarian city of Thracian on WK's continent.
T165: I got Feudalism, but Ragnar is not willing to capitulate yet. I continue my conquests. I liberate Coventry, which is just plain horrible. But I am going for that domination, all I need is land. Persepolis gets a GS.
T166: I get an GA, which I use for another GA.
T172: I declare on WK. The war against Ragnar has been a failure for a few turns, I think I got too greedy and forgot that he is a unit spammer.
T173: I finally capture Birka.
T175: Yet another one of KW's cities falls and I capitulate him.
T176: Ragnar finally capitulates, and I think I can finish off this map in a few turns. I research Drama for the final touch.
T179: I win domination victory, my earliest on this difficulty level.

Analysis
Okay, so I finished the game even when I was supposed to do further analysis on my turnsets... it was just too much fun to finish off Ragnar. This could have been done MUCH faster if I just wouldn't have
razed Philadelphia in the early game. But anyway, I learned a bunch during this game, special thanks to @Anysense for being patient and helpful! I want to start a new game ASAP, this time on Emperor difficulty. The save attached here is just a few turns before my victory. Workers are set to automatic few turns before and I really did not pay any attention to cities anymore... Sloppy work.

What I learned in this game:
1. City specialization basics
2. Worker planning (still needs work, though)
3. Working the GOOD tiles
4. City placement
5. Economy management
6. War and strategy

 

[Rusten]

Nicely done, gl with the next one

 

[isomittari]

Settings: Fractal, difficulty is Emperor, no events, no huts
Leader: Asoka, SPI and ORG
Starting techs: Myst and Mining

I think that the Indian UU unit is one of the best in the game, saving many turns for example with chops. I have never actually played Asoka before.

Here is the start:

Spoiler :

Maybe move Warrior SE to check what is in the south? SIP would give Corn + Cows + Gold and 5 riverside tiles. Would moving Settler towards east increase the chance of river tiles? There's a lot to chop, at least.

 

[Rusten]

Maybe move Warrior SE to check what is in the south?

What are you realistically hoping to find that's better than gold?

I'd check the tile 2W of lake for forested deer or furs (trees show this is a northern start) and if there's nothing I'd settle 1E on the river.
If you prefer SIP to 1E right now (it's a close call) then it doesn't really matter what the warrior does.

 

[isomittari]

What are you realistically hoping to find that's better than gold?

Maybe some more food, but Gold is probably more valuable...

Plan for this turnset:
* I will do a very short turnset after which I think about the research path

Spoiler 0-2 :

T0: I moved my Warrior NW which revealed nothing of interest. I move Settler 1E in hopes of some extra river tiles.
T1: I settle Delhi. I got Corn, Cows and Gold, I think it's a nice start. Maybe one of those hills to the east reveal some strategic resource later on. Or maybe even Horses SE of Delhi... I start building a Worker. Research is set for Agriculture.
T2: Warrior explores the area NW of Delhi.

Spoiler Map :

Analysis
Not much to analyse, the start is in the north so we probably have to expand to south and east.

Some issues to solve:
1. I need techs that allow me to improve tiles around Delhi, so I start with Agri. After this could be either AH or BW - AH lets me work the Cows and reveals possible Horses, and BW lets me chop earlier and also allows Slavery. It might also reveal Copper, maybe in the hills. In what tiles can Copper even appear?
2. What is the most effective way of exploring the surroundings with my Warrior? I usually go clockwise around my capital. I guess the goal is to find city spots with sufficient food.

 

[Anysense]

Well done. I see you did as I asked and learned what a powerful tool GA is for a large empire, a leap from minus to +200 must have done the right impression. Sloppy/no micro at the end of the game, when it does not affect the result is ok, so long as you don't aim at maximizing the score.
1. Naturally, you need to improve food first: Agri=>AH. Whether you need BW is too early to decide. I think worker will be able to put 1 or 2 turns into gold mine before AH is finished, still food first, i.e. imrove cows and only then finish the mine.
2. Your top priority is to find site for your second city, typically with good food in the inner ring and close to the capital. As a rule of thumb: don't leave black patches within ~5 tiles off the cultural border. I don't know how much of a trouble barbs can be on Emperor, but its just a good habit to station you warrior in the area, once you've found the place for the second city. Another rule of thumb: move through forests or at least hills, its safer.

