On Duterte

[Berzerker]

Maybe he was in pain?

My wife went into Jagna and past her huge Catholic church built a few hundred years ago. Its a day with no normal church services, yet the place is overflowing. She stopped to find out what was up, and it was all folks who used drugs turning themselves in. This is a fairly small town. In all the Philippines hundreds of thousands have done so. The country is kicking the habit in typical Filipino style, together. The nation loves him, for the most part. Pushers not so much.

Isn't pain part of the human condition? So he gets to use drugs to ease his pain but not other people? Opiates kill far more people than meth, but he has a bug up his behind over speed? What a fraud.

Hey, they got a new drug for people with double chins! It might make you look like you had a stroke, but we cant have double chins now, can we? The war on drugs is a sad joke, the USA is the biggest drug dealer on the planet and this hypocrite was one of its customers.

 

[CavLancer]

Whatever works for you Berzerker. If you stand in defense of meth there's no reply I can make that will make any difference.

 

[Agent327]

You seem to be standing in defense of executing suspected criminals without trial. (And I don't think anybody is standing in defense of meth.) You may not remember this, but erstwhile president Marcos had his own death squads.

 

[Bootstoots]

It's probably worth noting that meth can (rarely is, but can) actually still be prescribed in the USA for ADHD, under the brand name Desoxyn, in doses of 5 or 10 mg. According to the relatively few people who are using it for that, it's actually the cleanest such drug on the market. Chemically, it differs from regular amphetamine (Adderall) only by a methyl group, which allows it to penetrate the blood-brain barrier more easily and increases its potency by a factor of ~3, but it's otherwise not really a different drug.

The main difference between how Adderall is used and how meth is used is the method of administration: meth users use hundreds of mg, cut with God knows what, by snorting, smoking, or injecting. Anyone who used regular amphetamine in the same way would end up with the same problems. But we feed children amphetamine, because it makes them pay attention and excel at inherently boring schoolwork, while meth is something that is cooked up in a trailer somewhere. And yes, prescription opioids are fundamentally no different from heroin, and fentanyl in particular is far more potent. A doctor-enabled opioid epidemic is devastating large parts of the US even worse than meth did before it, and now that they've finally started cracking down on it, people are just switching to heroin because it's now much cheaper, thanks to our Afghan adventures.

Our whole attitude towards drugs as a species makes no sense whatsoever, and it's only going to get worse as new drugs appear on the market, often pushed by the medical system. Summarily killing large numbers of drug dealers and users may actually reduce meth use and associated crime in the short run, but it's far from clear that you'll end up any better for it in the long run, even if you're willing to look the other way on the brutality of it.

 

[CavLancer]

You seem to be standing in defense of executing suspected criminals without trial. (And I don't think anybody is standing in defense of meth.) You may not remember this, but erstwhile president Marcos had his own death squads.

If those criminals are pushing drugs to kids etc, sure, got no problem with that. Killing such people for pushing drugs should not be equated for killing them for political reasons.

 

[CavLancer]

It's probably worth noting that meth can (rarely is, but can) actually still be prescribed in the USA for ADHD, under the brand name Desoxyn, in doses of 5 or 10 mg. According to the relatively few people who are using it for that, it's actually the cleanest such drug on the market. Chemically, it differs from regular amphetamine (Adderall) only by a methyl group, which allows it to penetrate the blood-brain barrier more easily and increases its potency by a factor of ~3, but it's otherwise not really a different drug.

The main difference between how Adderall is used and how meth is used is the method of administration: meth users use hundreds of mg, cut with God knows what, by snorting, smoking, or injecting. Anyone who used regular amphetamine in the same way would end up with the same problems. But we feed children amphetamine, because it makes them pay attention and excel at inherently boring schoolwork, while meth is something that is cooked up in a trailer somewhere. And yes, prescription opioids are fundamentally no different from heroin, and fentanyl in particular is far more potent. A doctor-enabled opioid epidemic is devastating large parts of the US even worse than meth did before it, and now that they've finally started cracking down on it, people are just switching to heroin because it's now much cheaper, thanks to our Afghan adventures.

Our whole attitude towards drugs as a species makes no sense whatsoever, and it's only going to get worse as new drugs appear on the market, often pushed by the medical system. Summarily killing large numbers of drug dealers and users may actually reduce meth use and associated crime in the short run, but it's far from clear that you'll end up any better for it in the long run, even if you're willing to look the other way on the brutality of it.

Yup, there's no way I'd put my kids into a US school, sit there with a bunch of drugged up zombies and in danger of pushers giving heroin in order to gain regular customers. Nope, if we end up there it will likely be RVing full time with our residence in Florida. In Florida you can put your kids into online grade school and get an accredited diploma while driving on your way to Disney World to show your daughter a real life Princess. Before Abby gets to t h a t age, bring em back here, for safety's sake.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The nation loves him, for the most part. Pushers not so much.

5 years ago Thailand tried to exact same thing, 23,000 People were killed, hunderds of thousand arrested, even more turning themselves in
For a short while it worked, but because Thailand never addressed the underlining problems, the drug trade came back even worse then before now. Its estimated some 50% killed were innocent.

You can easily see what kind of person Duerte is and how this is going to end
He is suitable as a police chief, not as President

 

[Agent327]

He is neither.