 

[isomittari]

Plan for this turnset:

* Get Worker out and start working Corn -> Gold for a while -> Cows -> finish Gold
* Explore the surroundings of Delhi.

Spoiler 2-24 :

T6: I meet Kublai Khan.
T11: Agri is done, I start on AH.
T14: Hinduism found.
T15: I meet Hatsheput.
T16: Worker is finished, I start building a Warrior. Worker starts irrigating the Corn.
T18: I see Mongolian culture directly to the south from me.
T20: Corn improved. AH in 4, I think I can work that mine for only one turn before AH.
T22: Buddhism found by Hatsheput.
T24: I stop here, as I need to plan my future cities.

Spoiler Map :

Analysis
I have met at least two neighbors, which means that this is not an isolated start. KK is directly to the south from me and quite close, so I think he has to be dealt with at some point in the near future. He even has Horses nearby for Keshiks. Unfortunately there were no Horses in Delhi's BFC. Hopefully Hatty will spread his religion to me at some point.

Some issues to solve:
1. I guess it makes sense to start building a Settler at pop 3 in Delhi. I have set up some potential city locations on the map in the order I would like to settle them. My reasoning for each city is as follows:

c1: Pigs are amazing, and so is gold. I could even get some riverside tiles with this city. This could be a nice city for producing units. KK might be looking at this spot, too...
c2: Another food rich spot with lots of rivers. Cottages and commerce, I think.
c3: This city could work both Corns, Cows and the Pigs for some serious whipping action. It also has a nice amount of forests for whipping.
c4: This city would grow way too slowly because the Crabs are in the 2nd circle, thus requiring a Monument. Also, Crab is not a very good tile in general. But those Horses and Marble would be nice...

2. I need some kind of plan to deal with KK. He is not a unit spammer so that should help me a little bit, but Keshiks together with Ger's are a big threat. He is also Creative which means he will expand his cultural borders fast. And he can plot at Pleased.

 

[Anysense]

1. It does, although I'd like to have more than two warriors before starting on a settler and grow before gold is improved. Its a bit of a problem that gold can't be shared. You dots seem alright, but the decision will be made when you have a settler. It also depends on where KK settles his first cities.
2. Yeah, Kublai is not an ideal neighbour. A lot depends on whether you have copper. If you don't then settle horses early or risk being unprotected for a while, after all, he is not a maniac like Shaka or Monty.
If you do have copper in not too awkward location, then early stage of the game is secured and you might even steal a worker, those horses will be within his borders on the next turn, that's a good place for ambush. I don't know if stealing a worker is really good here, he won't open borders if you steal a worker and early +2 traderoutes are very useful. Anyway, research BW next, with that amount of food and forests it will be handy even without copper.

Edit: usually one put all espionage points on the best techer to see their research, here its Hatty. Besides, in any military scenario KK will be first to go (to the other world), and all EP you put on him will vanish.

 

[Jarno]

Its a bit of a problem that gold can't be shared

c4 could be settled 1S on the marble. Lets you work the gold while building a monument/workboat, can grow on crabs and then work the gold again. Would also be able to work some shared cottages, and it saves you the forest on the current c4 mark which can be chopped in the monument or workboat.

Edit: also check seafood around c3

 

[Gasp]

I agree with Jarno for c4. Anysense is right you may decide where to settle once you have a settler. But I lean toward that other gold city as you do. Also c3 may be better to settle before c2 (which could be placed 1S of that for more forest) just to secure some land.

Just one thing about tech path: Agri of course but then I believe without any other info on the surrounding land AH was not the best choice. it's an expensive tech for just plain cows whereas BW speeds up the game with chops and discovery of copper. Earlier info on the presence of copper can be crucial here. It looks like it's not going to be a big problem though

 

[Anysense]

Yeah, c4 should be on the marble, unless horses are really urgent. Otherwise no point in killing forest and missing the ability to share gold. Other dots can be adjusted for various reasons.
I don't see how we can skip AH here. Cows are a strong 6 yield tile, +2 compared to a mine, that is effectively a free chop every 10 turns. Then there are pigs and sheep. I don't know where that prejudice comes from. May be because cows being just 3 are not good as a primary source of food, but in combination with corn they are fine.