If those criminals are pushing drugs to kids etc, sure, got no problem with that. Killing such people for pushing drugs should not be equated for killing them for political reasons.

Really? You think Dutetre executes people because he loves people? Or, possibly, because he can't be bothered to actually combat corruption? I don't see quite how you can ascribe non-political reasons for executing people to a politician in the first place. But regardless of his reasons or motives, he's undermining the values he pretends to defend. He's not 'cleaning up', he's replacing justice by murder. So he might as well be using death squads. The thing about death squads is that once you start with them, they are very hard to get rid of. See Marcos's regime.

In short, he's not Mr Clean: he's a thug.

 

[CavLancer]

Dunno if its the same Friendly, seems to be working just fine. Remember that Shabu is 9X as expensive new as when he took office. The has 80% or thereabouts positive ratings on the job he's doing. Has to be doing something right. Just because the sickness might come back is no reason not to take the medicine.

 

[CavLancer]

He is neither.



Really? You think Dutetre executes people because he loves people? Or, possibly, because he can't be bothered to actually combat corruption? I don't see quite how you can ascribe non-political reasons for executing people to a politician in the first place. But regardless of his reasons or motives, he's undermining the values he pretends to defend. He's not 'cleaning up', he's replacing justice by murder. So he might as well be using death squads. The thing about death squads is that once you start with them, they are very hard to get rid of. See Marcos's regime.

In short, he's not Mr Clean: he's a thug.

I haven't met him, have you? Sure nobody is perfect, but he seems to be getting the job done. The rich and powerful who are corrupted by drugs as well as the small time pushers are falling. He is taking illegal drugs out of this society, its working. Few people want to get rid of him.

 

[Hygro]

Your kids are no safer. You support murder just to enjoy the feeling of imagined safer. Bad math.

 

[CavLancer]

Its the popular thing around here Hygro, I'm surprised people aren't in full agreement with me. You know how I never post anything controversial. I'm so PC that I've never disagreed with anyone here about anything. You know thaaat.

 

[Perfection]

When you fight thugs it's important you don't become one. That's why Batman doesn't kill people.

 

[CavLancer]

That a fact? Learn something new every day. I think Perfection that maybe the Philippine people decided to fight fire with fire because while he is no drug dealing scum, he is a tough guy. Kind of like Brando in The Godfather. Didn't mind breaking the law too much but would not allow drug dealing.

 

[CavLancer]

I doubt Ron White would support yer buddy's war, he's a bit more fond of freedom

Here ya go! Speaking on meth of all things. Like "Scotch guard" some things just work out right.

 

[Berzerker]

Whatever works for you Berzerker. If you stand in defense of meth there's no reply I can make that will make any difference.

Well thats a tough one, defend meth or an opiate popping murderous thug? Ironically forum rules probably prohibit me from defending meth while allowing this murderer's propaganda. Millions of people have used the drug without selling to children or appearing in your cherry picked line up of addicts. Not many drugs would be legal based on your standard. Hell, we're pumping corn syrup into millions of children. Your hero should be more worried about Pepsi than meth dealers lurking around the schoolyard.

I do have a prediction, if your hero doesn't resort to assassinating children I figure y'all will be seeing a spike in juvenile crime. Thats what happened here after Reagan got tough on crack cocaine. Many dealers recruited minors into the drug trade to reduce their exposure and gangs proliferated across the USA bringing both guns and drugs to a neighborhood near everyone. But its for the children, right?

I'm glad the allies had meth, I wouldn't want to see how WWII ended up if they didn't...

 

[CavLancer]

Don't think there are many dealers left. Did you happen to see the post above your Berzerker? You're gonna love it.

 

[Hygro]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte

"Human rights groups have documented over 1,400 killings allegedly by vigilante groups occurring in Davao between 1998 and May 2016; the victims were mainly drug users, petty criminals and street children."

 

[CavLancer]

Well that would be bad, if its true. Certainly not Duterte's instructions which he makes plain enough. Know that street kids are killed by police in Brazil...scary stuff.

 

[Berzerker]

Here ya go! Speaking on meth of all things. Like "Scotch guard" some things just work out right.

Imagine that, after admitting to using all sorts of drugs he found one he really doesn't like... He wants to legalize pot and use the tax proceeds to shut down meth labs because meth is killing too many people. Really? What are the stats, Ron? You do know this guy does his routines while drinking booze and smoking tobacco on stage? How many people have those drugs killed?

I dont know if it matters to you, but Ron didn't say he supports the vigilante star chamber system being run on a massive scale in your country. But he was asked about Oxycontin and the opiate epidemic and he said he doesn't know where Oxycontin comes from, but he does know meth comes from meth labs - they're all over the place. Thats brilliant... He got caught off guard by the interviewer and didn't know how to respond to the fact drugs he favors are killing way more people than meth. But he does like the Xanax...and pot

At least he topped that off with a good idea, unfortunately in conflict with his comments about meth. He said the jails are full of people because of victimless crimes, if there aint no victim there aint no crime. Well, there aint no victim if I put a little speed in my coffee and it aint no crime if someone sells me the meth and coffee. The crime is putting people in cages because of what someone else did. You know, like jailing people for using meth because someone allegedly sold some to a minor. For some reason that standard doesn't apply to drugs the rule makers use, like booze and tobacco (and Fentanyl).